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Depletable resources and multiplaying

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One way to solve the alt problem and not sure if its possible programming wise, would be to programme the client so only one window per computer could be opened, any further windows would overide the original.

Then players could be allowed to have as many alts as they wanted.

How the alts would trade with each other is (WARNING idea used in another game :confused: ) via a postal system. An Npc would be accessed by player A he types in the name of the alt he wishes to send items to, deposites the items, the alt would then go to the same Npc and retrieve them.

 

Since Npc's ignore anti it solves that problem

Families are safe ( unless they use the same computer at the same time which I doudt)

No abusing the alts by resource sitting/spawn hogging/alt pvp

 

etc etc etc

Edited by conavar

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i think you should get more responces from people who harvest, because a lot of the people that are posting dont look at the side effects, such as all the prices off ess will rise, people will be using a lot more telly ess trying to find the harvestabales that they need. and with 10 people in one area think how fast it will disappear. etc etc etc im done ranting for now :confused:

 

i think its bad

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One way to solve the alt problem and not sure if its possible programming wise, would be to programme the client so only one window per computer could be opened, any further windows would overide the original.

Then players could be allowed to have as many alts as they wanted.

How the alts would trade with each other is (WARNING idea used in another game :confused: ) via a postal system. An Npc would be accessed by player A he types in the name of the alt he wishes to send items to, deposites the items, the alt would then go to the same Npc and retrieve them.

 

Since Npc's ignore anti it solves that problem

Families are safe ( unless they use the same computer at the same time which I doudt)

No abusing the alts by resource sitting/spawn hogging/alt pvp

 

etc etc etc

 

Great idea, that would enable mulitple chars either owned by 1 person, or families, but takes away the advantage of running them at the same time. Similar to my idea of using your inventory for your main char and alts, but logging 1 at a time per computer. Wont affect multiple compters being used in a single houshold so would be good for families.

Edited by willowleaf

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I'm not sure abt this, on one hand, EL is very much a resource dependent game, you need to harv resources for everything you do...if it's limited...it might just mean a price increase in almost everything in EL. Since alot of things are implemented with the idea that there are infinite resources in mind, that might mean tweaking all gc drops, modifying certain formulae for certain items and maybe giving players an alternative to earning more gc. Mixing might even be a problem if you don't have IEDP perk...since toadstools will be limited as well.

I don't know...depending on how the 'limiting' is implemented, it might mean a change of everything in EL..small tweaks here and there, more whining..and stuff.

 

On the other hand, with the limiting of resources, i'm pretty sure the rates at which rare stones are found will be increased...as with rates of enriched stuff...which might be a good thing.... ^^

Edited by eadricng

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I know Entropy already decided to implement this idea, but I still wanted to voice an opinion.

 

I like the idea of randomly renewing depleatable harvestables. The random renewal rate (hopefully) ensues that no one time zone has an unfair advantage. The idea of sources further from sto having higher quantity limit and renewing faster should (hopefully) not mess with big guild bag projects to much. I think it adds a little more skill to harvesting, and promotes exploration. The idea of the amount of resources that can be harvested and the rate of renewal being linked to the amount of people online at the time is pretty neat. Oz's idea of quick renewing harvestables only in PK areas is also intriguing (though i think that unlimited harvables in PK areas may give the beasty strong hardcore PKers that only 2 people in game can beat to big of an advantage).

 

I don't like the idea of multi play being legal. This opens up the possibility of one person with 4 or 5 harving alts exhausting a resource spot. People have already pointed out other situations like training without rostos with an alt nearby to save deathbags, or using alts as PK 'spies'. And IMO, where is the sport, gameplay, skill. honor, whatever in advancing one character with non stop XP while using another character to get around the more tedious parts of the game? Every game has some sort of tedium, whether it is harvesting enough silver and mums to make enough HEs for an a/d lvl in EL or trying to make that stupid impossible gap in Tony Hawk.

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Personally speaking, I'm not too sure about this idea. From what I can guess, there's two outcomes from this, and neither being mutually exclusive.

 

1) There was this old MMO, I believe called Nox. The game itself boiled down to nothing more than people from across the planet getting together for the sole purpose of duking it out, killing each other, dying, getting back at it - lather, rinse, repeat. If people get such a hard time of harvesting ingredients and making newer and better stuff - the hallmark of any good RPG in my mind - they'll either abandon the game or stay around for the purpose of the only thing left to be done in great quantity: fighting anything and everything.

 

2) What characters decide it best to grudge it out and keep harvesting what they need will be reduced to a horde of locusts scouring the landscape for anything and everything, even if it's not something they need, let alone can make use of at that time. It's human nature. If things are in short supply, they hoard whatever they can get their hands on. You see the exact same thing in the predicted path of impending natural disasters: store after store of shelves emptied of everything from top-grade sirloin steak to canned dog food. And those that can't get the supplies they want or need evacuate very quickly or go through a lot of trouble while they weather the storm.

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Depletable resources is a good idea ;)

 

When you look at it, there are 39(ish) maps in c1 and c2, all with harvesting spots and only a few of these maps are used heavily for harvesting..

Even with max players (2500 i believe) on the server, harvesting on all the maps, there will still be spots free somewhere. Sure, may not be as handy as nowdays, and sure, maybe it might not be the exact resources you were looking for.(e.g silver)

 

BUT! I think it opens up a new trade area of trading, the items for items variety..

You might only find a BSF spot when you wanted some silver, maybe trades will become a more resource based area.

With the possiblity of at least 1 of every reasource open, and all the alts/mains out there getting them 24/7 i doubt wether the reasources will dry up at all. When i look at it, atm, we get down to about 180 people on atm at around 11pm (new zealand standard time.) (roughly 4am E.s.t). with those people runnin 4 alts each (unlikely) it still wont be as crowded/hard to get ings as people think.

 

+ we have account with items already hoarded etc, :confused:

 

As for multi, it could provide a solution to the supposed *dry up of resources* we may see....

 

All in all, i think both are good ideas, especially because alts could make up winfall for lack of resources avaliable..

 

;)

Edited by Riviere

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Ingame name: cathuga - i beleive this whould make a dramatic change in a good way, because most of the time people are getting banned from that one rule, it whould cause a lot of peace and pleasure in the game, and we don't have to go out of our way to prove to the moderators that we are two different people after getting your account(s) locked. so im all for this Entropy! nice idea :confused:

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You might only find a BSF spot when you wanted some silver, maybe trades will become a more resource based area.

 

Well, that's part of what I'm talking about. Why are you going to want blue star flowers when all the silver harvest spots are depleted? The only thing that's going to cause is people to just grab what they can, and deny it to those who actually need a specific resource for levelling a particular skill.

 

Let's take this as an example: I've been trying to save up for the Artificier perk. If I can't find enough of what I require to make this happen, by either pickpoints or gold, how can I make this happen without having to face the potential that it would take a larger amount of eternity than it is now. Add to this that without the resources to make the items that would have a greater potential of being rare items, the horrendous amount of time I spent trying to get the perk would pretty well have been wasted.

 

I will grant that this could work out better than I believe (I've always been a callous pessimist on most things) but in so far as I can see, it's going to end up doing more harm than good. If the main problem is that people are worried about gold-farmers, just keep the mini-harv events. Hell, I've gotten used to them - I hardly even notice them anymore. As for multiplayers, a friend of mine had to get white-listed recently, and it didn't really take much doing. Not the simplest thing in the world, but it didn't take any titanic effort either.

Edited by Gorefiend

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Depletable resources: Assuming it won't be totally impossible to get chrysanthemums after i finally get the silver I need for HE (can be any resource, just giving an example), and assuming that the max amount that can be harvested isn't so low that a small group of people can actually monopolise something, maybe it's worth a shot.

 

I can live with having to wait to be able to harvest something, even more so I can live with going to a more remote area to harvest what I need, I just hope that this won't go to extremes.

 

Still no to legal multitrading though.

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My husband and I love to play this game. I love the multitrading possiblity because it really makes it hard to enjoy the game when I can't even play WITH him.. or Together Is maybe a better word. I love the multitrading and the depleated resources. I am also not much of a pker.. but Oz's idea was great as well.

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Entropy has already decided to implement depletable resources. I'm looking forward to seeing how that changes the game. I think for my case, it will mean branching out to a wider variety of harvestables. As I've spent the last couple of weeks focusing hard on harvesting a few specific resources, this will inevitably force an adaptation for me to continue. I guess it depends on just how much each resource has before depletion. Will more popular items like silver have a larger initial availability, or will all resources have approximately the same amount? I guess the one iron in evtr will be sorely beaten by harvesters on a regular basis.

 

I'm interested to see it, not against it, but also not yet for it. We'll see! :confused:;) ;) :):pickaxe:

 

As to multiplay, I think it is a bad plan. I think that if you allow multiplay for harvesting, you will have to answer to players who want to multiplay to restock their main on a spawn, to bag sit at a mine, to bag sit a db while I run back from hell, to pvp with each other, to do all the things that multiplay can allow. I think if you open up multiplay it will give you more headache with little personal return. I can tell you how I will respond to multiplay if it's allowed: no lost db while training, and I will have several alts focused on mining/harvesting specific items. I can easily run two clients on a single machine (small windows, lowered graphic detail) and have both harvesting nonstop on their favorite depleteable. I don't think this is fair to other players.

 

No to multiplay, please.

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I like both ideas but I think it will kill mixing in mines, because people will want to harvest as much as possible before other take it.

And to harvest iron for 50 bars take some time.

Well they could harvest in a bag but it would be risky to sit on a big bag of iron.

Maybe this would give problems with more people bagjumping.

 

People will want to get as high emu as possible.

 

I think we will hear - this is my spawn from harvesters now, I never liked the spawn thing, one of the bad things in game.

Edited by Zamirah

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DO NOT POST BEFORE READING AND ALLOWING HALF AN HOUR TO DIGEST WHAT YOU READ HERE!

 

We were thinking, again, to allow multiplaying. Yes, we had votes about it before, on how it will ruin the game and blah blah.

Some of the concerns were valid, some were not.

The main problem is with harvesting. You can still do it more or less afk, and if you have two computers it is relatively easy to run a main and ~2 alts that only harvest. This is also the problem that affects other things, such as gold farming and over abundance of items.

 

So, in order to allow multiplaying, there must be a solution to the problem of everyone having 3-4 alts only harvesting for the main.

The solution is simple and elegant: Depletable resources.

 

How would it work:

1. There is a finite number of each harvestible resource in the game. By resource I mean the map object you click on to harvest.

2. The server can determine the total number of resources placed in places where you can harvest them.

3. The server will try to guestimate how much of each resource is needed. This will be a little tricky to implement, and would probably require a few days of self adjustments to get it right. It could also be based on the amount of people online.

4. The server will then divide the total quantity that is 'needed'*2 to the number of harvestible resources of that type. Some of the resources (map objects) that are not very used, such as those further from storages, will have a higher quntity.

5. Each hour or perhaps every few hours, some (randomly) of the resources will be replenished.

6. Optionally, the resources that are harvested the most will be replenished slower.

7. Characters who just logged in the game can't harvest for a minute or two, to prevent people from logging out their alts at the resources and logging them every hour or so to check.

8. With this system, the mini events can be removed, and the harv limit increased from 120 an hour to 200 an hour or so.

9. Some maps will have harvesting restrictions, for example, IP would allow harvesting only up to level 15 harvesting, and would not be depleatable.

 

IMO, this would make the game much more interesting, would encourage exploration and better competition, and would reduce the moderators time, as well as making it easier for families to play.

 

Think about it, and post in 30 minutes or more.

 

 

Ok. I have given it the requisite time for thought, and have some thoughts on the issue.

 

Let me start by saying that I do not like the mini-events, and think this idea is worse than the mini-events. I feel that in the long and short run, it hurts the majority of players - and players are what the game is about. As far as the decision to implement this goes, I feel that it depends on what problem you are addressing, and what you hope to accomplish.

 

My son and I started playing this game in January, and so far I have not seen what I consider to be a positive way of addressing a negative issue. In order to try and sort out my ideas, I want to present what I perceive the problems to be - and offer what I feel to be a valid option to handle them in a positive, proactive manner - as opposed to a negative, reactive manner. I have a background in areas of economics, philosophy, and many years of retail executive level experience, and I ask that you at least consider what I have to say.

 

Gold harvesting

 

My understanding is that there have been problems with people having alts for the purpose of harvesting and selling to NPC's with bottomless pockets, then taking the GC and selling it for real greenbacks. The same has been done with manufactured items as well. Supposedly this has brought on inflation, as well as an increase on harvesting alts.

 

Possible solutions: excess GC in the game does not necessarily lead to inflation - at least not in short term. Since consumables became scarcer due to harvest events, there has been a shorter-term problem with inflation due to lack of consumables, and difficulty obtaining them. I have gotten away from harvesting silver to make HE's with, and started buying it from trade bots. Prices will go up more from that.

 

Solution 1.

Do unto others. Currently Rosto stones sell for $5 US. They sell in-game for ~ $20kgc. Eliminate the middle man and sell GC for $5 per 20k. Harvesting enough resources to make 20k is not worth $5 in terms of time. For someone to do what is needed to make that business profitable, they would have no life and 20 alts.

 

Solution 2

As I have suggested before, another option would be - instead of limiting the amount of harvesting resources, limit the amount that NPC's will buy - on a per character basis. Sure, it might be possible to recruit someone to sell your stuff, but if the limit on flowers is 1k per day per person, why bother?

 

Inflation

Solution 1

Lower the prices of finished goods from NPC's, and make all items more easily purchased. Lower armor prices at NPC's. Unilaterally lower resource prices from NPC's to levels that make it worth considering - say 10% higher than what fair market price from players should be.

 

Solution 1a.

Make most ingredients available for purchase at 90% cost of end product. Ing's for CoL = CoL price - 10%

 

-------------------------------------

 

Part of the problem with inflation is not excess GC ingame, it is a lack of finished product. Not enough players are playing who are capable of crafting Crowns of Life - an item in demand. When I bought mine, I had to search and search to find a trade bot who had one. I bought a CoL a couple of months ago for 64k. I priced them a few weeks aerlier at 58k. Now they are 67k - if you can find them. I bought my Great Sword for 23k in February. Now they are 28k. There is not enough GC coming into the game that I can see to account for that kind of increase.

 

----------------------------------------

 

Other possible options

 

Add weight to GC and limit the amount that can be stored. Make 400k the limit in storage and give GC a weight of 1/8 emu or some such.

----------------------------------------

Problem: Multiplay

In my honest opinion, too much is made of this. Harvesting alts are easy to track down. Character trading is not that big of a deal. My son and I share the same IP, but we play fairly, and we are definitely 2 people. It is easy to verify if you need to.

Solution: Email and phone contacts

require email at registration and if multiplay in an illegal manner is suggested, send a form email. If it continues, Zap them. If Zippy and Zappy share the same IP and all Zappy does is harvest ing's for Zippy to make FE, its pretty obvious what is going on. 2 characters on at the same time - one fighting ogre in Melinis, the other making potions in Desert Pines, it is pretty obvious that 2 people are playing. We would be glad to call anyone in the USA to talk to them and verify our identities. There are enough mods globally I should think that most countries where there are high concentrations of players would have a mod available to verify ID.

-----------------------------------------------

Final thoughts...

 

Harvesting represents the single most tedious aspect of EL. The amount of consumables required to manufacture certain items is a bit extreme, and the mini-events make an already tedious process even more tedious. Add in a new factor of having to chase down resources, and it will become almost - if not totally - unbearable. I was working on alchemy when you instituted harvest events, and abandoned it for all purposes but health essence and energy essence. Now I train a/d. Consumables being limited means that my already strained time will be strained even further by having to chase down silver when I need health essence. I am sure others will be in the same situation.

 

There are guilds who are devoted to certain aspects of the game...So when I need iron ore for energy essences, what is the chance that VOTD will be already depleted when I get there? Probably pretty high...and as a full time grad student, I simply lack the time to run all over the maps looking for resources.

 

With all due respect, I feel that mini-events were a terrible thing, and this is much worse. My son and I are good players. We do not start problems or cause issues. I try to do my part. I may not spend a fortune, but I do buy items from the EL shop, and my son and I multiplay fairly. If this change is made, Adama90 and I will probably move on to something else. That is not any threat and please dont take it as such...it is just reality. There is not time in our lives to mess with these sort of issues. I don't have time to spend chasing resources.

 

Thanks for hearing me out.

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Well, my knee-jerk reaction is that depletable resources are a bad idea, given the sheer amount of harvestables needed in this game to level most non-combat related skills. That being said, I had a similar reaction to the mini-events, and honestly, after dealing with them for a while, I've found that they aren't all that bad, especially after the rate drop in the last update. So, yeah, I expect that I'll be annoyed at first, but learn to adapt eventually, once the kinks get worked out.

 

As for multiplaying, I am actually more against the idea with depletable resources than I would be without them, for many of the same hogging and hoarding concerns already mentioned about a dozen times in this thread.

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Eliminate the middle man and sell GC for $5 per 20k.

 

What if u want to pay someone GC sow s/he could pay $ to buy somthing from EL-shop to you?

 

#Edit ill vote no for multiplaying.

Edited by Lucky_Paladin

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Eliminate the middle man and sell GC for $5 per 20k.

 

What if u want to pay someone GC sow s/he could pay $ to buy somthing from EL-shop to you?

 

Personally speaking, that would be their choice to give up real money for currency that's useful only in a game.

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Eliminate the middle man and sell GC for $5 per 20k.

 

What if u want to pay someone GC sow s/he could pay $ to buy somthing from EL-shop to you?

 

Personally speaking, that would be their choice to give up real money for currency that's useful only in a game.

 

I know lol.

 

what i ment is some players (me to) is paying GC to someone sow s/he could buy you somthing from EL-shop.

 

When u "Eliminate the middle man" its the same deal. Its like selling gc for $ but these $ goes to EL-shop.

 

Right ;|

Edited by Lucky_Paladin

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Depletable resources work great in other games but there is one catch - none of those games with depletable resources I know requires such amounts of raw materials to accomplish simple production / leveling tasks as EL does. EL already requires enormous number of repetition of certain tasks to reach goals at the higher level, so I'd be very careful about setting depletaable resource limit below acceptable minimum. Fortunately it seems to be quite easy to fine tune. Since the decision has been already made, we'll see how it works in practice (however I do not really think EL can benefit in any way from making harvesting to require even more work as it requires now).

 

Multiplying - yes, but only if:

 

One way to solve the alt problem and not sure if its possible programming wise, would be to programme the client so only one window per computer could be opened, any further windows would overide the original.

 

Additionally, there should be a limit of characters from 1 IP alllowed (with some exceptions for families playing together perhaps).

Edited by Cruella

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Ok, well, let us have a vote then, so you won't say: "omfg that moron ruined the game (again)!11!"

 

Or implement and evaluate after 2 weeks or a month?

We've all seen that judging without experiencing properly leads to premature reactions. This is such a massive change for both the game as for the players, that it might be worth a testphase?

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Ok, well, let us have a vote then, so you won't say: "omfg that moron ruined the game (again)!11!"

 

Or implement and evaluate after 2 weeks or a month?

We've all seen that judging without experiencing properly leads to premature reactions. This is such a massive change for both the game as for the players, that it might be worth a testphase?

 

Unfortunately, that requires a lot of work (the implementation), and I don't want to work like an idiot then the players to say: omfg, I am quitting.

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My vote:

 

1) Keep the mini-harv events to dissuade AFK harvesting, though possibly increase the value of each one.

2) Allow purchase of GC through the EL shop.

3) Let multiple people who use the same IP to log in get permission through the white list. (Though, it could also help if that process was streamlined a little so someone didn't have to wait a week for response about that.)

4) Keep amounts possible for harvesting from one spot limited to 'Infinite' as having limits could cause problems during times when there's a lot of people in the game, or when guilds are running events that, in any form, require large amounts of harvesting.

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