Crafter's Strike

[DrMabuse]

The prices for teleport, damage and disengagement rings + medallions are in my eyes too low.

 

examples:

- a bot sells VOTD rings for 65gc each

- some players are selling moon medallions for 180gc each

- ...i can continue this list but i am too lazy to search through a 160mb chatlog-file.

 

I am (crafting level 45) on strike. I am not crazy and do all the work (harvest ore, make bars + fire essences, make rings) for such low prices.

 

Other crafters are welcome to join the strike.

[sparhawk]

what is your idea of a good price?

[shenriss]

level 42 and only sell to friends or for guild use since a long time

 

need a lot of time/ingredients for win low money with the miss and cost of gem sander.

 

edit: it mean i join

Edited September 28, 2005 by shenriss

[dagon]

Im crafter Level 38 and i agree with you. I strike! This is rediculous prices for our hard work

[Pyewacket]

Agreed on this. I just hit 31 crafting, and i will be supplying guildies only for the next week from now. Then I will also be stopping supplies to them too.

 

Even the crafting quest costs more money to complete it than you get in terms of an actual reward! 500 gp for the book, then theres the rings...come ON! I'd rather have polished gems for the exp than waste the gp/time doing it if i had known there wasnt gonna be cheap gem papers at the end of it! Even ghrae said it is a good idea to use tele rings to complete it...MORE expense! Tsk tsk...

 

You did sterling work putting the quest together and gettin it working, well done, but lets just have a little perspective in regards the efforts of the crafters here. Potion makers get cheap wine, manu-ers have cheap leather....crafters have cheap clients..what the heck ???

 

So i am all in favour of the crafting strike, HANDS OFF MY RING!

[molime]

I'm in. I haven't been on market for a long time really. Only crafting I still do (level 45 crafting) is for close friends/guildmembers and the only selling I do is to one faithful customer who's still willing to pay a fair price.

 

So... easy to join, I was doing it anyway

[wolfmom1]

I have almost quit crafting, only make items for friends or guild members now, the prices are to low, and no discounts on sandpaper either.

 

I love crafting, but even if i would be crafting a lot, besides selling on the market for ridiculous low prices there is not even a place i can take my items too to sell.

 

I'll join the strike :angry2:

[Arnieman]

I'm not a crafter - I'm an alchemist/manufactor. I left market long ago because the prices were junk. So, I checked the market again recently - I almost cried, it's worse than ever. Something needs to be done when you can buy something far cheaper than it can be made.

[Derin]

Good luck with the strike.

 

Sometimes it will work, sometimes it will not. That is the true beauty of a free market.

[Acelon]

Agreed on this. I just hit 31 crafting, and i will be supplying guildies only for the next week from now. Then I will also be stopping supplies to them too.

 

Even the crafting quest costs more money to complete it than you get in terms of an actual reward! 500 gp for the book, then theres the rings...come ON! I'd rather have polished gems for the exp than waste the gp/time doing it if i had known there wasnt gonna be cheap gem papers at the end of it! Even ghrae said it is a good idea to use tele rings to complete it...MORE expense! Tsk tsk...

 

You did sterling work putting the quest together and gettin it working, well done, but lets just have a little perspective in regards the efforts of the crafters here. Potion makers get cheap wine, manu-ers have cheap leather....crafters have cheap clients..what the heck ???

 

So i am all in favour of the crafting strike, HANDS OFF MY RING!

202504[/snapback]

 

It was meant more for a crafting tutorial, not for cheap gem sanders.

[Mr.Mind]

I am not joining the strike.

Edited September 28, 2005 by Mr.Mind

[Derin]

but lets just have a little perspective in regards the efforts of the crafters here. Potion makers get cheap wine, manu-ers have cheap leather....crafters have cheap clients..what the heck ???

 

202504[/snapback]

 

Crafters will get little something as well, new items to make, *maybe* cheaper paper as long as you show a little good faith. And as for cheaper leather and such, that also meant that the prices went down a bit

Edited September 28, 2005 by Lord_Vermor

[Pyewacket]

Faith is in ready supply when i am not told that i can make more gp per second on lilacs than in crafting.

 

Nuff said anyways, i will wait n see the outcome(s), and just stockpile my wares for the time being.

[bkc56]

what is your idea of a good price?

10%-20% over the cost of buying the raw materials from NPCs perhaps?

[freeone3000]

I'd go for 10%-20% over cost of SELLING to the NPC's at this point.

 

I'm in.

 

Btw, yes, I can make rings at 12 craft... IP and WS at 70-80%. Not that bad, really.

Edited September 29, 2005 by freeone3000

[Entropy]

So, umm, who is ruining the economy? Isn't the bots price based on demand and offer? So if you make too many items, then yeah, they will be cheaper. It's called overproduction.

[ttlanhil]

It's called overproduction.

202614[/snapback]

caused by the massive amount of product required in order to gain levels.

I rather like the idea of making each item complex to make, the steps in smelting at an oven, turning coal into coke before you make your metals hot, wrapping wire around a rod then cut them to make chain links for you armour (that's how it's actually done)... too much work per item will mean people don't bother trying, but if you still gain similar levels of experience per unit of time, and just make less product... you get paid far better per hour (and since a suit of chainmail could take months to make IRL, it's not a cause to complain anyway )

 

re the quest: if it cost me 5k and didn't give a reward, I'd have still done it... I mean, it's something new to do! more fun that just more leveling through whatever

 

and re the strike: okay, I'll stop selling for a while as well

[Arnieman]

Quests - you do realize that from the very minute you first spawned on Isla Prima that however you chose to develop your character was completely up to you? I mean, the point of a quest in my opinion is to give your character some of the story, and to help you develop the character - not necessarily to give you cheap product for powerleveling. If that's what the quests mean to you, just don't do them. I don't think any of our quest writers want to waste our skill on apathetic players.

 

For you players that honestly go through the quests, participating in them, and doing them just to do the quest, no matter the reward (though some reward is always nice) - if the quests provide you with some entertainment, I believe that is what the quest writers write for.

 

Sorry, just had to add my piece.

[Ghrae]

I'm a top level crafter. And yes, the market for items is horrible. I *don't* make the base (silver, gold) rings because I simply don't have time between a full time real life job and moderating and the CEL website.

 

So I buy the base rings from guildies or friends and make the teleport, diss and damage rings. And lately, I can't make a profit. It sucks, I admit.

 

However, I don't believe in a strike either. It's a pretty face for price manipulation. It's a form of trying to control the market.

 

But what does it really do? It allows those who do NOT participate in the strike to find easy buyers. And it encourages generalists (those people who do a little of everything).

 

So at the end what is gained? Those who didn't join the strike have now sold more to the buyers and probably increased their levels due to demand (reducing their fail rate and thus increasing what profit they get). And increased the amount of generalists who now don't need to buy from those who have chosen to specialize in crafting.

 

So explain to me again how this helps?

 

Oh, and if you don't believe me, remember the alchemists strike? Half (or more) of my guild shot up with their alchemy levels and are now self sufficient, taking that many more buyers out of the alchemists market.

[LochnessLobster]

I feel your pain drmabuse. Although my crafting is -0- I have often thought that crafting would be the only skill worse than manufacturing as far as the market goes. You have my support for what it's worth.

[shenriss]

However, I don't believe in a strike either.  It's a pretty face for price manipulation.  It's a form of trying to control the market.

 

But what does it really do?  It allows those who do NOT participate in the strike to find easy buyers.  And it encourages generalists (those people who do a little of everything). 

 

So at the end what is gained?  Those who didn't join the strike have now sold more to the buyers and probably increased their levels due to demand (reducing their fail rate and thus increasing what profit they get).  And increased the amount of generalists who now don't need to buy from those who have chosen to specialize in crafting.

 

So explain to me again how this helps?

 

Oh, and if you don't believe me, remember the alchemists strike?  Half (or more) of my guild shot up with their alchemy levels and are now self sufficient, taking that many more buyers out of the alchemists market.

202704[/snapback]

 

you are right, remember the manu strike...

 

I craft (level 42) and manu (level 36: with god bless can do all exept tit axe) only for my guild use or friends, can't win money then i do it for an help for who i really like... there is 3 way for win money harvest lilacs (i don't do it, borring) or making HE to sell (i use all I make) or train on monster weaker than you...

 

EDIT: add some pontuation for be better understand

Edited September 29, 2005 by shenriss

[Pyewacket]

I aint knocking the quest writers, please dont think that I am. I am just wanting a fair deal for a trade ingame. I highly respect the developers of the game, they have done far more than I could have believed with this game, and I wouldnt know where to begin, despite having programming skills myself.

 

But they need the help of the community with regards bugtesting to ensure the quality of the product, hence this game is in beta etc etc.

I have merely highlighted what I see as not so much a bug, but a flaw in the way the game is currently going, and am being as faithful to the game by mentioning this as anyone who has submitted a bugreport.

 

I feel it is essential to encourage the trades within the game to ensure the spirit of the game isnt lost. Ok, so this appears to come across as ranting complaints that i cant make a profit from my crafting, but thats not what this is really about. It's the fact that we might as well all stop crafting and just stick to being harvesters and flower sellers which irks me, especially when such hard work HAS been put into the crafting trade on behalf of the developement team into making it a viable trade.

 

I just dont want this hard work you guys have put into it, being seen as a pointless exercise. The only analogy I can put forward is this...you are highly skilled developers working on the beta of a great game to get it eventually to the stage where it will pay off for you all (I assume, and I also recognise that you may well also do it for the love of the game too, but money will no doubt come into it at some point), so would it not irk you if some door to door wandering gypsy could make more money from selling lucky heather??

 

Woah...I really should stop ranting now....

[LadyWolf]

I have all but stopped crafting (lvl 31). I used to mak the base rings and polish gems for a couple of the top level crafters, but it's gotten to where I barely break even doing so. I tried my hand at actually making the rings, but there is noone to sell to at a decent profit.

 

Cheap sanders might bring the price down a bit, as did cheap wine and leather, but look at what the prices have dropped to now. When I started playing 8 months ago(approximately), diss rings sold for 100-120 each, now, we are lucky to get 75-80 for them. So I say, what could it hurt to give us a quest, or a way to get cheap sanders, hell, I'll even volunteer to write the quest if I'm given the ok to implement cheap sanders.

 

I am all in favor of trying to stabilize the market, not control it. Crafting is not the only trade that is hurting, manuers and alchemists and potion makers are still feeling the crunch. SR's used to be 25 gc + vial, 30 without, now they are down to 15 gc +vial, 20 without. Tit chain mail used to be 8 k, now down to 6 or 7 k, serps dropped from 9-10 k to 6-7 k. DE's (death essences) used to be 20gc, now down to 10-15 gc.The only thing that still holds steady is good old HE's, still at 5gc each.

 

I don't know if a strike will help, but I have stopped selling to anyone other than guildies and close friends. I mainly supply myself now.

 

I'll join strike.

Edited September 29, 2005 by LadyWolf

[Arnieman]

Strange, I remember when the Alchemist Strike took place - HE were consistently on market for 3 gc - same amount as the magic shop payed. MOST essence could only fetch the cost to make them.

 

So we struck. Sure, there were the opportunists who took advantage of the market then, but they were making the piddling prices we were then rejecting. Eventually, the prices rose again, and we agreed as a union of alchemists and clients not to accept the usfair prices people were demanding.

 

If there's a bright spot to the market at all, it's that HE can still fetch a decent price.

[DrMabuse]

Thanks for your attention.

 

Attention is one goal of the strike.

 

Second goal is to inform about a serious economic unfairness.

 

Here are some base prices for things used in crafing:

 

Silver Bars - 40gc

Gold Bars - 45gc

Gem Sanding Paper - 10gc

Fire Essence - 3-4gc

Water Essence - 8gc (i think)

 

To make 1 Silver Ring: 2 Silver Bars + 3 Fire Essences == 92gc

To make 1 Polished Diamond: 30gc Gem Sanders + 16 gc Water Essences

 

Total cost of VOTD Ring:

Silver Ring 92gc + Polished Diamond 46gc + 1 Fire Essence 4gc == 142gc

(or 138gc if I would by fire essences for 3gc each)

 

If a bot sells VOTD rings for 65gc, I am wondering at which price buys this bot VOTD rings. 20gc? 25gc? 30gc?

 

Think about it.

Edited September 29, 2005 by DrMabuse