New / Modified Armors

[Ateh]

Well got to admit first of all this post is really on behalf of someone else who suggested this today during a conversation we were having about PK & ranging. We believe in the not to distant future ranging could play a pivotal role in EL PK'ing, however something would be nice to add while the arrows are still missing from the battlefield.

 

At the moment, ranging isn't too effective in PK ( mostly because people havnt put thier heads together and formulated a decent strategy to combine certain elements of EL wholly into PK ) but what was suggested was armor for ranging.

 

This armor would be able to resist higher damage than regular PK armors, but at the same time have higher penaltys to other attributes such as attack / defense , criticals to hit.

 

This would give rangers a very tough armor capable of withstanding heavy blows if they were to be engaged in mele combat, but the penaltys would outweigh the benefits of using the armor as a solely PK armor.

 

Also, the armor could give certain positives to ranging, such as small bonus's to accuracy or possibly reduce the visibility of the archer, camo cape is nice yes and ideal for the job, but the armor could be another way to achieve this effect ( if not as well as the camo cape then somewhere close )

 

There could be different levels of ranging armor , or just one set. Could even be possible to bring back the bronze armor yet change its stats to suit the rangers purposes, accuracy bonus' , higher reduction of damage yet more severe combat penaltys.

 

The Ranging Armors could be made by a skill other than manuing, as manuers already have the strangle hold on PK armor. tailoring is an obvious choice but even engineering as this seems to be linked to ranging already.

 

Just an idea, dont shoot the messenger ... Peace out EL

[Khalai]

Logically, armor capable of withstand a heavy damage with penalties to melee combat would also have penalties for accuracy as well. Either is armor light, flexible or hard and heavy.

 

Second logical observation point. Archers were never a good armored, tough units. They were usually vulnerable, that's why they were in the back lines, not in the middle of the battlefield. I suggest to do the same for the archers of EL.

 

Just my contrubution to this

[Ateh]

I agree that rangers should stay away from mele combat , totally agree and yes in the past they were allways kept far from the bloodbath. But in the past the peasants couldnt make suggestions to God and God make cool shit for them to play with.

 

But still, some armors specific to ranging would be a nice addition to the skill. Regardless of actual stats ,

 

Who said the armor has to be heavy ? Augmented Torso isnt as heavy as Iron Plate, yet it has similar damage reduction capability.

 

There could be seperate ranging armors, some with higher toughness for less damage, some with accuracy bonus' and less toughness.

 

Some armors could let you reload faster , or give a stat increase to missile accuracy ( due to the fact the armor is light and therefore not so good on damage reduction, but it lets you arms move more freely - if were going for realism here )

 

Possibilitys are endless, and of course as allways any nice bonus would be offset by a penalty. But that could be allsorts of variations. I just dont think the current armors are in any way helpful to ranging, they are directly designed for melee combat, which archers are not part of as stated.

 

Just putting the ideas out there, as its not been mentioned yet.

 

*edit* removed my contradictions, changed the letters in the post, added a smiley, re wrote it again , made a coffee, had a smoke and hit Complete Edit

 

*edit 2 * so as not to double post , someone will mention the ranging perks , but for majority of combat perks, you have a cape , as yet theres no wilhelm tell cape, or ethereal archer cape if there was then great but hey who knows what the future holds for ranging

Edited August 26, 2008 by Ateh

[Troger]

I agree that rangers should stay away from mele combat , totally agree and yes in the past they were allways kept far from the bloodbath. But in the past the peasants couldnt make suggestions to God and God make cool shit for them to play with.

 

But still, some armors specific to ranging would be a nice addition to the skill. Regardless of actual stats ,

 

Who said the armor has to be heavy ? Augmented Torso isnt as heavy as Iron Plate, yet it has similar damage reduction capability.

 

There could be seperate ranging armors, some with higher toughness for less damage, some with accuracy bonus' and less toughness.

 

Some armors could let you reload faster , or give a stat increase to missile accuracy ( due to the fact the armor is light and therefore not so good on damage reduction, but it lets you arms move more freely - if were going for realism here )

 

Possibilitys are endless, and of course as allways any nice bonus would be offset by a penalty. But that could be allsorts of variations. I just dont think the current armors are in any way helpful to ranging, they are directly designed for melee combat, which archers are not part of as stated.

 

*edit* removed my contradictions, changed the letters in the post, added a smiley, re wrote it again , made a coffee, had a smoke and hit Complete Edit

 

Hevy armors are/and were always designed for close combat fighters, the rangers should not wear or wear only leather armours or chain mails. Oh but what i am talking about isen't EL a classless game? so how would you make to restrict some armor parts for only those who are using the ranging skill? If you make it to resist great damage and have great attack deff penalty, than it would be useless, if you make than too good than every a/d people would use it.

With camo cloack and no armor you'r almost unseenable at night. If you use your ranging skill you should have pretty high perception, using this with a nightvisor mask you will see your close combat enemy from a distance that permits to attack twice before he even realises from where are you shooting.

[Ateh]

what good is walking into a PK map wearing leather pants and a steel chain ? or better yet, walk into a PK map wearing a night visor and no armor at all , you will see yourself getting slaughtered clearly ? and why should the archers only come out at night ? it isnt the insomniacs skill

 

naked archers FTW ? the armors should be beneficial to rangers in such a way that using them as conventional PK armor would be pointless compared to existing armors, its a seperate skill alltogether, it IS a seperate class to melee combat.

 

and whats with realism all of a sudden ? why does ranging have to be ubber realistic amongst such things as tele port rings, crowns of life , magical swords and fluffy rabbits ?

 

the idea is to give rangers more options for armor that might give them an edge in an unevenly balanced situation.

 

but failing that, do the medallions work with ranging ? and if not why not ?

[Vanyel]

This suggestion lacks some logic.

As long as archers and crossbowmen were used they never were heavily armoured as it would reduce their abilities to move around and accuracy. I completely agree with Khalai.

All in all, I don't think rangers should be heavy armoured.

On the other hand heavy armours (anything starting with iron plate) should have high accuracy penalties.

[RotationZ]

Just to reply:

 

Erm, archers have always been a vital part of any army... Archers from ancient times all were armoured, (lookup: ninja archer, persian archers, mongolian horseback archers). From the movies one might think that archers were robin hood like people shooting from camo or a thick castle wall. In reality archers were armoured as good as foot soldiers, perhaps even better because they didn't need as much freedom of movement as a sword swinging madmen or axe wielding bafoons

 

just my 2 cents

[Elenor]

Heavy armour (as in, full suit of padded gabason, chain mail and plate) can actually be run in and the wearer can do hand stands etc. But by an archer wearing lighter armour they have greater mobility, and can move faster. This page below covers some aspects of historic archery (longbow specific):

 

http://www.archers.org/default.asp?section...mp;page=longbow

 

Quotes:

Equipment of the 14th Century:

The more well equipped archers, the house archer, wore an Open-faced Bascinet or a simple conical helmet, sometimes with a maille Aventail, a "fall" covering the neck and/or cheeks. For body protection, the Padded Gambeson or Aketon was most commonly worn. This was a thick quilted knee length coat with long sleeves that tapered to a tight fit at the forearms, so as not to hinder the archer. Sometimes a Chain-maille shirt was worn over the Gambeson. These shirts were hip-, thigh-, or knee length, with half, three-quarter, or full length sleeves. Obviously the lighter type was more common. Leg plates, shoulder plates (Spaulders or Pauldrons) and similar plate augmentation was uncommon at this stage of history.

Equipment of the 15th Century:

During this period, the well equipped archer wore a simple open faced Salade or Sallet. Occasionally, these were visored, but one wonders as to the hindrance of such a device. The Jack, a thigh length, diamond quilted version of the Aketon, by this time had become the standard body covering. By the mid 15th Century, Brigandine had started to be used. This was a sleeveless, poncho like jack with integral overlapping plates fastened between layers of stout fabric by a series of rivets. Plate augmentation for the legs, arms, and shoulders seem to have been more prevalent during this period, but it was still uncommon.

 

If an archer took down a knight's horse with his bow, he would go at the fallen knight with his dagger (through the visor eyeslit perhaps?) and he also may have had an axe or sword. An archer hamstinging a knight's horse with his dagger is extremely feasible.

 

In the middle ages, a longbow wouldn't have been very expensive, it was a LOT harder to get good with a longbow (or similar) than a crossbow (which was more like a rifle). A rifle is much easier to aim than something like a longbow. I think the cost of replacing a broken bow and other gear might be one of the real major dampers on PK archery but what do I know? I've only just started playing. Forgive me this presumptuous post.

[Ateh]

perhaps the inititial suggestion of heavy armor threw people , probably wasnt the best way to begin.

 

but my point still stands, archers would be better equiped with an armor that suited thier skill, something that ( for the really hardcore realists amongst the suggestions forum ) would let them move freely and giving them an accuracy bonus, yet at the same time not leaving them stood in the middle of KF completely fking naked wearing a camo cape

 

EL takes its libertys with realism, I dont see why there couldnt be armors that :

 

Improve Accuracy

 

Improve Missile Accuracy ( obviously never as much as the bow itself )

 

Provide an inate level of camoflage

 

The link that Elenor posted is really interesting to have a look at if your still not convinced that rangers had thier own armor.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Ateh

[bkc56]

and whats with realism all of a sudden ? why does ranging have to be ubber realistic amongst such things as tele port rings, crowns of life , magical swords and fluffy rabbits ?

Speaking of realism, one thing I see about ranging were EL differs from real archery is the distances involved. In EL, ranging distances amount to a few paces. In a real battle archers would never be that close to the hand-to-hand fighting unless the battle lines suddenly moved (or a position was overrun).

 

I think the biggest disadvantage to using ranging in a PK setting is simply that the rangers are forced to be to close to the action. With no good protection (armor or whatever) they are easy kills if anyone gets to them.

[Wizzy]

Since ranging requires perception I would say, build with 48P 48V 48I and some reasoning...Should be lots of toughness and good dodge for an archer

[Ateh]

Since ranging requires perception I would say, build with 48P 48V 48I and some reasoning...Should be lots of toughness and good dodge for an archer

 

ok as soon as I get to 144 OA ( well, maybe even 160 OA considering the two ranging perks ) i'll come back and let you know good it works

 

*edit* in fact forget it , archers will still come to play a support role in the future of EL pk at some point , regardless of wether or not they go in PK naked or have an OA of 160

Edited August 26, 2008 by Ateh

[teehee]

In regards of the armour being used in melee instead of ranging, maybe it can be done where the armour will have a significantly higher breaking chance than others. Maybe not realistic but hey it would prevent fighters from using it.

[Elenor]

Having a special peice of armour which makes one more accurate is a bit unrealistic. Shooting stark naked would be about as accurate as you could get for clothing (as in not hindering shooting/aiming)....unless it was a very cold day.... *shiver*

 

Armour basically should have a negative inpact on accuracy, but perhaps the range at which an archer can shoot should be much longer. It's strange that a really expensive skill should be at such a disadvantage. Historically, archers were cheaper than a man-at-arms.

 

Of all peices of equipment, why should armour be the thing which makes an archer more accurate? It is something which does the opposite of assisting free movement.

[Ateh]

Of all peices of equipment, why should armour be the thing which makes an archer more accurate? It is something which does the opposite of assisting free movement.

 

dunnoh, just throwing suggestions out there to try and bring ideas to a new skill thats really hard to level and has already maybe 1 tactic to PK (camo cape and night vision goggles)

 

but whatever its obviously not real enough for EL , which is of course based around elves, dragons , gnomes and magic swords

 

sorry, cant help myself

[Affliction]

this may be a bit off topic.. but i think the main thing keeping archery from really helping in PK is that archers cannot hide behind the fighters.. normally wouldnt the archers be at a higher point behind the fighters and shoot over them.. or from the side. .but either way they would be behind the melee fighters..

 

so after all that i wish that we could shot over other fighters.. maybe take elevation into concideration.. .if im standing behind 2 or 3 ppl fighting and i want to shoot some one on the other team.. i'd like to be able to shoot over my team and hit there ppl..

 

also. i dont think they should have heavy armor.. now separating from realism. i do think it would be cool to have certain tunics and what not that gave missile accuracy bonus.. or maybe missile damage bonuses.... you know as magical items.. maybe they could be rare makes on certain tailoring items....

 

but anyways.. just my thoughts on it all.

Edited August 27, 2008 by jizzy

[Elenor]

Elevation would be cool. Having the general shooting range increased as well would also be cool. In battles, archers also had the range to stand in the front ranks, fire at least once (at a rate of three arrows per minute) and then get behind the men at arms/knights (battle teamwork). Elevation and range would be really cool. Good archers would be able to hit with greater surety at range etc.

 

Magical items, such as an archer's forearm protector (vambrace) would be nice.

 

Elves should have a modifier for... just kidding.