Rosto's

[conavar]

I have got a couple of suggestions about the age old problem of rosto's. That problem being mainly from Pkers that they do not recieve any drops anymore because of them. What im suggesting does not involve the removal of them from the game ( I can see they have a place in it ) But as to how they operate within the game.

The first suggestion might be a bit radical and I expect plenty of negative comments on it .The 2nd one I think has been suggested in principle before but im just expanding upon it.

 

Suggestion 1)

 

Rosto's with Negative Effects :

 

I suggest that carrying a Rosto gives the character a negative effect ,this wont stop players using them but might make them think twice about having them in INV all the time.the effects can be broken down into tow catagories. Pre-Death Effects and Post Death Effects

 

Pre-Death Effects

 

These Effects continuosly happen aslong as the rosto is in the players INV.

Examples:

 

Causes a mana drain of 1-2 points per min

 

Halves the amount of mana available to the character

 

Gives a negative perk ie: Power Hungry,Hellspawn,I cant dance or a totally new unique perk just for the rosto

 

Post Death Effects

 

This effect takes place once (per rosto) on the players death.

Examples:

 

A random item is dropped

 

A random item is destroyed totally

 

The Character loses 5-15 material points permantly (untill leveled up again)

 

The character loses 1-3 Pickpockets from one or more random attribute

 

 

The effects can be kept seperate or combined ie: a rosto has a Pre-Death and Post Death effect

 

 

Suggestion 2)

 

Suggestion 2 is also the simplest answer for players wanting drops or spoils of war from PKing.

The suggestion is that the Rosto is not destroyed upon a player death but dropped in a DB, which can be kept for personal use or sold for market value.This give the player a guaranteed drop of item/items ( see below ).

The downside to this I can hear you all saying is that with Rosto's not being destroyed to many will appear ingame reducing there value and ingame balance.

Not if the Rosto Degrades over time :

 

Stage one Rosto:

 

Clear original rosto found by harv :

 

This acts as it does ingame now saving all the players items upon death but is dropped upon death and becomes stage 2

 

Stage two Rosto:

 

Red Rosto:

 

Saves all items kept in INV apart from one random un-equiped item.both item and rosto are dropped which becomes Stage 3

 

Stage Three Rosto:

 

Black Rosto:

 

Saves all items in INV apart from Two random items including those equiped.Rosto is destroyed

 

 

 

This would keep the Rosto's as we know them now from flooding the game and the price dropping (there would be no more original rostos ingame than there is normally) for no uber pker would want a black or red rosto (unless they had red and chose there INV items carfully),so the demand would be the same.The Rosto would reduce in price as it degraded with of course the black being the cheapest (maybe as little as a few thousand) which would put them in the price range of lower characters/players who just want to use them for monster training and dont mind losing 1 or 2 items instead of loads ( might upset bagjumpers but who cares )

 

Summary:

 

No more original rostos ingame than there is now ( price remains stable ).Pkers are guaranteed at least one item or rosto drop per conquest .

 

 

comments plz

Edited January 12, 2007 by conavar

[The_Piper]

Hmm..

 

whats about a simple change to the rosto?

 

It has a 90% chance to protect all your stuff and disappears, and a 10% chance that you keep the rosto, but you loose stuff like without a rosto?

 

Sounds less complicated to me.

 

Piper

[conavar]

Hmm..

 

whats about a simple change to the rosto?

 

It has a 90% chance to protect all your stuff and disappears, and a 10% chance that you keep the rosto, but you loose stuff like without a rosto?

 

Sounds less complicated to me.

 

Piper

 

True it is less complicated but doesnt guarantee a drop,and i know Pkers are hard to please they dont want to lose there own stuff but want others to drop theres

 

 

Edit: And to me the Rosto is one of the if not the most powerful item ingame at the min. just trying to redress the balance a bit.

Edited January 12, 2007 by conavar

[redsoxlovr10]

I like it, have a chance to loose 1 random item from your inv.

 

If the person has over 10 items in their inv not including the rosto, they will loose 1 random item when they die, if they have less than 10 items then they will not loose anything except the rosto, this will keep pk'ers from bringing like their whole stor to pk.

[brein]

Hmm..

 

whats about a simple change to the rosto?

 

It has a 90% chance to protect all your stuff and disappears, and a 10% chance that you keep the rosto, but you loose stuff like without a rosto?

 

Sounds less complicated to me.

 

Piper

 

Agree, or you lose about 2/3 less items than normall. But back to the topic, the negative effects are too painful for me...

Edited January 12, 2007 by brein

[Atlantis]

Examples:

 

Causes a mana drain of 1-2 points per min

 

Halves the amount of mana available to the character

 

Gives a negative perk ie: Power Hungry,Hellspawn,I cant dance or a totally new unique perk just for the rosto

Power hungry? I don't think pkers will loose much sleep over that

Gelatin bones works best for this imo, if not a new perk.

 

The Character loses 5-15 material points permantly (untill leveled up again)

 

The character loses 1-3 Pickpockets from one or more random attribute

THIS, is insane. Do you have any idea how long it takes to level 1-3 OAs @ high level? For me its like 3 mill xp each and takes around 3 days each, for some people its a lot more, like 2 weeks per oa.

 

Anyway, my proposal for a system:

Certain Items are undroppable. These include steel/tit plates, CoL, NMT cloak, Glowy Weapons. So, essences, potions, some weapons (such as the newer swords like cutlass, as well as regular older weps like serp), rings, etc become possible drops. Rostos are then removed from the game

[conavar]

The Character loses 5-15 material points permantly (untill leveled up again)

 

The character loses 1-3 Pickpockets from one or more random attribute

THIS, is insane. Do you have any idea how long it takes to level 1-3 OAs @ high level? For me its like 3 mill xp each and takes around 3 days each, for some people its a lot more, like 2 weeks per oa.

 

 

Anyway, my proposal for a system:

Certain Items are undroppable. These include steel/tit plates, CoL, NMT cloak, Glowy Weapons. So, essences, potions, some weapons (such as the newer swords like cutlass, as well as regular older weps like serp), rings, etc become possible drops. Rostos are then removed from the game

 

The character loses 1-3 Pickpockets from one or more random attribute

THIS, is insane. Do you have any idea how long it takes to level 1-3 OAs @ high level? For me its like 3 mill xp each and takes around 3 days each, for some people its a lot more, like 2 weeks per oa.

 

Thats the point .What would you rather risk losing items or PP ? at the moment carrying a rosto is risk free which for an item as powerful as it is is Wrong '

 

Certain Items are undroppable

 

So your idea is to only drop items you dont mind losing ?

Edited January 12, 2007 by conavar

[Baloney]

A more reasonable and realistic way IMO : Instead of 50% chance of loosing an item, the rosto lowers that to 10%. You want to be safer, carry 2 and have only 1% chance of loosing each item. The rule is then simple : If you absolutely don't want to loose your stuff, DON'T DIE, period. You die and loose some stuff, don't cry, you're the one who took the risk.

 

Then, if you succeed in killing someone, you have a chance to get some stuff.

 

Bal

[redsoxlovr10]

Hows this for an idea, have a system of checks and balances in this.

 

For everytime you pk somebody with a rosto in your inv, you have a percent chance of loosing a random item when you die. But if you die with rosto w/o pking anybody then you will loose nothing. So the more you pk people with rosto's in your inv the better the chance you have to loose items. Add maybe a 1% chance to loose something next time you die for every pk you get.

 

And once you die after pking somebody, this is reset all over again.

Edited January 12, 2007 by redsoxlovr10

[Atlantis]

For everytime you pk somebody with a rosto in your inv, you have a percent chance of loosing a random item when you die. But if you die with rosto w/o pking anybody then you will loose nothing. So the more you pk people with rosto's in your inv the better the chance you have to loose items. Add maybe a 1% chance to loose something next time you die for every pk you get.

So basically, we are encouraging people to PK less...

[pennifuin]

NO!

 

Rostos Need to go. Or at least become less potent.

 

You lose tit plate one day? Next day you kill somone, get plate back, its the way PKing works. Or should do anyway. Its just Players have been Wrapped up in cotton wool. One suggestion (imade in the other thread concering rostos) is tht items should either become less expensive, so people arent so bothered about losing them, so then Rostos can be abolished. The solutio i want to see put in place is that high priced items should become <b>rare</b>. Not rare as in expensive so people cant buy them, that doesnt make an item rare, just hard to obtain. Rare as in limited stock to the player populace.

[Atlantis]

So your idea is to only drop items you dont mind losing ?

People aren't going to PK with a chance to loose weeks worth of work just because they died...it'd completely take the fun out of PKing.

[redsoxlovr10]

So your idea is to only drop items you dont mind losing ?

People aren't going to PK with a chance to loose weeks worth of work just because they died...it'd completely take the fun out of PKing.

 

But thats the chance you make, cause then the person that got the item that took weeks to get just basically won the EL lottery. Its basically a double or nothing type of bet.

[Atlantis]

So your idea is to only drop items you dont mind losing ?

People aren't going to PK with a chance to loose weeks worth of work just because they died...it'd completely take the fun out of PKing.

 

But thats the chance you make, cause then the person that got the item that took weeks to get just basically won the EL lottery. Its basically a double or nothing type of bet.

Care to read?

 

I was referring to loosing 3 pp for nothing, not "winning the EL lottery" by dropping items

[pennifuin]

READ MY POST >.< *^

[redsoxlovr10]

READ MY POST >.< *^

 

Lol, we all read it, just didn't have a reason to respond to it cause its been discussed so many times before, and Atlantis, i did read i just misinterprted what you said, no need to be angry at me

[conavar]

So your idea is to only drop items you dont mind losing ?

People aren't going to PK with a chance to loose weeks worth of work just because they died...it'd completely take the fun out of PKing.

 

 

I totally understand what you are saying but at the moment PKing is basically PvP training no risk to lose anything etc.

The rostos would mostly effect PKers but arnt they the ones who complain about having no drops ?

Im not saying its you personally Atlantis but seems most PKers want the rewards without the risk but if you dont have a risk theres no rewards. Maybe the PP loss was a bit extreme but it was only an example of what Risks could be implemented.

I personall prefer suggestion 2. guaranteed drop of one kind or another.

 

Im not a Pker so I dont personally care if Joe Bloggs doesnt drop bugger all but the suggestions forum are about making the game more fun for all . wether they be Alch.Manu or Pk.

 

The biggest problem seems to be (and maybe its me just being differant) is that peopel put to much materalistic worth on ingame items.Does it really matter in the great scheme of things if you drop Items .... no it doesnt its just an inconvience. the worlds not going to end.

Would I be pissed if i lost my mage staff,COL etc yeah of course i would but i would make money and buy them again.People are not so much worried about losing Items but of having to work to replace them

[pennifuin]

[The biggest problem seems to be (and maybe its me just being differant) is that peopel put to much materalistic worth on ingame items.Does it really matter in the great scheme of things if you drop Items .... no it doesnt its just an inconvience. the worlds not going to end.

Would I be pissed if i lost my mage staff,COL etc yeah of course i would but i would make money and buy them again.People are not so much worried about losing Items but of having to work to replace them

 

 

The problem is that peopleput a high value on these thing because it takes a long time to earn GC to buy these items/gather ingreds for these items (or it costs RL $). The only reason people are protective over property is because of what it means financially and in time lost. Lower both these and PKing should open up. Its like most things in EL, yeah the strive for items can be rewarding...but is there balance between strive/reward and more importantly fun? And yeah, people get used to changes that make things more challening. But is making something more challenging the best way forward? a frustrated player, is an unhappy one. Unhappy players dont come back to games.

 

Thats my 2 dubloons anyway.

[Isenguard]

NO! leave rosts in the game the way they are. I know what it feels like to lose equipment that valued over 100k it sux trying to get it back when your poor. Leave rosts the way they are just maybe increase the price and make another type of rost that has 75% chance of keeping items. But at least leave it where there is 1 type of rost you can get that is 100% chance you don't lose items.

 

#edit: that would kill pking also because it would make people scared of losing their items i go without rost anyway atm because i can't afford 1 but i still don't complain when i die and i haven't even seen some of the people replying to this topic at pk maps before so if you don't pk there really is no reason for you to have rost it was made for the fighters so they could go in their best armor w/o the worrie of losing their weeks of work staying up all night trying to get the stuff u just took becuase theres no more rosts in el. so keep them in

Edited January 12, 2007 by Isenguard

[pennifuin]

See what Isengaard is saying? Sums it up totally. People are scared to lose their items. People dont want to lose stuff because obtaining it and using isnt worth the risk of losing it...comprende?

 

Rosts have moddy-coddled people into not being able to deal with losing items, therefore they use the rosts. This is bad for PvP because people make no money or gain advantage from it.

 

Way to beat it No 1: make them go cold turkey.

 

No 2: Decrease value of items(by setting reasonable prices for ingreds through finite resources)

 

No 3: Make cash earning less of a grind.

[Schmurk]

I really like the second suggestion! I think it's a very good way to make all ppl happy. PKers will have at least one drop (a rosto) and ppl who are killed will still lose their rosto but don't lose their equipment. I also really like the many stages of the rosto because it will allow low players to use them. Moreover, nowadays it's useless to carry a rosto if you wear a full iron plate because it just worth the price of a rosto. But, if you have for example red or black rostos you can use one and you can go PKing or kill monsters a little bit safer

IMO it's a great idea!

[masterpiter]

2nd suggestion is nice, but i still like oldschool PK map/day sugestion better. It would not only bring PKing back to life, but give a clue to newcomers how were the things in the "old" days .

 

eMPi

[trollson]

Some people are not interested in PK, but have to go through dangerous areas; the Rostogol Stone serves as insurance in these situations.

 

Some options which haven't been discussed (AFAIK), and trying to keep any change simple:

 

Rostogol Stones are Non-Storable

You now have to carry all your rostogol stones on you, and lose all of them if you die.

 

Of course, this can be circumvented by having other characters and 'bots hold stocks safely for you; so it may be seen as favouring the more connected players.

Carrying a Rostogol Stone prevents Initiating Combat

Carrying a Rostogol Stone is a declaration of peaceful intent; as such you are prevented from initiating

any

combat (character or monster). You can still

be

attacked, and then you fight as normal.

 

If you want to go hunting, then take the risk and don't carry the stone.

 

Sure, a character could tool-up with a stone and loiter in a PK area waiting to be attacked; but then it is upto other characters to attack him.

 

Likewise, a vallet carries a stone and so can safely hold the loot for their knight in the field. But this is a nice piece of teamwork and game play rather than an exploit, and the knight's fighting gear is still risked.

Rostogol Stone as a Virtual Item?

Adding this from the thread on

"Virtual Items"

, would mean that a Rostogol Stone cannot be transferred (hon-storable, non-tradable, and lost if dropped).

 

Not sure this would be appropriate though....

Don't Sell Rostogol Stones in the Game Shop

Is the problem with the availability of these stones in the game? If they where rarer would the problem subside?

 

Anything that can be bought in the game shop can appear in disproportionate numbers in the game; how does this compare to their rate of discovery from mining?

 

Unfortunately we don't have the figures to assess this.

 

Other comments:

 

PK perspective

Most critisisms and suggested changes to the Rostogol Stone are made from a PK standpoint. However, their use is not confined to PK; they serve as 'insurance' against mishap in other situtations as well. For example, I last carried one when I had 200k gc worth of books on my person; I wasn't going anywhere dangerous, but even so it wasn't worth the risk not to take the insurance.

 

Therefore, suggestioned changes for PK use should have not disable its use in non-PK situations (mining mishaps, wandering monster attacks, traps etc). Ideally if you are changing something for one context, avoid that change affecting other contexts also.

Partial stack drops

Not directly related to Rostogol Stone, but this can have an effect on alternative suggestions...

 

On death, each inventory slot (including equipment) has, say, a 40% chance of being dropped. So, a stack of 10,000 gc will either be entirely lost, or entirely kept by the deceased.

 

Would it be fairer to give each item a 40% chance of being dropped? Such that, on average, 4k gc would be dropped out of a 10k gc stack.

 

I do not suggest that exactly 40% is dropped each time; but rather each item is give that chance to be dropped or not.

 

This does not require 10,000 die rolls either! A binomial random number

[1]

will give you a number to be dropped directly. For example:

int dropped = binomial_random ( 0.40, 10000);

When you have this functionality, small changes to the drop percentage have immedate effect. In addition, adding a small loss percentage would add some interesting intra-character dynamics...

[1] This functionality available, for example, in the GNU Scientific Library; gsl_rand_binomial(). The algorithm can also be obtained and implimented directly.

Edited January 12, 2007 by trollson

[Baloney]

Simpler :

-No drops in arenas (no rost needed) so you can pvp safely (safely for your gear that is)

-5 % or 10 % chance to lose item with rosto on pk maps, normal drop rate without.

-non storable rosts OR rost takes 75% of your EMU

 

Don't go in pk maps with things you can't afford to lose (anyway, even with Rosto, your item can break, so what's the difference). You want to be flashy with your uber equipment, then stay in arenas.

 

This would also help average level ppl going to pk maps (for PK or other purposes) since there would be less uber-geared ppl there (what average player can stand against a full tit/COL/cutlass).

 

Bal

 

Yes, i do think Rosts are way too numerous in the game.

[Nidan]

i like the idea of the rosto in several stages. It has the benefits of how the rosto is used now. If you want to, you can make sure you lose no items by carrying a brand new rosto.

 

Another way, thats probably easier to implement: Rosto protects all your gear like it does now, but when you die it has a 50% chance to drop or be destroyed.

 

Pkers will have 50% chance of getting a drop, while the rosto's still slowly disappear from the game.