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Dugur

Remove PP buying

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a good idea would be depletable resources so theres less resources around to find nexus removals on :)

 

Sure, bring that up again, see how much income you'll be getting from your harvester alt if that ever gets implemented. Not to mention that subsequently you, your brother and a few others will have to bid even more insane amounts of gc for the nexus removals that ARE in game than you now already do.

 

You insist on coming up with ideas that benefit you and a minority of the current EL playerbase, but they will only make the shit even bigger for a vast majority, and most of all for future players and people who are just starting out in EL.

 

not really, if people have to go around for resources that would decrease the amount of harver alts, less gc comes in game by NPC and less Gc gets sold for $, thats good for all EL.

rosto prices would go down, $ -> Gc rate would go down making it more attractive to buy from shop and sell in-game, good for radu and the development of this game, no?

 

and i argued with someone about removing pp buying, at first its "whats best for the game" but later it changed to "its best for me"

just cause most of the pkers are stronger then LION doesnt mean u should screw them over just cause they do buy pp and you dont.

 

besides, we have caps, its still possible to make a strategic attribute build to fight, someone else just spended more time and work then you on maxing them all.

afaik most of you can harvest, including hydro. so why not all go harv, find some nexus removals for eachother and join the pp buying club :lurker:

 

at the bolded part: thats not really true, its much more fun and exciting to go out and look for resources then sit on your ass staring at the same ore couple hours a day

quite frankly, it might increase the playerbase. (didnt radu say something about reducing mini-harv events or remove them if resources get depletable?) sounds like a win for all.

Edited by Infamous

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just cause most of the pkers are stronger then LION doesnt mean u should screw them over just cause they do buy pp and you dont.

 

Wonderfully shortsighted AND incorrect on multiple points.

 

The moment you show me you are willing to look at this from outside your own box, maybe I'll try give you a worthy answer.

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Dont need to remove PP buying, just move any combat related bonuses from cross attributes to the relavent skill

 

Cross attributes can still determine Emu, Health, Mana, Reduced research time etc but current combat bonuses would be moved

 

Ie: Dex > Att

Reac > Def

Charm > summon

 

Would also have the added bonus of skills like magic would 100% depend on the mages skill level and not the number of neg perks they have taken to place PP's into attributes

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really, if people have to go around for resources that would decrease the amount of harver alts, less gc comes in game by NPC and less Gc gets sold for $, thats good for all EL.
And it would increase the prices of SRs/HEs.
rosto prices would go down, $ -> Gc rate would go down making it more attractive to buy from shop and sell in-game, good for radu and the development of this game, no?
People would not train as much (i mean, most people, not the top fighters who makes ridiculous amount of gc to buy pps AND/OR sell for $), therefore people would not lose much rostos.
and i argued with someone about removing pp buying, at first its "whats best for the game" but later it changed to "its best for me"

just cause most of the pkers are stronger then LION doesnt mean u should screw them over just cause they do buy pp and you dont.

Yes, people like me (hey i am LION member now? tell that to the LION folks who attack me in KF :lurker:), Liquid, Korrode, Senzon, are all LION members. :) To be fair, the few people who defend pp buying are usually pp buyers.
besides, we have caps, its still possible to make a strategic attribute build to fight, someone else just spended more time and work then you on maxing them all.
Yes, much strategy, just get pick points, use it randomly for attributes and you get an uber char. Btw, there was a post of some pp buyer on this thread showing that he could not even know what toughness cross attribute was for, that i can call "strategic" char building.
afaik most of you can harvest, including hydro. so why not all go harv, find some nexus removals for eachother and join the pp buying club :)
You know that harvesting get MUCH less gc than monster fighting. I would not even discuss the exp, because 25x or so the amount of exp per hour is ridiculous.

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just cause most of the pkers are stronger then LION doesnt mean u should screw them over just cause they do buy pp and you dont.

 

Wonderfully shortsighted AND incorrect on multiple points.

 

The moment you show me you are willing to look at this from outside your own box, maybe I'll try give you a worthy answer.

 

right back at you, im thinking about EL as a whole, not just "oh pp buyers cant be beat by sitting on my ass doing nothing every day, we must remove pp buying"

nice effort involved VS gain you got there, spend loads of time developing your char and get screwed by someone who thinks they should beat someone who spends more time, more effort and more gc/money on his char development.

 

bronze swords was one thing, thats just impossible to survive if multiple gang up on you with that, but this? its easy to beat pp buyers, there are maybe 3-4? all in different guilds, mostly enemies.

 

after this whats next? they will spend gc/money on items like orange spam gear, remove that too? then bronze swords, lower it again? after that eva/acc pots? can remove those too

but no, then they have more gc to spend on a/d/p/c/r/i/v pots, oh well remove those too. where does it end?

 

you cant tell me this isnt suggested for own personal gain, its available to you too after all. its not like all the pp buyers outnumber you and help eachother all the time.

hell, i got most of them on counters multiple times, rusik/kgxjeff/ATA/AMAR/Talloth/Anthony/Force/ulubatli, all you need is a strong guildie and common sense (use summoning? ranging? engineering? mages?) even 1 on 1 works with some strategy and luck :)

 

one time piiia and nimbus gave me alot of mines, so i decided to use them in pk. we were waiting there for LION, so i put them down before they came in.

guess what happened? they all died cause of the mines, took some allies/guildies in the blasts but everyone died without fighting, you could say i killed them all alone, sounds selfish, but they all died to the mines i placed after all. i didnt gain anything from it, but hey, thats PK.

see where im going? with the right means you can kill just about anything.

too expensive? should be no problem, since if there are suggestions to make pk less expensive theres always the non-pkers argueing against it.

but no, you have to find something that benefits you more then the rest who worked harder on their stats.

 

Lorck, theres so much wrong about your arguments.

1st, why would people train less? cause sr/He get more expensive? price drop of rosto covers for that, and isnt that good for the mixers? win-win for both, mixers make more gc, fighters spend less for rosto's and able to afford the rise in price of Sr/He.

 

2nd, it was originally suggested by a LION member, read the thread before posting. and the people suggesting to remove it are mostly the people too lazy to put in some work to beat others ^^ (does it even matter that pp buyers defend it? like their opinion doesnt count rofl)

 

3rd, thats what we call charbuyers Lorck, welcome to EL :lurker: besides, you dont get max attributes in a month or so, it takes years. so randomly spending them wont work, till you max all you have to spend wisely

 

4rd, if you are gonna argue, use some valid points. the last one didnt prove anything at all.

just to point it out to you, notice how i mentioned harvesting hydro and hopefully find some nexus removals? you dont need to spend much gc for that, the removals you find are free, you dont have to pay for the hydro either, indirectly you do cause of the S2E, but the exp covers for that, trade-off between gc/exp?

 

and we all know its harvester alts who sell Gc, soooo yeah.. if harvesting really was less gc then everyone would have a fighter alt to make and sell gc.

next time, try to quote and give valid arguements back, do some research and use the knowledge you gained.

Edited by Infamous

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right back at you, im thinking about EL as a whole, not just "oh pp buyers cant be beat by sitting on my ass doing nothing every day, we must remove pp buying"

nice effort involved VS gain you got there, spend loads of time developing your char and get screwed by someone who thinks they should beat someone who spends more time, more effort and more gc/money on his char development.

 

 

Wonderfully shortsighted AND incorrect on multiple points again. You suggest that I, or any of the other people that have reached the allaround top 50, and of which the majority has bought NEXUS, but not pickpoints, just sit on our asses doing nothing every day?

 

So I'll repeat:

The moment you show me you are willing to look at this from outside your own box, maybe I'll try give you a worthy answer.

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Wonderfully shortsighted AND incorrect on multiple points again. You suggest that I, or any of the other people that have reached the allaround top 50, and of which the majority has bought NEXUS, but not pickpoints, just sit on our asses doing nothing every day?

 

So I'll repeat:

The moment you show me you are willing to look at this from outside your own box, maybe I'll try give you a worthy answer.

 

its not shortsighted, and no boxes involved. you got me the reply i needed :lurker:

allaround top 50

so if you spend most time developing other skills then fighting, you should be able to beat someone who spends his time only on developing his fighter skills?

that makes no sense, so if anyones in a box, its you.

different skills give different advantages, if you picked allround, and want to compete with the top fighters, then you picked the wrong skills to level, should have focused on fighting.

 

what you are saying is basicly the same as a ballet dancer fighting a heavyweight boxer, should have same chances to win in a fight. why? no clue, to you that makes sense it seems, different occupations but still the balerina should be able to K.O the boxer in his own game :)

Edited by Infamous

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Lorck, theres so much wrong about your arguments.

1st, why would people train less? cause sr/He get more expensive? price drop of rosto covers for that, and isnt that good for the mixers? win-win for both, mixers make more gc, fighters spend less for rosto's and able to afford the rise in price of Sr/He.

People don't die often, so usually rosto is not a factor in the consideration of training costs.
2nd, it was originally suggested by a LION member, read the thread before posting. and the people suggesting to remove it are mostly the people too lazy to put in some work to beat others ^^ (does it even matter that pp buyers defend it? like their opinion doesnt count rofl)
Nah, its not lazyness, and of course, you cry that you don't have money for pk, monster training doesn't make you enough gc (ROFL) and then you buy pps for millions, great. Btw, who cares if the thread starter was a LION member (i thought DUGUR was prkl member, that was the tag i saw him on kf.
3rd, thats what we call charbuyers Lorck, welcome to EL :) besides, you dont get max attributes in a month or so, it takes years. so randomly spending them wont work, till you max all you have to spend wisely
Nah, you don't. If you have a huge load of pps it doesn't matter much how you spent your pps. You still have a much better char than the others without thinking (and without knowing exactly what you are doing).
4rd, if you are gonna argue, use some valid points. the last one didnt prove anything at all.

just to point it out to you, notice how i mentioned harvesting hydro and hopefully find some nexus removals? you dont need to spend much gc for that, the removals you find are free, you dont have to pay for the hydro either, indirectly you do cause of the S2E, but the exp covers for that, trade-off between gc/exp?

Yes, i have being harvesting tons and tons of stuff (i harvest more than i do any other stuff in EL, because of RL, no, its not because fighting is "expensive", this is ridiculous imo) and never got any nex removal stone. And about the s2e stuff, you know it takes MUCH, MUCH more time to make the bars and all, than to just kill yetis and with the drops buy the swords... And yes, i have done both, kill yetis (after the caps & yeti gc reduction) and made steel bars, yeti killing is way much faster hands down.
and we all know its harvester alts who sell Gc, soooo yeah.. if harvesting really was less gc then everyone would have a fighter alt to make and sell gc.

next time, try to quote and give valid arguements back, do some research and use the knowledge you gained.

Maybe before the mini events, etc. And i rarely see harvesters announcing gc for sale on black market, its mostly fighters. Btw, your arguments are not even valid to begin with... Edited by Lorck

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I do not think that PP should be removed for my sake, it should be removed for the games sake.

 

I believe that PP buying is one of the reasons why the number of players in this game went down, and I'll try to explain why.

 

Even though I do not PK, I think PK makes or brakes this game. Because everything comes down to fighting and making things needed while fighting. If players are less willing to spend money while PK'ing there will be less PK. So I think that the main reason for all the "PK is dead" threads is that people are not willing to spend their money in PK. And why would that be? It's not like fighters have no money, on higher lvl's fighting is the best profit. (and otherwise look at marketplace which kind of players place the highest bids) I suspect that PK'ers would be more willing to spend on PK if PP buying would not exist.

 

The key word in this is competitive, every fighter wants the best possible build to be competitive, meaning that everybody who really wants to be a force to be reckoned with in PK faces a future of endless grinding for GC.

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you cant say my arguement arent good enough if yours dont make sense to begin with :pickaxe:

 

do you have the statistics to see how much people die and lose rost? no, so where are you getting your info from?

you yourself say pk is expensive, the rest of the pker/yeti training community agrees with me, so its just arguements to help better the game, positive and constructive feedback is different then crying Lorck, look up the difference on google, might help you :)

 

if its not lazyness what is it then? they are willing to work hard to beat those pp buyers? doesnt seem like it, they want to continue doing fighting unrelated skills and beat the people who spend most if not all of the day fighting. shows they arent willing to spend time to work on the skill they wanna own in =lazyness.

 

ill say it again, how do you get those loads of pp? by pp buying, do you get those in a month? no, you spend years to get them, will anyone with common sense put pp randomly if they might have to do with that build for a couple more months till they can spend more pp? no. come on, your smarter then this.

 

but while you make them you have chances to find Nexus removals (helps your pp buying if you want to fight better) enrichment stones, binding stones, rostogols, attribute removals, gc for free with mini events and other random events. and you completely fail to see that theres always things to harvest, but there arent always yeti's to make gc from.

if it really was that much easier then why does everyone fight and buy their Gc? if it was as easy as you said no1 in their right mind would spend 1000s $ on Gc.

you already said you did the yeti killing on Test with no1 around to occupy the spawns, i wish that was possible on main, lol i even offered radu $ to change the spawns :pickaxe:

 

only Senzon and Smurf as fighters sold Gc, but they buy too. that should say something, mostly its small amount unlike the millions mixers sell.

my arguements arent invalid, i've been around long enough to know how things work, in black market and in-game, maybe you should spend a few more weeks in EL before saying things that dont even make sense.

 

Nah, you don't. If you have a huge load of pps it doesn't matter much how you spent your pps

thats 1 example of things that dont make sense. i said earlier why.

People don't die often, so usually rosto is not a factor in the consideration of training costs.

another 1, you said yourself you spend most your time harvesting, so how would you know how much people die? i dont either, but radu is happy with the rosto losses atm. should say enough.

Maybe before the mini events, etc.

again, a false arguement. Learner (a developer of the game/admin/mod/guy with server access) or however you want to call it has said its because of harvester alts.

 

theres no point in saying someone elses arguements arent valid if yours dont make sense and are being proven wrong by various sources in the first place.

again, Welcome to EL Lorck, spend some time learning theg ame again, alot has changed, from about 90+% of the convo's you have it seems you are stuck in the past, always bringing up the past. you need to live and learn in the present if you want to argue about things that happen now.

 

edit: and it definatly isnt good for the game, does anyone want to see all their years of hard work go down the drain just cause someone lower, focusing on other skills says its best for them? no, people quit for far less then this, remember how much people quit with something as simple as mini-events?

this would make most of the top 50 a/d quit if theres no compensation, how is that good for pk? pk would get more dead, and we'd have more people who only train instead of pking, atleast with filling the attr cap people get the feeling they own enough to go pk, without it, people would just keep training and training till they are so far above everyone elses a/d that pp buying isnt needed.

Edited by Infamous

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do you have the statistics to see how much people die and lose rost? no, so where are you getting your info from?

another 1, you said yourself you spend most your time harvesting, so how would you know how much people die? i dont either, but radu is happy with the rosto losses atm. should say enough.

People should not die often while training. People die while training if (1) they are fighting monsters stronger than they should have fighting AND/OR (2)they are careless/incompetent/n00b and can't control the char properly AND/OR (3) they have lag (or because they got grued).

 

I have no empathy for those who dies for reasons (1) and (2), if you die for reason (3) you should get a better internet connection. :pickaxe: So yeah, people should not die often while training, that was my point, rosto costs should not be a huge factor in training costs.

if its not lazyness what is it then? they are willing to work hard to beat those pp buyers? doesnt seem like it, they want to continue doing fighting unrelated skills and beat the people who spend most if not all of the day fighting. shows they arent willing to spend time to work on the skill they wanna own in =lazyness.
No, nobody argued here that mixers should pwn fighters in combat and they still would not pwn fighters in combat even if the fighters can't buy pps. Fighters have (or should have) higher a/d and higher OA than all the rest, they naturally have more PPs than everyone else;
ill say it again, how do you get those loads of pp? by pp buying, do you get those in a month? no, you spend years to get them, will anyone with common sense put pp randomly if they might have to do with that build for a couple more months till they can spend more pp? no. come on, your smarter then this.
If you have 40 or more extra pps, it doesnt matter how badly you spent your pps (only if you do crazy stuff like getting excavator perk), you will still have a huge advantage against those who did not have 40 extra pps.
but while you make them you have chances to find Nexus removals (helps your pp buying if you want to fight better) enrichment stones, binding stones, rostogols, attribute removals, gc for free with mini events and other random events.
Factor whatever you want in, fighters still generate WAY MORE gc (again not talking about exp) than everyone else hands down.
and you completely fail to see that theres always things to harvest, but there arent always yeti's to make gc from.

if it really was that much easier then why does everyone fight and buy their Gc? if it was as easy as you said no1 in their right mind would spend 1000s $ on Gc.

you already said you did the yeti killing on Test with no1 around to occupy the spawns, i wish that was possible on main, lol i even offered radu $ to change the spawns :pickaxe:

Funny that when radu asked if the spawns should be changed you was one of the first to criticize it because of lowering the drops. You want everything easy, great exp, great drops, easy spawns, the game served up in a silver plate. Maybe if you and people like you were less greedy than we would have spawns for everyone.
only Senzon and Smurf as fighters sold Gc, but they buy too. that should say something, mostly its small amount unlike the millions mixers sell.

my arguements arent invalid, i've been around long enough to know how things work, in black market and in-game, maybe you should spend a few more weeks in EL before saying things that dont even make sense.

again, a false arguement. Learner (a developer of the game/admin/mod/guy with server access) or however you want to call it has said its because of harvester alts.
When Learner said that? I remember radu saying on ch6 the black market slowed down a lot after the mini events. And you are the admin of the forum which hosts the black market, you should know that most people selling gc nowadays are fighters.
again, Welcome to EL Lorck, spend some time learning theg ame again, alot has changed, from about 90+% of the convo's you have it seems you are stuck in the past, always bringing up the past.
Indeed, before the pp buying fest the game was better, and yes, i like to talk and chat about the past, this not means i dont know enough about the game right now.
you need to live and learn in the present if you want to argue about things that happen now
I will argue till you stop posting stuff without much sense, to your own benefit, or till i get banned from forum (or get posting restriction).

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this would make most of the top 50 a/d quit if theres no compensation, how is that good for pk?

tbh, it probably would be good for PK.

People 100's-120's a/d would stop just getting creamed in KF.

 

Anyways i'm not going to go over all your posts and give blow-for-blow rebuttals Infa, put simply; The entire structure of the game enforces softcaps, and with pp buying the softcap is just way too far beyond what most people could ever even hope to get anywhere near.

Even without pickpoint buying it's way beyond what most types of players will ever achieve, which is ok, you can call it a characteristic of EL, but with pp buying in place, it's just ridiculous.

 

Look at the vast bulk of other MMO's; they mostly have level caps, and generally you reach them WAY quicker than you'd reach 130's+ a/d in EL, and certainly quicker than you'd reach that a/d and a heap of bought pp's.

Again, i'm not saying EL has to be like those other games, the longer char development cycle appeals to some people, but all those games have those hard/soft caps for a reason, and that reasoning should not be completely ignored for EL.

 

As for being able to kill pp buyers, yes ofc there's ways that might work, but that doesn't excuse the fact that on flat out melee character combat strength the char development curve is too long, and too high.

Edited by Korrode

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edit: and it definatly isnt good for the game, does anyone want to see all their years of hard work go down the drain just cause someone lower, focusing on other skills says its best for them? no, people quit for far less then this, remember how much people quit with something as simple as mini-events?

this would make most of the top 50 a/d quit if theres no compensation, how is that good for pk? pk would get more dead, and we'd have more people who only train instead of pking, atleast with filling the attr cap people get the feeling they own enough to go pk, without it, people would just keep training and training till they are so far above everyone elses a/d that pp buying isnt needed.

 

How is it good for PK when someone who is now very ambitious about it but in the low 100s a/d is already facing PKers like you who will only get more attributes maxed out, while the lower leveled one still needs to train? Sure, people can buy a character and instantly get a lot closer to your levels, but someone who wants to play the game and level the char all by themselves basically will never stand a chance because it's an endless story.

 

You will take that as 'crying', but it's not. I'm perfectly happy with my character in which I've invested a lot of time, effort, and gc/USD, and with my 109/114 a/d. But in the long run, for the game, it's important to get new players, and to make them stay. At the moment, most new PK oriented players can within a month be found on unoff forum because they already see they can never catch up with you if they wanna do it all from scratch. It can't go on like that. Is that tough on a few players who have been playing for years? Yes. Should EL stop developing only to keep those longtime players ingame? I don't think so.

 

But who knows.. maybe Radu will read this and come up with a solution that makes you just as happy as the original poster and the ones that support his post, so why kick and scream now already?

Edited by Dilly

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If we want to remove pp buying, change nexus removal into nexus moving. As others have suggested, only allow moving pp from one nexus to another instead of to attributes or perks. Very simple.

 

However,

 

there are many different arguments being made in this thread, and many of them are off topic.

The underlying reason to remove pp buying is to slow down the rate at which players can become stronger. Please keep in mind that such a change would only slow down getting stronger, not stop it. It seems there are many players that don't want other players to become very strong. We already had attribute caps added, and there are many other threads about ways to keep players from becoming very strong.

 

The argument for keeping players from becoming very strong is to keep the strength gap between old and new players small so that new players won't feel like they can't compete against the much stronger established players. We want more people to start playing EL and keep playing, so a relatively small strength gap is good for that reason.

 

The argument against keeping players from becoming very strong is that players who play more, train more, and generally put more time and effort into getting stronger should be getting something for their efforts. Why should players who train very little be just as strong as players who train a lot? If you want a game where victory is determined entirely by skill and not by amount of time spent level grinding, play a first person shooter, not a role playing game.

 

Naturally, there are lots of details to both of those arguments that I won't go into here, but that's the basics.

 

Having said all that, I don't have a problem with pp buying. I've bought 2 pp myself. They both went into reasoning. It's worth mentioning that I'm a peaceful mixer and don't pk or pvp at all. Remember, pp buying is available to all. If you're too poor to do it right now, there are many ways to get gc. Or get the hydro yourself and wait until you find a nexus removal stone, which is what I did.

 

As an aside, some people here have very poor debating skills.

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edit: and it definatly isnt good for the game, does anyone want to see all their years of hard work go down the drain just cause someone lower, focusing on other skills says its best for them? no, people quit for far less then this, remember how much people quit with something as simple as mini-events?

this would make most of the top 50 a/d quit if theres no compensation, how is that good for pk? pk would get more dead, and we'd have more people who only train instead of pking, atleast with filling the attr cap people get the feeling they own enough to go pk, without it, people would just keep training and training till they are so far above everyone elses a/d that pp buying isnt needed.

 

How is it good for PK when someone who is now very ambitious about it but in the low 100s a/d is already facing PKers like you who will only get more attributes maxed out, while the lower leveled one still needs to train? Sure, people can buy a character and instantly get a lot closer to your levels, but someone who wants to play the game and level the char all by themselves basically will never stand a chance because it's an endless story.

 

You will take that as 'crying', but it's not. I'm perfectly happy with my character in which I've invested a lot of time, effort, and gc/USD, and with my 109/114 a/d. But in the long run, for the game, it's important to get new players, and to make them stay. At the moment, most new PK oriented players can within a month be found on unoff forum because they already see they can never catch up with you if they wanna do it all from scratch. It can't go on like that. Is that tough on a few players who have been playing for years? Yes. Should EL stop developing only to keep those longtime players ingame? I don't think so.

 

But who knows.. maybe Radu will read this and come up with a solution that makes you just as happy as the original poster and the ones that support his post, so why kick and scream now already?

Well, i think people should be rewarded for their work, no doubt about that.

 

I also think EL end game should not be just "get millions of gc, to bid for pickpoints", try to max all the attribs without strategy, then go to pk (and in a pk environment with 50 or so players who all did the same).

 

EDIT:

The argument against keeping players from becoming very strong is that players who play more, train more, and generally put more time and effort into getting stronger should be getting something for their efforts. Why should players who train very little be just as strong as players who train a lot? If you want a game where victory is determined entirely by skill and not by amount of time spent level grinding, play a first person shooter, not a role playing game.
No, they would still be very strong if pp buying gets removed. The point is that they should at least think a bit in the building of their chars, and in strategy and all, instead of just endlessly "click in an yeti, restore if your hp get lower than a certain point, get the bag, repeat". Edited by Lorck

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I'll have to think about this more, but one thing that I think is being overlooked is that it's not just a walk in the park to buy pp's. I have mixed all my own steel/iron bars and a few of teh swords, harv'd my own hydro and made those bars. It's not easy to buy a pp. Meet me at the iron, and I'll go through the entire process with you, then one more time to sell the hydro to buy a removal stone. Sure, some people use $ to purchase them, but at around $160/pp (bars+stone) they're missing out on a hell of a lot of beer.

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I'll have to think about this more, but one thing that I think is being overlooked is that it's not just a walk in the park to buy pp's. I have mixed all my own steel/iron bars and a few of teh swords, harv'd my own hydro and made those bars. It's not easy to buy a pp. Meet me at the iron, and I'll go through the entire process with you, then one more time to sell the hydro to buy a removal stone
K, you do this to stay competitive? What if to stay competitive you don't needed to do boring/repetitive stuff?

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I'll have to think about this more, but one thing that I think is being overlooked is that it's not just a walk in the park to buy pp's. I have mixed all my own steel/iron bars and a few of teh swords, harv'd my own hydro and made those bars. It's not easy to buy a pp. Meet me at the iron, and I'll go through the entire process with you, then one more time to sell the hydro to buy a removal stone
K, you do this to stay competitive? What if to stay competitive you don't needed to do boring/repetitive stuff?

Pardon me, Lorck, but that is what training is too. Training is repetitive and boring. Mix a bunch of this....hammer out a bunch of this....cast this spell a bunch of times....kill a bunch of this critter....repetitive. Making 50 hydro bars from raw ingreds..repetitive. I don't see a difference in how repetitive these two things are.

 

For lower level characters, making the swords required for the nexus purchase may actually be worth a few pickpoints in itself. I believe nexus buying was brought in because it could take ages for a high OA character to get another pickpoint. It is just quicker to get them via hydro bars than training a particular skill.

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K, you do this to stay competitive? What if to stay competitive you don't needed to do boring/repetitive stuff?

Pardon me, Lorck, but that is what training is too. Training is repetitive and boring. Mix a bunch of this....hammer out a bunch of this....cast this spell a bunch of times....kill a bunch of this critter....repetitive. Making 50 hydro bars from raw ingreds..repetitive. I don't see a difference in how repetitive these two things are.

Well, i posted that because Ozmondious does not seem to like much to do the bars. My point is: people should not do stuff they don't like in order to be competitive or have fun in a game. Edited by Lorck

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spend loads of time developing your char and get screwed by someone who thinks they should beat someone who spends more time, more effort and more gc/money on his char development

 

Not really aimed just at PP buying but at the whole aspect of the game:

 

How much gc/money a person spends on their character should NEVER have more than a minimal effect on the characters strength in any MMO, the first two you listed "time and effort" are the only ones that should matter in any part of the game not just PK , and lets not fool ourselves most players know the majority of PKer's bought PP's dont come through hard work or effort, but through $ > GC.

 

How good a player is at any part of any game should come by how good their ingame skills are, character development , Time spent leveling, etc etc and never how much gc/$ they throw about on items or PP's

Edited by conavar

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That is not really good idea with removing bought PP's becouse there are much ppls with a lot gc in sto saved to bught pp's. Where will go that gc after we remove the bought pps ?

There will be players with MIllion after million gc in storage and there will be no items for what they to give it, so u will play 1 year, got like 5 mils gc at that time and what u will do ? just watch it in sto.

 

I don't agree with that, i think there must be bought pps

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The argument against keeping players from becoming very strong is that players who play more, train more, and generally put more time and effort into getting stronger should be getting something for their efforts. Why should players who train very little be just as strong as players who train a lot?
No, they would still be very strong if pp buying gets removed. The point is that they should at least think a bit in the building of their chars, and in strategy and all, instead of just endlessly "click in an yeti, restore if your hp get lower than a certain point, get the bag, repeat".

You are correct. Very strong players would still be very strong if pp buying gets removed. I never said otherwise. Nathan made a good point about how nearly all parts of the game are repetitive.

My point is: people should not do stuff they don't like in order to be competitive or have fun in a game.

There are lots of things that even noobs can do in EL that are fun, but I can't think of a way to make the first half of your sentence be the case. Are you suggesting that all players should be able to have a fighting chance to beat the strongest fighters in the game? The only way to make that possible is to change the game to make stats matter very little, or not at all, and make fighting almost all about technique and strategy instead. That would be a very big change. There are lots of games like that, but most of them are first person shooters or real time strategy games. EL is one of those games that allows players to get stronger the more they play, which is an aspect that I like very much and a reason I chose to play this game. I chose to play EL because I want a game that offers rewards for long term commitment. If that underlying structure of the game were changed, EL would become a very different beast.

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That is not really good idea with removing bought PP's becouse there are much ppls with a lot gc in sto saved to bught pp's. Where will go that gc after we remove the bought pps ?

There will be players with MIllion after million gc in storage and there will be no items for what they to give it, so u will play 1 year, got like 5 mils gc at that time and what u will do ? just watch it in sto.

 

I don't agree with that, i think there must be bought pps

 

Sorry but I don't think the amount of gold coin sitting in storage should have anything to do with hydro/stone PP's being in the game.

 

If you have millions upon millions of gold coin I am sure there are many things you could purchase if that gold coin didn't go toward PP buying.

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Well, i posted that because Ozmondious does not seem to like much to do the bars. My point is: people should not do stuff they don't like in order to be competitive or have fun in a game.

He's a yeti trainer, he can use his overpowered fighting skills to make millions a day and buy the hydro bars and nexus removals easy (sarcasm)

 

tbh, it probably would be good for PK.

People 100's-120's a/d would stop just getting creamed in KF.

instead the one who put in triple or quadruple the amount of time in developing his char should get creamed by someone who trained his char in a month?

if you want that then why remove bronze swords? same effect, easier solution.

 

If you have 40 or more extra pps

3rd time now, u dont get those PP in a day, if you would then it wouldnt matter where you put them. instead it takes months, and those pp's are gathered over time and while you are gathering them, you need to spend them wisely.

ill make an example for you, 48/48/48/48/48/8 with that kind of setup it wouldnt matter where you put them. no matter in what amount of time you gathered the PP

now take a build like 28/48/26/4/16/28, then it would matter where you place those pp you obtained, but since in no way you can get 40 pp in a day, your argument fails, untill you gained so many bought pp, you will have to spend them bit by bit on attributes that could use improvement.

 

When Learner said that? I remember radu saying on ch6 the black market slowed down a lot after the mini events. And you are the admin of the forum which hosts the black market, you should know that most people selling gc nowadays are fighters.

like a week ago, Lightlan said the harver alts were the cause and Learner said LL was right.

yes it slowed down alot, but what does that say? it slowed down, doesnt mean all harvester alts quited, in fact. if i wanted to i could train my main char and harvest on my alt and not be bothered by harv events at all, mapchanges being a bigger pain in the ass.

and yes, i am mod on those forums so why are you argueing? i buy Gc too in fact, guess from who? mixers.

liquid is a fighter now, but when he sold that gc he did other skills, others sell gc to pay off their char. but besides that its always the fighters buying aswell.

who spends most needs most, common sense. so why complain about fighters getting more gc? it goes mostly to others anyway.

 

No, they would still be very strong if pp buying gets removed. The point is that they should at least think a bit in the building of their chars, and in strategy and all, instead of just endlessly "click in an yeti, restore if your hp get lower than a certain point, get the bag, repeat".

 

thats part of your reasoning to remove PP buying? :confused:

that wont change if pp buying gets removed, in fact it will increase.

 

You want everything easy, great exp, great drops, easy spawns, the game served up in a silver plate. Maybe if you and people like you were less greedy than we would have spawns for everyone

i really have to scratch my head at this one, to make gc on yeti you need to OS them, you sacrifice exp for gc right there, do i say yeti drops should increase?

no, and with the change the spawntime would decrease to 35 seconds, currently its 1 min, so if it got turned single, those 5 seconds would still results in a loss of gc, 5 seconds might not be much, but it all adds up.

in no way did i suggest to increase Gc so i can just train them with cutty and get great Gc+exp, im quite happy with just OS'ing them now for just gc if i get the oppurtunity.

remember, namecalling is the lowest form of argueing :whistle: , and what you said isnt even correct. ^^

 

I also think EL end game should not be just "get millions of gc, to bid for pickpoints", try to max all the attribs without strategy, then go to pk (and in a pk environment with 50 or so players who all did the same).

that still wont change, even if pp buying gets removed people will go for the build that owns the most, if they see someone own with a certain build they will replicate that. or go for a mage build, and were so happy with those atm arent we? and that is kinda how it is already, quite frankly i'd say theres more variation in builds now then when you change it.

 

How is it good for PK when someone who is now very ambitious about it but in the low 100s a/d is already facing PKers like you who will only get more attributes maxed out, while the lower leveled one still needs to train?

thats how its always been Dilly, pp buyers are mostly 130 or 140s, no way a low 100s could beat that even if pp buying gets removed.

if they want to stand a chance they will just have to train more and buy pp too, pp buying isnt restricted by a/d skills.

 

Is that tough on a few players who have been playing for years? Yes. Should EL stop developing only to keep those longtime players ingame? I don't think so.

you know, there are other ways to get new players to high lvls faster, could double the xp per hour for players below a certain level, encourages enough.

its always (pardon the language) fk one up the ass to please someone else, its a game, game = fun. there should be a way to please both. to keep it enjoyable for all, in the end that will result in more players, something you would want going by your arguements.

 

but someone who wants to play the game and level the char all by themselves basically will never stand a chance because it's an endless story.

the game has caps, 48 in attributes and about 172 in skills, they will reach the end of the story eventually

but thats how the game is designed, has been like this since i started playing. and to quote some famous words whenever we discuss something about the game we dont like or want improvements "dont like it, play another game"

Edited by Infamous

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and to quote some famous words whenever we discuss something about the game we dont like or want improvements "dont like it, play another game"

 

I think there´s one, maybe 2 people who get away with saying that, and that´s Radu and Roja.

 

As you well know, and have used to your advantage in the past as well, the game is in beta, and is never finished, and we have a suggestions forum for a reason. You wish to be heard about the yeti issue, but when someone suggests something you don't agree with you tell them: don't like it, play another game?

 

Either way, this isn't the Infamous and Dilly show, so I'll agree to disagree with you and leave this suggestion to be found and considered by teh G0d.

Edited by Dilly

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