Items cooldown

[scarr]

so the PKers get a huge advantage over those fighting animals/monsters? no

remember that the other side has the same penalties that you do... PK will probably be less affected than some people fear

 

Pkers, train aswel ..so why not ?, also In training you dont need to drink/heal/click/click evry 2 second , if you do then you dont train the right way.

[Brom]

Ive throught it through, It will take some balancing but once that is done, HECK YES! This will help with so much! I look forward to testing it.

[Ornitorrinco]

so the PKers get a huge advantage over those fighting animals/monsters? no

remember that the other side has the same penalties that you do... PK will probably be less affected than some people fear

 

 

Well, yes, because PK is essentialy different from fighting monsters. In PK there's the enmity, the teasing, the wish to show off etc.... because it's people against people. You only fight monsters to get stronger and to get the drops, so if you need to cast so many restores to kill a certain monster, it's not likely you'll be fighting lots of this monster. That's why you need to kill much stronger people, but not much stronger monsters. But anyway, I'm just a n00b

Edited November 29, 2005 by Ornitorrinco

[LadyWolf]

Im not sure if i understand it, but when you PK, u cant use srs all the time? that means you will die ?

Pretty much means no more continuous dissing then tp'ing out. if you drink an sr you have to wait 10 secs to drink another one, so on and so on.

 

Summoning is gonna be even slower and more exhaustive than it already is.

 

I just started getting into fighting (pking) and it is hard enough when Toomass and 3 others gang you (guess they thought I was gonna summon ) and you just diss to get breathing room. Now this will be impossible. I will continue to play, but looks like the door to fighting has just been closed, until we are all 500/500 a/d/p/c and carry thermals.

 

As far as manuing and such, it will drive prices back up after current supplies run out.

 

*sigh* I now regret taking power hungry...can we be compensated?

Edited November 29, 2005 by LadyWolf

[Kendai]

keday did u see a fight in kf?

did u see how donpedro hit with thermal?

i think no! he hit shivar 96 damage?

How much healt u got? can u handle?

u noobs shouldnt talk about fighting in pk if u never see one :angry2:

This is my point exactly. If DonPedro hits you with a thermal, how do you think you should survive that? Quite simply, you can't.

 

True, I don't PK. I certainly don't have the high levels required to survive. But I have witnessed higher level players PK with each other (like when I saw Surfy and SoAd7777 train up Fireballs when he reset, in Tahraji Desert. Then CG came and PKed little me first because I'm only a n00b ). You and I know the risks when we step into a PK area, plain and simple. Expect to die, especially if there are higher level players who are hungry for blood Remember, this system will affect the higher level PKers as well as the lower level. If you don't like it, train enough so that you're no longer lower level.

 

The point about alchemy/manufacuring: it will be slower to make items, but you get more experience per item. You no longer have to mass manufacture in order to level up. You would no longer have to deal with excess items that no one wants but are essential for training. You would thus have fewer items in the market. Even if the demand for these items remain steady (or, best possible scenario, they increase), prices will rise for those items because supply is lower. Dare I say, a more steady economy?

[Brom]

Whoa, slow down tiger. Ponder this:

Do you think Ent or others would add things to the game that were going to hurt it? Do you think that if this does not work out we cannot put it back how it was? Are you not willing to TRY something new? because that is what this is. TRY. As Ent clearly said we will be trying this for 1 month, afterwhich if it ends up bad, Do you think we will keep that bad aspect of the game? Do you have no faith in Entropy and the Developers. Gosh, some people.

 

Anyway I will not try to explain anything to you beyond that because in your heads your points way much more heavier than mine. I hope you will be smart enough to understand this is a TRY. Thank you.

 

Edit: Sorry, could not hold that in any longer.

Edited November 29, 2005 by Brom

[Kendai]

Kendai read Ent's post..he said as of right now there is not any added xp per item.... so longer to make less at the same xp per item.

 

Ah, then I misinformed myself. With so many replies to this thread, it is hard to keep track of what is truth and what is fiction. As I was reading through previous discussions of a cooldown, I thought that increased experience per item made was part of the deal. Apparently, no (or hopefully, not yet). I'm sorry for misinforming the rest of you :shame:

 

For now then... hang tight. I'm no longer sure how this would benefit. I still believe in supply vs. demand, and that with less supply comes higher prices. But if demand drops too (after all, PKers can't use up the items as quickly as they need to and thus have less need for them), then the same problems still exist, there will simply be a "smaller" economy with low supply and low demand, as opposed to now with high supply and average demand.

 

I can see your not a higher lvled fighter cause if you were you would know that He and SR' s depleet within a matter of minutes.... mass production is used because its needed to be able to lvl at the higher lvls... look at DP or Nit they need more then 5M to lvl 1 a or d level can you imagen how much he or sr's that would cost them? geuss not huh...

The problem with mass manufacturing is that there is too much supply for training items. HEs and SRs are at a relatively healthy price, because of the need for them by PKers. But for other items, such as armor or rings, they are not demanded in large masses by PKers and thus mass manufacturing them (in order to level up) ruins the prices because of high supply and little or no demand. HEs and SRs are not the problem in mass manufacturing; other items such as rings or armor are.

 

Just remember, this is only an experiment. Let's give Entropy his month of testing, and then suggest what can be fixed

Edited November 29, 2005 by Kendai

[ttlanhil]

Was the game broke? NO!

yes. the economy is broken. a vast reduction in product is required for manu. less needed for stuff like HE/SRs, sure, but there are problems and this is one measure towards fixing things

[Hyperion]

Whoa, slow down tiger. Ponder this:

Do you think Ent or others would add things to the game that were going to hurt it? Do you think that if this does not work out we cannot put it back how it was? Are you not willing to TRY something new? because that is what this is. TRY.

 

the delay thing wasn't a good idea either and i still think it isn't... altho i live with it nowadays doesn't mean i like it...the delays are still not fine tuned as they promesed us they would be... the times are still way to high for some items.... what makes you think this will be any difference? i give ent his 1 month testing if i dont like it after that, screw EL i am outta here...there are enough games to be found in this world heck i might even continu with my own text based online rpg...

 

hype

[Ornitorrinco]

i talk to my friends....... like 10 of them most 80/80+ att/def will quit.... with this u cant defend

u go in pk to death!

but i think most pk-ers will quit....

 

DONT DO THE UPDATE PLZ

If most pkers will quit with the change, then the harm to the pk system will not be an issue anymore. The pkers have to stay to try and give suggestions.

[thunderous]

i don't care about pking, but what would happend to the ppl who mixed stuff like HE's ?

There was no hint of the fruit delay, but who want to mix only 2 HE's in 10 sec - not me - or only for using it myself. So the market for it would be closed.

[WoodeH]

Was the game broke? NO!

yes. the economy is broken. a vast reduction in product is required for manu. less needed for stuff like HE/SRs, sure, but there are problems and this is one measure towards fixing things

 

The economy is broken because alot of people level in all skills.. Like PK'ers, they make there own HE + SR's.. this way it's cheaper for them, and so on and so forth..

 

But then again, this may help the Economy.. But will it help the Community?

 

If it's a TRIAL period.. Then I will TRY it.. But if it sticks.. I'll probs Leave, along with alot of other people.

[Alieksei]

Imagine you are a summoner and u want to make ur summon pots and ur SRs and ur life essences, in other words, if u aren't only a fighter or summoner and you're gonna make ur things to use yourself, u can't!! It will be impossible!

 

So, i'll have to buy all the items i need to use because if i dont, i wont be a summoner. Never. <_<

 

I dont like it at all. The principle of EL is work in several diferent ways. I wont work as a pot maker and alchemist anymore. I just will summon, fight and buy things. Its boring.

Edited November 29, 2005 by Alieksei

[WoodeH]

I agree.

 

For the newer people, they'll have to stick to just 1 Skill, otherwise they will never level at all.

 

This update wont benifit anyone..

[TooMass]

Here's my opinion:

 

This is an idea that's already been talked to death, and now is actually coming around soon. I believe Entropy already said that this will be the way it is for the first month, and after that, you'll be given the chance to speak out again.

 

So here's my suggestion - EVERYONE, give it that month. Certainly, it's gonna make people rethink their strategies in every skill - that's a GOOD thing, really. Is it going to be perfect? Probably not - but if we never give it the chance, we'll never know if it's better, or how to make it work better.

 

Fighters - sure, double-teaming may not be good, but maybe you guys would like to toss your forks instead of your dance moves?

 

Mages, Summoners - the biggest deal for you will be the potions, which means you may have to drink potions before you plan to. If you are casting/summoning in combat, you'll probably need to retime any strategy.

 

Harvesters - Probably won't be as effected by this, except if they carry out other skills.

 

Tradespeople (alch/manu/pot/craft) - biggest worry will be food, likely. Again, just retime your strategies, for the most part.

 

It will take getting adjusted to, but most of the people speaking out are people who've already been here through a lot of change - just stick it out a bit longer; it's not all gloom and doom.

 

Have u ever pked some1 that u r talking about "dance moves"?????i guess not so plz spare us those nonsence.....

[Cycloonx]

Hey toomass, like we said in gm, just give it a chance ... It might become more difficult and it might ask new strategies, but maybe you can invent new strategies with these things

 

Maybe when there come more items this will be better for the game.

 

Another thing is for summoning training ... It will take ages to train on it now because you use insane quantities of srs

Edited November 29, 2005 by Cycloonx

[The_Piper]

After reading this whole thread, i have just one question.

 

PKers complain about the risk to .....DIE in combat??

 

Do you always expect that the other one dies?

 

Piper

[Zaer]

wtf we dont complain about that piper, use your eyes... We complain about the fact that this would beneift only strong people, the weaker ones wouldnt even have a chance, we cant all afford to spend all our time on here so those that do would win always..

[duran]

sounds to me like the problem for pkers is the amount of damage done by weapons vs the armor effects and the amount of health that they can have.

 

basicly people die to fast...

 

that and when you walk into a pk map anyone can jump you, anyone. so if your a low level new char you risk being trashed by a high level veteran just for the hell of it...

 

the fix i see is for the dissengagement ring to work so that after its use, noone can attack you for x time. this wold allow you to still do the diss+teleport combo without having to carry multiple dissengagement rings...

 

still, im with piper:

PKers complain about the risk to .....DIE in combat??

[Cycloonx]

After reading this whole thread, i have just one question.

 

PKers complain about the risk to .....DIE in combat??

 

Do you always expect that the other one dies?

 

Piper

 

I was thinking the same -_-

 

But another thing like toomass said: You can't fight in this game without restore a lot, or we need more health, or we need better armor. At this point, toomass is right, but these are things that need to be tweaked out to get the best thing for the game

[Cycloonx]

I think when they Upgrade the health it would change in a positive way, like 10 health changed to 50 health ... You can let hit monsters harder (to equal old damage/health) and keep the beats of the players. I think you can survive easier with a restore/10secs and you wouldn't be killed in 2-3 hits

[Entropy]

i play Warcraft III, most of the maps... especialy DOTA( DEFEND OF THE ANCIENT)

its very cool...... various things...... weapons... etc

EL isnt Warcrft!

 

btw... arctic kill me so fast i hadnt time to use sr( 2 sec coolddown)

with 10 i think they can kill donpedro aswell

 

Pe ce server intrii? Sa te fac odata la DOTA.

[LadyWolf]

Ok here's a scenario to think about..suppose something like this happens after the cooldown is implemented.

 

umm ok lets say, dy,fb,donp,xanter and doc take me in to summon against scarr,logiscom,matess,toomass zaer..pretty even (except for my stats..i get two chims summoned..then i use 1 sr, which doesnt give me enough mana to summon another chim..meaning wait 10 more seconds..in which time, the other team has slaughtered the 2 chims i did eek out plus a couple of my guys, now they double or triple team me..i diss from one..but have to wait for 10 seconds to dis to get away from the next..in the mean time the first dis wore off and that person can attack again...

 

 

sure those that haven't been gangbanged in kf say "diss and tp out"..well you can only use a tp ring if fully diseangaged from battle..meaning if you have more than one person on you by the time you can dis from the second one the first dis has worn off..making it impossible to escape.

 

Im new to the pk aspect of this game..but I see what the big guys see..it will make it virtually impossible to escape if tagteamed.

[Entropy]

What I find really amazing is that the PKers have two opposite and contradictory issues with this new system:

 

Medium level PKer: "Omfg, omfg, now I can't flee from combat, so I am going to leave the game".

High level PKer: "Omfg, Omfg, I can't flee the combat so I am going to leave the game".

 

Perhaps you failed to understand that everyone will be subject to the same limitations? If you want to fight against a stronger person, the only obvious way to win is either to get better weapons/armors, and/or gang that person.

I think the cooldown is actually much better for the lower level players than for the high level players.

[The_Piper]

You cant , and piper ofcourse u DIE now and then, but the skill is trying not to die, and being a Elite player a.ka moi

 

lol, n00b!

 

I think, its your job now to find out how to be an elite player with the new system.

 

Thats what Entropy meant with one month test. Test it, find out the pros and cons and then, after one month, give him a feedback. Coz you cant only read a suggestion like that and judge it, it must be tested carefully.

 

To say it again, you all, pkers, manuers, alchemists and so on are now TESTERS!

 

Test the new system please for one month and then make suggestions.

 

And always keep in mind, this game is still beta. So changes will happen.

 

Piper