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Entropy

Attributes cap for the main server

Attribute caps  

410 members have voted

  1. 1. Cap each attribute at 48

    • Yes!
      252
    • OMG WTF no way!11!!
      157


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I feel as though I'm just copying the last few posts, but Lochness said it so perfectly...

No caps is the main reason I play this game.(Besides friends, of course. :) )

Edited by LIGHTspeed

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I,m with lochnesslobster...i would have to reset to get rid of the neg perks(which i certainly would not have taken if i had any idea the attributes would be capped), being at oa105, there is no way i am resetting again :) The main attraction to this game is the fact that there is no limits or restriction on how you build your character..this kills that idea.

This might not be necessary -- given the extraordinary act of setting a cap, Ent might want to offer a way, for a limited time, to redime negative perks (e.g., through the Wraith). Maybe you could spend the PPs that are given back to you as the cap is introduced to get rid of unnecessary perks...

 

As for the "no limits", remember that there is a limit on OA (178, if I remember well), which in turn places limits on attributes already. It is just a matter of deciding which level is appropriate.

Notice that the OA cap at 178 means an average cap on attributes of ~30 (not considering PPs you might want to spend on nexuses: if we consider nexuses, with an average of 4PP per nexus, the average per attribute would drop to 26), so the cap at 48 still gives you quite some leeway...

 

How many PPs/OAs do I 'pay' to get rid of a perk I would never have taken in the first place had I know a cap would be implemented? If we could simply have all of our perks removed and the pick points returned to us along with any pick points from being over the limit that would some what mitigate the situation.

 

The idea of no limits is based on choice not on specific number limits. I believe Dust has or had 160 phys, other characters have had 160+ coord. The 'limit' was removed when the nexus removal stones came into being though Dust never used one as far as I know. Do we force everyone to use nexus and set the limit at 25 per attribute? I think you need to give players at least something close to the freedom they are used to. If you use no nexus then 178 divided by 6 is 30 if you round up. If 30 is the average then shouldn't the maximum be 60 so that a person going straight for one attribute can be head and shoulders above average? If a cap is going to be put in place I don't think anything less than 60 is reasonable.

 

It might work great on the PK server but this is not the PK server. Why have seperate servers if the cap is the same on both if you have caps at all? Give more stretch for players to be able to fight a greater range of stuff and keep from limiting emu too much at the same time. This makes for less of a log jam at spawns. It still drastically alters the landscape of fighting strategy. Anything lower than this IMO is going to make things less fun and not more fun because the possibilities are so much more limited.

 

TirunCollimdus

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All I practically do is mix and harvest. Capping Will and Cord is bad for me, since I use it just for exp(faster leveling), mana (for poison healing and frequently magic training) and emu(harvesting and mixing, did you know I can only mix 2 potion extracts at a time? Lots of ingredients there :P). I would have MORE cord and will IF I didn't have to have so many nexus and that's another thing.. fighters don't need much nexus either.. what's up with that? 0.o
Firstly, if your not a fighter, why are you taking coord instead of phys? :)

 

Secondly, have fun reaching 48/48/48 p/c/w + bunch of nexuses + few or none neg perks... see u in quite a few years.

 

This change will have little to no effect on the vast majoirty of mixers in EL. Those with over 48 phys will have a little less health... any person, who does a couple of mixing skills that take nexus, with over 60 phys please raise your hand....

Most of you wont be getting to 960 emu anyways, most of you wont be getting to 48 Will.

 

For once, it is a bunch of mixers/harvesters being selfish here.

These limits are only a little under what is achievable by most mixers.

For the sake of 30 health and maybe a bit over 100emu, you are prepared to vote against something that would fix the massively fucked PK situation we currently have on the main server.

Thanks a lot.

 

And as for the people complaining about how EL should be classless and limitless... it still will be classless. As for limits, this would be a very good limit to have... i guess thats just a matter of opinion.

 

 

In regard to "high OA/nexus stone people will still be unkillable in PK anyways", yes, they still will be very hard to kill, and to a degree, so they should be... BUT they will not be able to kill the lower level people as easy.

 

This should eliminate the 20+ people sitting outside an arena on NDD while three or four 130+ a/d people sit in the arena.

People wont attack them atm cause they simply hit too hard and with a couple of people catching your diss you have very little chance of survival. With a 48 might limit, although we still wont be able to kill these people, at least being in combat with them wont mean "omg i cant even cast immune cause the 2 second spell cooldown will get me killed"

 

Long fights, lots of HE/SR/Ess use, armors and weapons breaking like crazy...

This is the best damn idea for mixers ever.

 

Look at the big picture, not your own little ":o my emu and health will be a little lower" world.

Edited by Korrode

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I have looked at the big picture of things and with as much as i like to PK i would rather keep the fucked up PK system were the strong people are hard as hell to kill then be forced to limit how i spend my pick points on attributes.

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I have looked at the big picture of things and with as much as i like to PK i would rather keep the fucked up PK system were the strong people are hard as hell to kill then be forced to limit how i spend my pick points on attributes.
As for limits, this would be a very good limit to have... i guess thats just a matter of opinion.
Fair enough SmurF, and if this goes through there'd certainly be a lot of attribute setup's i've used and thought about using that would no longer be available.

 

But i'm prepared to make the sacrifice, your not, thats fine.

 

My tone in my last post is mainly directed at the mixer/harvesters that've been complaining.

 

 

EDIT:

I will add tho, that if the limit was 60, rather than 48... that'd still be a lot better than it is now, and if it'll make the mixers/harvesters happier, fine fine.

Edited by Korrode

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Although this is an interesting idea, I would object to it unless all perks are neutralized including skeptic... and allow a redistribution of pp to all character, although this may mean work for ent so we would have to pay for the service. Skeptic is key to this change. :)

 

Earlier in the post, people talk about how they would gang on higher lvl pkers, as higher lvl pkers have no friends. But what if you are the one who gets ganged by several 120+ a/d along with many giants?

 

Some of you, i think, have the right point. The market isnt dead when pk is dead; this is just a misconception about the idea that most trainers train to pk. But the market wont be dead when training is not dead. With this cap i feel like training til oa 130 is aready good for pking hence stop training and perk up since oa after 120 really kills the clicking finger.

 

Bout time for summoners to pwn. :P So long for steel bar projects. :o

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I have to say that it would be absurd to introduce a cap that would make me... a miner/harvester who has NEVER hit another player or been hit by another player in any map... into a pinnacle predator due to high p/c. I have no interest in any attributes but P/C/W, and once they were maxed, I could consider I had "clocked the game".

 

I like what Moe said ("if it ain't broke, don't fix it"), and I would even go as far as to say that to introduce a cap to try to make the game more nice for PKers may not make the PKers happy, but it will distribute the unhappiness evenly.

 

I vote "NO".

 

I also somewhat dislike the way the poll is stated, as it appears that either you vote "Yes" and are a sane, well-balanced individual... or you vote "No" and are an ignorant n00b fluent in l337 and nothing else. Not exactly an unbiased presentation.

 

Still, I am but one Stewbaby in a sea of other babies.

 

Cheers,

 

Stewbaby

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Very good idea, before voting I think everyone should think alot about this. Many people is crying about how some players is überstrong with 100+ coord so I really hope that you vote yes now!

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Here in England we play footie, the goal posts are in the ground...we can see them and we know where they are before the game starts. If the referee decided to move the posts or the field lines during the game the players will rightly be miffed....

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Well, I might vote yes if the cap was higher (like 60-80) but for now I am undecided.

 

Ent, just remember this is a big vote! Give it a couple weeks before deciding to cap or not! Its almost christmas and some people may not have the time to get on the forums and view this topic. So please, have mods or yourself post a #message linking to this topic at least once a day.

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The problem of perks people wouldn't have taken had they known a cap was coming is just as easy to solve as the EMU problem is with new capes/crowns/medallions/etc.

 

Entropy is going to have to create some sort of program/script to process all the player data and adjust the attributes to the new caps (returning PPs). That process could also remove any/all perks. For a change this radical to player's configurations, a perk reset without the loss of OA might be a good side-benefit. People could then re-configure the free PPs as they wish with or without perks.

 

For that matter, the process could remove ALL pick-points and perks allowing people to totally re-configure without a reset.

 

It could be a huge benefit to people who've been wanting to change their perks but haven't wanted to because of a high OA. I'd trade my capped attributes (I do have one that would be over) for a chance to change perks or totally re-configure.

 

I wonder how many "no" people would become "well, I guess..." if this were part of the change?

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I also somewhat dislike the way the poll is stated, as it appears that either you vote "Yes" and are a sane, well-balanced individual... or you vote "No" and are an ignorant n00b fluent in l337 and nothing else. Not exactly an unbiased presentation.
That's not really a problem, you just correct for asking slanted questions by biasing the results. In this case, perhaps 1.5x the No votes to correct for it.

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Well, forget about it.

I was willing to do it if the votes were something like 70/30 for it. BTW, since harvesters are complaining about their already huge EMU, I decided not to implement the mule pet.

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How many of you people out there who voted no would have voted yes if it had been a 60 limit instead of 48?

 

EDIT:

For that matter, the process could remove ALL pick-points and perks allowing people to totally re-configure without a reset.
Great idea bkc! Edited by Korrode

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How many of you people out there who voted no would have voted yes if it had been a 60 limit instead of 48?

or would have voted yes if perk reset was thrown in...

 

I was uncomfortable with this suggestion; yes people chose perks not knowing about a future with an attrib cap, but at the same time, you have had the benefit of those perks, both positive and negative from when you got them to till now, so on balance i think perks should not be reset.

 

Seems we are done though right?

 

and...mule pet?

 

S.

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Seems we are done though right?
I'll never be done... I'll continue trying to convince Ent to do this forever lol :)

 

...or until i get fed up and just go full time on the PK server.

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Coord = pr0

Many of the arguments against an attribute cap (regardless of the specific number of the cap, be it 48 or 60, etc.) are exactly why we need one in the first place. The entire "strategy" to fighting today is: COORDINATION. Nothing else really matters. A given player's PK skills are secondary.

 

What on draia is instinct?

If you look at the builds of top fighters today, there is essentially no variation, other than possibly some will vs. vitality. The other attributes, such as reasoning and instinct are completely ignored, because coordination is simply better. Players camp monster spawns for 4-6+ hours with their high emu. Currently, fighting is largely pointless, since someone can neg up for an extra 30 coordination, which trumps a solid year of a/d training at higher levels.

 

Whiney britches (no, not a typo)

Players complaining "omg, I had 60 coord, now I would only have 48!!!" are victims of the current system, wherein the cross attributes of dexterity and reaction are ignored. the "extra" 12 pickpoints can go towards instinct for reaction, and maybe a (stronger) weapon can be used. This promotes the idea of players actually thinking about their attributes, and what they actually do.

 

Those who actually use nexus

As for the true harvesters/mixers, I don't imagine most would not be negatively affected by such a change. I imagine that most players in excess of 960 emu are primarily fighters. If anything, the average player who might want to have some fun fighting other players may stand more of a chance. Instead of someone with 100 might doing crazy amounts of damage in a single hit, even the top fighter in EL would have 48 might. This represents a huge change in damage inflicted. Players with pickpoints invested in nexus can still fight with the big boys, so to speak.

 

Potential problem

Some attention may need to be paid to the idea of players having 384 mana and 240 natural health. This may make it virtually impossible to kill someone. Maybe a comprimise of p/c limited to 60, will/vit limited to 28 may be in order. The numbers proposed are more for consideration and discussion than my final ideal. This would still promote some thinking as to how pickpoints are spent, and help avoid endless fights.

 

Undo my conscious perk choices 'cause...um....because!

As an added point, I do not think perks should be "reset" because of this change. Perks (both negative and positive) were taken by players in trade for precious pickpoints. The pickpoints are still there for use, or the perk in place. Someone who took ICD, HoS, or any other neg perk for uber coord can simply spend those points on the same cross attributes.

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I think a lot have not voted yet, I have not, wanted to read what people posted first.

I think other do the same.

 

And mixers - think of how great it would be with high hp, easier to mix with toadstools, very few would die.

 

Perks - I think they should be possible to remove, I took some to get big emu.

Edited by Zamirah

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Well, forget about it.

I was willing to do it if the votes were something like 70/30 for it. BTW, since harvesters are complaining about their already huge EMU, I decided not to implement the mule pet.

 

Ohh, on page 1 I guessed If this didn't go well you would say:

 

"Well since you voted against my idea there's something else which I didn't mention that you're also not going to get!"

 

Pro.

 

 

Voted yes - We managed at w/e the cap was before (16? :) can't remember)

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not voting yet, still need to make my mind up.. wouldn't it be better if we had a better picture of the whole idea and then voted? (i.e. mule pets and perk resets yes/no etc).. then i think people would be more receptive to the idea, as their concerns would be removed

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not voting yet, still need to make my mind up.. wouldn't it be better if we had a better picture of the whole idea and then voted? (i.e. mule pets and perk resets yes/no etc).. then i think people would be more receptive to the idea, as their concerns would be removed

 

Agreed. I haven't even voted yet, as I would not like to "lock" in my vote for a cap of 48 for all attributes before other options are discussed (e.g. 60 cap for all/some attributes). Perhaps a poll which would be more fair would be one of who might be in favor of an attribute cap at all, with specifics to be decided later, perhaps in another poll. If this is the end all be all of attribute cap polls, I will most certainly vote, and encourage others to. However, I don't think "48 ONLY" or "NO WAY" should be the only options this early on, especially for such a radical change.

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Ohh, on page 1 I guessed If this didn't go well you would say:

 

"Well since you voted against my idea there's something else which I didn't mention that you're also not going to get!"

 

Pro.

 

 

Voted yes - We managed at w/e the cap was before (16? :) can't remember)

 

Mule pets were mentioned on my blog, which is public, and the url was published a few times.

And I missed your post on page 1, can you kindly provide an url?

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BTW, since harvesters are complaining about their already huge EMU, I decided not to implement the mule pet.
Just as a point-of-order, I'm the #2 harvester in the game (and with Soldus gone some could argue higher). My EME is only 800 (no where near the limit a cap would introduce) and I was not complaining. Just a small counter-example. :)

 

 

And as an aside, I'm am always amazed at the wailing and gnashing of teeth (oh, the drama!!) stuff like this produces only to be rejected by Entopy in the end. People threatening to leave over something that doesn't even exist (and didn't "exist" for less than 9 hours in this case).

 

Personally I think a poll like this needs to be open for at least 24 hours before a "winner" is declared. But perhaps there are other factors at play here than the actual poll results.

 

 

Oh well, at least the PK server will have the limits so we can see how it works over time.

Edited by bkc56

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