Player Rep

[WiLdCaRd]

Ok first and foremost, it seems some of my other Polls were locked because people (i.e Forum Mods) misunderstood the intentions behind them. So let me clear this up right from the start, this is NOT an attack on anyone, and I`m NOT having a dig at anyone,this is just a suggestion to try and help cut down on the recent increase in Mod Abuse CLAIMS ingame, and on the Forums, it is also my intention to see if people agree with what I`m thinking. So I`d ask people NOT to flame this Poll and thread, I didn`t post in Flames, because it ISN`T one, so please, dont turn it into one.......thanks.

 

Ok, the basic idea is that Players have one or two Reps they can talk to about anything regarding what they feel is an abuse either by a player, or by a Mod, like a lawyer if you like, they relate the story to the Player Rep, who then SPEAKS to a Mod, or the Player. By talking to someone else 1st, part of the anger and frustration is difussed,thus cutting down on the slanging matches flying back and forth. Anyone that spends anytime here on the forums, knows as well as I do, there has been a HUGE increase in Abuse reports being filed. I`m lucky that I`ve never felt the need to file a report of Abuse, but lots of people do feel upset or angry about things that happen ingame, or indeed even here on the forums. This is also a way of players being able to talk freely without fear of being punished or banned, it has to be said, that with everything going on lately, some people dont feel comfortable talking to Mods anymore, again, this is NOT a dig,I`m just saying what people feel. We have Player Reps for the other aspects in game, so why not have a Player Rep to deal with complaints, a Complaints Dept if you like.

 

We`re all adults here,and most things can be sorted quickly and quietly without everything blowing up on the forums, or in the game, IF we talk and discuss things as adults. Everyone can get emotional once in awhile, but we have to remember here, although a very good one, it is just a GAME,its not real life,sometimes people lose track of that. The Reps need to be people that Players AND Mods respect and trust, they need to listen to both sides of the story and with sound judgement decide after hearing both sides, if there really is a reason to file a report to Ent or Roja. They need to remain calm, and be able to calm a situation down so people can talk clearly so that ALL the facts can be gathered. After thats collected, they can discuss with the Player or Mod being accused of abuse, either here on the forums in PM ONLY, or ingame, in PM ONLY, there is no need to broadcast to the EL world whats going on. I`m sure Roja and Ent have enough to do without having to sort out Mod/Player abuse complaints, so this is just a suggestion of how we can help each other and make the world a better place to live in

 

Thanks for your time

Edited May 4, 2005 by WiLdCaRd

[Placid]

I don't feel it would be any different for a player to speak to a 'rep' or a mod. If a 'rep' was assigned, that person would still be more on the 'side' of the nh's/mods/admins than the players.

 

I think it's pointless, if people have a serious concern, they should approach Roja or Entropy directly - something that's been said many times before.

[WiLdCaRd]

I don't feel it would be any different for a player to speak to a 'rep' or a mod. If a 'rep' was assigned, that person would still be more on the 'side' of the nh's/mods/admins than the players.

 

I think it's pointless, if people have a serious concern, they should approach Roja or Entropy directly - something that's been said many times before.

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If they are more on one side than the other, then they`re NOT the right person for the job, they need to be 50/50 all the way. And the whole idea is to cut down on the unnessasary reports being filed. And as I also stated, a lot of people dont feel comfortable talking to Mods anymore, this is way for those people to be heard in a fair way.

[Placid]

It'll never happen. We're all human and people most have loyalties somewhere.

 

I'd like to know why people fell why they can't talk to me - i've never done anything that would warrant antisocial response.

[Roja]

Hm..well, essentially it's the same thing as mods. However I do understand that some people might be uncomfortable talking with other people, and at many times a middleman is actually a good thing.

 

Although, anything that can cut down on the work that *I* have to do with the community is a good thing. Most of these problems can be solved by yourselves. I remember at one time Jezebelle even talked about creating a counceling service in game. I'm all for mature people taking a step forward and becoming leaders like this. You don't have to be a newbie helper/mod to be a leader.

 

So, you may certainly do this if you wish..however, it will be done unofficially, at your own latitude. I say unofficial because I cannot be bothered by taking time to manage, take care of problems, organize things, nor can I be held responsible for the outcomes and/or risks involved. I don't want to hear about them.

Besides..ideally something like this (people helping people), should take place by default. It's just something that should be innate in a community.

[Lachesis]

I think what wildcard means is some kind of arbitrator. The most important thing about him or her would be that both parties have to agree on the person that is to take up that position. Thus it cannot be a single delegated person, but rather someone chosen in the particular case. This person usually will be one of an informal group that has a high reputation as smart and calm people with excellent knowledge of human nature. In practice, I am quite sure that this group will have big intersections with the newbie helper and moderation group, since their jobs share their requirements, and the part that doesn't intersect will probably form a good cadre. I'm just stiltedly explaining common sense I think, but maybe some expatiation helps in understanding the topic.

 

The thing that may need improvement is that we only have two arguing parties, and nobody takes up a really unbiased arbitrator's position (dodges bashings), or this person remains relatively ignored. What we need is a mechanism that ensures that there will be such a person if needed, even if the parties cannot agree upon someone, and that he or she gets a little power, just enough to be heard, like being able to lock the respective thread*.

 

With regards

Lachesis

 

*) I know this forum is not designed for supporting this, but I think he or she could just PM someone with the respective permissions** to carry this out for them. It's not intended to be really executed very often anyway.

**) If forum moderation refuses, as a last resort, this could be Roja or Entropy. I'm pretty sure especially Roja wouldn't torpedo an arbitrator since s/he's someone trying to free her time for more important things than those quarrels.

[WiLdCaRd]

Lachesis you pretty much banged the nail on the head, I got lost with some of your fancy wording, but I think you got the basic idea of what I had in mind. I`m not saying that these "Reps" should be given any official powers as such, for as I said, they`re not intended to be "Mods", or N/H either. Thankyou Roja for your responce, its good to know that your behind the basic idea of this.

 

Placid I`m sure lots of people will happily chat to you about a problem, I personally dont have a problem with any Mods, as long as they`re fair and they listen to what people have to say. And yes, if there IS a serious problem, then it does need to be brought to Roja or Ents attention, but what I`m suggesting could cut down on a lot of unnessasary hassles for both of them. Look through the Abuse section, esp the last couple of weeks, how many posts are there screaming "Mod Abuse" ?? Quite a few, the idea here is to work for both sides, players AND Mods, to reduce the amount of grief you guys and girls get, but to also give the players the reassurance they ARE being heard and that someone WILL put forwards their case should the need arise.

 

At the end of the day, all I`m trying to do, is to cut down on all the bitching and moaning from both sides, so we can all get on with enjoying the game. I wouldn`t expect the EL team to make these "Reps" official, but it would be nice IF the idea went ahead, that they could acknowledge they`re there for a reason, and support it from afar, we all know you have enough to deal with,without adding to that work load.

 

As I said, these people need to be well known, unbiased, and well liked by as many people ingame as possible, so if anyone would like to be put forward, or if anyone has someone in mind, please feel free to add your thoughts

 

Thanks for your time

 

Edit: I should just point out, that they cannot be from the Mod team, because that kinda defeats the whole idea

Edited May 3, 2005 by WiLdCaRd

[rasberrybeard]

I think we do need something... but this just doesn't seem like an effective way. I think just killing the mods and reinstating new ones might work xD.

[Tanyia]

I think we do need something... but this just doesn't seem like an effective way. I think just killing the mods and reinstating new ones might work xD.

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Killing them all? That sounds like mass murder to me

[Ruln]

In an ideal world you would actually have thre aribtrators for each case. All three would hear the case and then each would decide which side was in the right with the majority getting to write up the conclussion.

[Lachesis]

Erm, let's not make it too complicated. Usually there's such a person anyway, the point is giving him/her some additional support.

[rasberrybeard]

Killing them all? That sounds like mass murder to me

 

FINALLY! Someone who understand me! :lol:

[Derin]

This happens a lot in the game. People come to different people for various reason. That is part of the in-game respect some people enjoy. In the older guilds, such respect is usually found among the leaders of those guilds.

 

So finding someone to speak 'for you' isn't new or roiginal, but fairly common practice (at least to my knowledge).

 

So appointing one (or more) such player rep's in-game (unofficially, of course) could be useful to those who feel that they need such a service.

However, the role is to argue a point, while still obeying all the rules. In the forums, this will probably mean that the arguments will go thru PMs.

We still have rules, and the player rep will by no means be above those rules.

[Ruln]

I wasn't trying to complicate things, just make them fair. One person is never going to be fair. The odds of three people coming to a fair decision is much better.

 

BTW, ombudsman/ombudsperson is the term used for this sort of person/people in many worplaces in the US.

[Aislinn]

I agree the forums are filled with mod abuse claims recently, however when you look at them, how many were actually determined to be mod abuse? Just because somebody is screaming mod abuse, doesn't make it so.

 

And it seems that the loudest screamers have the least to scream about. I mean come on people, of course the mods need to follow the rules as well. But to analyze and debate for a week whether a player should have been kicked to another channel, or muted or just warned 5 times after spamming/being off topic/insulting the mod on duty is just witchhunting and jumping on the mod bashing bandwagon.

 

Somehow there needs to be a way to determine a legitimate abuse claim from the abundance of frivilous/revenge claims that are coming these days. Now if somebody can find a way to get rid of the nonsense and only let the legitimate claims come through, I'm all ears.

[Learner]

I agree the forums are filled with mod abuse claims recently, however when you look at them, how many were actually determined to be mod abuse?  Just because somebody is screaming mod abuse, doesn't make it so.

 

And it seems that the loudest screamers have the least to scream about.  I mean come on people, of course the mods need to follow the rules as well.  But to analyze and debate for a week whether a player should have been kicked to another channel, or muted or just warned 5 times after spamming/being off topic/insulting the mod on duty is just witchhunting and jumping on the mod bashing bandwagon.

 

Somehow there needs to be a way to determine a legitimate abuse claim from the abundance of frivilous/revenge claims that are coming these days.  Now if somebody can find a way to get rid of the nonsense and only let the legitimate claims come through, I'm all ears.

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Charge a $ fee for mod abuse posts :evil:

 

:

[WiLdCaRd]

But to analyze and debate for a week whether a player should have been kicked to another channel, or muted or just warned 5 times after spamming/being off topic/insulting the mod on duty is just witchhunting and jumping on the mod bashing bandwagon.

 

This is the problem I was hoping wouldn`t come up, but I should`ve known better, this is NOT designed to be a witchhunt, and it certainly ISN`T jumping on the Mod bashing bangwagon!! This is WHY I`ve put forward this suggestion to stop just that!! In most countries, most people have the right to a "fair trial", I`m just saying that why not use that here? It shouldn`t take a week to debate anything, once both sides of the story have been heard, a decision can be made if the complaint should be taken furthur, or if the complaint is nipped in the bud there and then. If there is an inbetween, the chances are it wont result in a slanging match between the two parties involved, it`ll somewhat defuse the situation.

 

Somehow there needs to be a way to determine a legitimate abuse claim from the abundance of frivilous/revenge claims that are coming these days. Now if somebody can find a way to get rid of the nonsense and only let the legitimate claims come through, I'm all ears.

 

Thats what I`m trying to do here

[Aislinn]

My comments were designed for this comment you said in your original post.

,this is just a suggestion to try and help cut down on the recent increase in Mod Abuse ingame, and on the Forums,

If you look at that recent spurt of mod abuse you are saying exists, you will see that in reality there is NOT a recent increase of mod abuse, rather there is a recent increase of mod abuse claims. Which is not the same thing at all, and you stating it in those words just creates a false impression of what is or isn't happening ingame. These claims have been proven to be untrue.

[Lyanna]

Well... getting back to the topic at hand, let's look at it closely. I presume that there are certain qualities this rep/arbitrator will need:

 

1) Impartiality (fair to everyone)

2) Levelheadedness (cool temper)

3) Articulacy (speaks and presents well)

4) Approachability (easy to speak to; good listener)

5) Incisiveness (able to see clearly to the heart of the matter)

6) Justice (goes for what's right, not what's convenient)

7) Courage (able to handle emotional and peer pressure)

 

- Who fits this kind of bill?

 

 

Other issues to think about are:

1) Will players actually turn to these Reps, or would they prefer to fight their own cases? Or, will they initially leave it to the Reps, but then butt in because they can't control their emotions? (ie. Will the Reps be used?)

 

2) Will players and mods abide by the last decisions of these arbitrators/reps? Or will they seek to circumvent the decision and still fight on? (ie. Will the Reps be effective?)

 

-Lyn-

Edited May 3, 2005 by Lyanna

[Ghrae]

And what happens when the player goes to a rep / arbitrater and that rep / arbitrater tells them that there is no problem.

 

Mods get lots of #abuse and #help_me calls about bag jumping. It's not a crime, but people report it anyway. So if they take this sort of call to the arbitrater and the arbitrater explains the situation but can't help the player then what? The player goes to whom? A mod? If they can go to a mod, then why do they need the arbitraters?

 

I'm sorry but I see everyday players complaining about things that are legal or not a problem and then threatening "Fine! I'll go email Entropy". I don't see how adding a arbitrater will help the situation. Except by misleading new players into thinking that the arbitraters have some sort of power to make things happen.

[Aislinn]

I'm sorry but I see everyday players complaining about things that are legal or not a problem and then threatening "Fine!  I'll go email Entropy". 

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As I see it, THIS ^^^^^ is the "problem at hand", not who fits the bill to be a rep.

[Placid]

And what happens when the player goes to a rep / arbitrater and that rep / arbitrater tells them that there is no problem.

 

Mods get lots of #abuse and #help_me calls about bag jumping.  It's not a crime, but people report it anyway.  So if they take this sort of call to the arbitrater and the arbitrater explains the situation but can't help the player then what?  The player goes to whom?  A mod?  If they can go to a mod, then why do they need the arbitraters?

 

I'm sorry but I see everyday players complaining about things that are legal or not a problem and then threatening "Fine!  I'll go email Entropy".  I don't see how adding a arbitrater will help the situation.  Except by misleading new players into thinking that the arbitraters have some sort of power to make things happen.

158785[/snapback]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Lyanna, your post was perfect and to the point. But are you not stating that the ombudsman needs to be the....perfect person?

 

I think you are

[WiLdCaRd]

If you look at that recent spurt of mod abuse you are saying exists, you will see that in reality there is NOT a recent increase of mod abuse, rather there is a recent increase of mod abuse claims. Which is not the same thing at all, and you stating it in those words just creates a false impression of what is or isn't happening ingame. These claims have been proven to be untrue.

 

Opps, sorry, I meant to put "claims" , but I guess I missed it, my apologies!!

[NitageR]

"No I think the Mods in EL are enough" - my vote.

 

[Aislinn]

Opps, sorry, I meant to put "claims" , but I guess I missed it, my apologies!! 

158991[/snapback]

Maybe you would like to edit your original post then so that everyone knows what you meant to say? And what the situation here really is?