Sword prices after the new summoning

[Entropy]

I was wondering, how did the new summoning formulas affect the price of the swords?

Was there any change? Are they more valuable?

[BEAVER]

Was there any change? Are they more valuable?

 

Lol, nope.

[Learner]

Was there any change? Are they more valuable?

 

Lol, nope.

I think the excess stock will need to shrink a bit before prices will go up.

[Joshyboy]

give it mabie a moth and it should go up

[Daxon]

Will take longer than one month Joshy. Infact, could take up to several months before noticeable changes happen. Not 100% sure if some people actually try to gain levels using up the new summons, but if they are used for conventional PKing and hunting, it'll take longer.

[mauriciom]

I dont think ppl will use tit short for sum... i think the school idea... will work better for manu...

[chaoogie]

I have leveled 2 level's with just the new monsters, yay cycs, but it will take a month or 3 before there is a noticable change in prices, its great for all arounders cause some of us can be making 70 serp swords for another level or 2 of summon

[Gen_Axis]

Yeah, people will not use swords to summon creatures which are useless in fight (well they will just for fun or try, but not on large scale), gives crappy exp and are expensive. I tried some armed fem orcs, and IMO not worth the exp and gc's for them.

 

The only good exp is from cyclops, but this is ONLY a way to get fast summon exp WHEN you are uber rich for serps...

because still fluff is more eficient in fight and WAY cheaper.

[Longsh0t]

In my opinion: some rich players with a high summoning level and a huge stockpile of swords will gain a few levels. There will NOT be any noticable change in the market for swords (a missed opportunity if you'd ask me)

 

Just a comparison (im not taking into account mana costs):

 

Armed skeleton

1 Steel long sword: 475 gc

8 Bones: 4 gc

-------------------------------------

Total: 479 gc

 

Experience given: 607

 

Experience per gold coin: 607 / 479 = 1.26

 

Wolf

2 life essence 10 gc

2 raw meat 10 gc

1 Wolf fur 10 gc

3 Bones: 1.5 gc

-------------------------------------

Total: 31.5 gc

Experience given: 79

 

Experience per gold coin: 79 / 31.5 = 2.51

 

 

As you can see i get twice as much experience summoning wolves. Since hunting with summons is crazy (you dont get any fighting exp and the drops NEVER make it up for the expence), I won't make any armed skeletons and buy swords on the market.

 

Its just that there is a problem with the summoning skill. There is no benefit other than status (and maybe 1 or 2 guys from the top 10 are strong enough to PK with it).

Like I said in an other post: make summoning an animal actually be usefull, then the market acitivity will explode.

 

edit:

Now that I think about it, its a problem with the entire game itself (and the current market issues). The experience given is NOT logical, also the ability to make cash is NOT logical. Looking at this example: I make a higher level monster, but the experience i get decreases (relatively)!

 

Its the same with Alchemy: Making titanium bars (without buying supplies from the market or NPCs) is a stupid thing to do if you want cash, Fire essences are WAY faster to gain cash with. Yet titanium bars require a higher level in the skill!

 

Did i mention manufacturing yet? I'm not a manufacturer, but looking at the cost for a titanium long and the price at which you can sell it tells the story.

 

Don't get me wrong, i really like this game and its very cool that you (the developpers) are looking into this skill now , but i really feel that its not balanced enough...

Edited April 23, 2006 by Longsh0t

[Cycloonx]

Allthough it's good for me. I'm low manu (my only low skill) and now i'm making iron swords and get manu lvls and I can summon fem gobs > more exp > less meats needed to buy > profit for me And I level in 2 skills. It's cool :>

[petersohn]

But maybe you got more profit, if you sold your swords to Trik, buy meat and LE from the money and summon wolves.

[Blodoks]

New summoning formulas aren't homogeneous with the other summoning formulas

and they change the summoner's job: to store animal items, to make LE and

SRS potions.

Before these new summoning formulas, in my storage there are bones, meat,

furs, LE and SRS to rise my summoning from lvl 63 to lvl 67... now, thanks

to the swords that I'll make by myself, with the ingredients in my storage

(bones, meat, LE and SRS) I'll got summ lvl 82 (and I'll save the furs).

I used 1200 raw meats and 800 Le from lvl 63 to lvl 64... too easy and no

enjoy.

 

New system changed alchemy/potions with harvesting/manufacturing and sincerely

I don't see any relations between summoning and harvesting/manufacturing.

 

Last thing: fluffy and chimera need to be at the top... both for difficulty

and for exp points. Cyclops, orcs, etc are completly useless in pk map.

 

Blodoks

[Chance]

just real quickly, the logic may not be intuitive but it does exist. accelerating the amount of exp and value a player gets at higher levels can itself lead to imbalances in gameplay. the systems as they exist serve to keep a modicum of challenge in the game

[Longsh0t]

just real quickly, the logic may not be intuitive but it does exist. accelerating the amount of exp and value a player gets at higher levels can itself lead to imbalances in gameplay. the systems as they exist serve to keep a modicum of challenge in the game

Hmm so this game is challanging because if you want to do 'higher level' stuff, you get less benefits? That's indeed not intuitive.

 

You can only benefit from this if you make the swords yourself (as a summoner), that way you get at least some manufacturing exp.

 

 

I'd say, raise the xp for these new monsters JUST enough so that its better to make THEM instead of wolves. (if i get 1 experience point more for my cash than with wolves, im making these monsters and buying lots of swords)

[duran]

i think the idea is that summoners should not be making their own raw materials. problem is that right now, summoners have no income based on their summoning skill, and therefor have to make up for that by training other skills, making summoning more of a hobby...

[Dent]

I dont think you can accurately set a price on experience.

 

Instead, look at the benefits of the task versus the difficulty. I dont see how these monsters are much more difficult for a summoner, but the rewards are greater. They are different, yes, but not necessarily more difficult.

 

Most advanced players will use their other skills in game to facilitate summoning; just like a manufacturer will use harvesting and alchemy to create something. If you dont have the requisite skills yet, this is a golden opportunity for you to explore yet another facet of the game.

[Longsh0t]

Instead, look at the benefits of the task versus the difficulty. I dont see how these monsters are much more difficult for a summoner, but the rewards are greater. They are different, yes, but not necessarily more difficult.

 

Then explain to me please how these monsters are different and not more difficult. You say the rewards are greater, yes you are right if you look at the absolute numbers. But then you can also say that a monster which costs a Crown of Mana to summon and gives 50k experience is also a 'greater reward'.

 

Bottomline is you HAVE to think about it in terms of experience / cash, because there is no other benefit in summoning.

[duran]

a healthy economy would be one where a person could pick one skill and focus on it.

 

right now that cant happen. if you realy want to train manufacturing you have to support it with harvesting, anything else costs to much. same with alchemy, crafting and potions.

 

maybe, with time, can one start paying others to harvest or create the lower level items needed to make whatever item your planing to make.

 

if anything, harvesting is the most trained skill in this game. in itself not a problem, but when the reason is need rather then want its a problem.

 

summoning and magic, two skills that have no products to sell, are extra badly off in the current economic enviroment. as you have no chance of getting money if your main focus is on either of them, they are more like hobby skills, or basiclys skills that you do to burn up excess items from your other skills.

 

about the only skills that can stand on its own is attack and defense. a fighter can go out and kill all kinds of beasts, sell of the stuff they drop and then spend the money on whatever gear that they need.

 

as it is, the fighters live a seperate existence inside the economy of this game.

 

i just wish i had some quick, easy fixes. but i dont. the number of variables and so on are basicly to big.

[Longsh0t]

I 100% agree with you duran.

 

i just wish i had some quick, easy fixes. but i dont. the number of variables and so on are basicly to big.

1 option: total redesign of the EL economy *hides*

[Entropy]

I think you missed a few concepts:

The way the stuff was designed was so that you can not make a lot of money from one skill alone.

Instead, you will need to interact with other players to make money more efficiently.

One other thing, many of those swords were useles, and some of them couldn't even be sold to Trick. So by incorporating them in the summoning skill, they get out of the game rather than linger in the storage forever.

 

Finally, there will be one or two summonable monsters that will require a very high summoning skill (maybe 80), and will be relatively cheap to summon. So the whole summoning skill leveling up will be mainly for those monsters.

In addition to that, we are looking at some formula to make the summoned monsters stronger based on the summoner's skill.

[ville-v]

In addition to that, we are looking at some formula to make the summoned monsters stronger based on the summoner's skill.

 

So summoner with max level could summon at ip deer which is stronger than fluffy?

[Entropy]

The reason I said "we are looking at some formula" was to prevent things like that.

[vwpro]

blodoks will pwn )

[ttlanhil]

I think you missed a few concepts:

The way the stuff was designed was so that you can not make a lot of money from one skill alone.

this idea has ups and downs. on the up side, you force people to explore more of EL, and they may find someting they enjoy more. on the down side, it's tending towards people becoming experts in all skills, hence able to be self sufficient, which is a Bad Thing for an online game (interaction with other players is the whole point)

Instead, you will need to interact with other players to make money more efficiently.

nice idea, pity it doesn't work.

to buy ingredients for something on the market generally costs more than you will get for selling the end product. there are a few exceptions, things that there is a high level of demand for, mostly. that's either because said item is rare (more along the lines of requiring really high levels than rare finds, but the c2 rings came into the marketplace with a cost around 300-350gc, which was based on cost price. even on entry, it's based on low/no-profit), or because demand is high enough to outstrip supply (HE used to be like this, but doesn't seem to be anymore... even then, 7gc didn't leave much of a profit margin)

you might say "what about the xp?". which would be right. that's the reason to do it, the skills aren't there to make money (and despite what some people are saying, being able to make a profit isn't a bad thing, the prices dropping means there's less available gc, so it's not like we need to limit gc that much)

One other thing, many of those swords were useles, and some of them couldn't even be sold to Trick. So by incorporating them in the summoning skill, they get out of the game rather than linger in the storage forever.

there's no profit in selling to trik either (and should there be? bars are a somewhat limited commodity in numbers high enough to make big cash, because of the amount of work required to make them... making a little cash here to cover losses and entertainment isn't likely to hurt anyone). up to steel long you can sell to trik, yet many people probably still have stocks of these.

will people spend huge amounts of cash on surplus swords to get the XP? even though it's more cost efficient to buy stuff to summon animals? well, yes, some will. getting a larger hit of XP at once is nice.

will summoners buy enough to keep manu'ers busy? I doubt it (or if they did, how busy would people be harvesting and alch'ing to make sword ingredients? I might spend an hour making/getting the bars to turn into a dozen swords, which takes 2min, and I'm at the stage where I do buy all my FE and some of my bars/coal simply because I've done it for so long)

[Infamous]

I think you missed a few concepts:

The way the stuff was designed was so that you can not make a lot of money from one skill alone.

Instead, you will need to interact with other players to make money more efficiently.

One other thing, many of those swords were useles, and some of them couldn't even be sold to Trick. So by incorporating them in the summoning skill, they get out of the game rather than linger in the storage forever.

 

Finally, there will be one or two summonable monsters that will require a very high summoning skill (maybe 80), and will be relatively cheap to summon. So the whole summoning skill leveling up will be mainly for those monsters.

In addition to that, we are looking at some formula to make the summoned monsters stronger based on the summoner's skill.

 

would be cool if those 2 monsters start with 4/4 a/d and can lvl just like us..

for example you summon 1 and sit with it at a spawn so it kills some rabbits/rats etc. to gain exp.

it could die just like a normal summon though.

people suggested a pet system several times before, maybe it can be combined with the summoning skill like this? :]

Edited April 24, 2006 by Hardcore