Guild wars

[giannis]

don't tell me That this has been suggested b4, I kow, i was the one to suggest it almost a year ago (that was my first post and the only reason i registered in the forums on the first place) However, although i believe that this is a good idea, it seems to have been forghoten so I am doing my duty here in refreshing your memory.

 

Ok it came to my attention that if you look at guild websites they always have a list with guilds that they are at war with and guilds that they are allied with. Moreover It is funny if you think that there are guilds fighting for the total domination in el... but they are not given a chance to do so.

 

The way the game is, guilds offfer little to the storyline or the gameplay, although they desperetly try to do so. Having said that i know this post is legthy but plz bare with me ... and i would appreciate any coment you make ....

 

So here comes my suggestion. there should be a new command (declare_war <name>) that declares war to a guild. To prevent abuse and stornger guilds attacking weaker guilds both parties should type the command (you would require a level 19 atleast) once both parties/guild-leaders have typed the command the two Guilds are officialy at war with each other!

 

What that means is that you can attack members of the opposing guild and they can attack you whenever you meet them in which ever map (except newbee island)

 

I think that would spice up things a bit.... imagine epic wars infront of the tit mines for control of the resources, or sudden raides near places where guilds mass produce (Hmm... maybe you should not fight near storages)... urban battles for controll of the fruit stand at portland etc. etc.

 

If ppl don't like fighing ... then they can join a peacefull guild.

In the same spirit there should be a #ally_guild <name> command (again both parties should agree). Allied guilds enter a war automaticly when their allies enter a war.

 

Similarly summoned annimals of allied guilds don't attack allies but only enemies.

 

 

Fianally after lots and lots of negotiations, and lots and lots of blood 2 guilds can declare peace (#declare_peace <name>) and the hostilities will stop....

 

I might be wrong, but i think this would only require a server side implementation and if one considers the IQ of the ppl that work on the server and what they mayde possible in less than six month, i think that this would be moderetly easy for them to implement.

[ttlanhil]

the only problem is if a guild in a large alliance network declares war on another one... then half of serdia could be thrown into war by just a few semi-newbie guildmasters.

 

having diplomacy and war and all that would be neat though

[Mr.Mind]

I like the idea.

[pennifuin]

yeah sounds good man, to hell with diplomacy >

[giannis]

the only problem is if a guild in a large alliance network declares war on another one... then half of serdia could be thrown into war by just a few semi-newbie guildmasters.

 

having diplomacy and war and all that would be neat though

171938[/snapback]

 

Then you should have better criteria in choosing your allies. Alliences should not been taken lightly but should be agreed after a long negotiation/discussion.

 

Anyhow you did point out a problem and here is a nice way to get out from an apparent predicament.

 

When a Guild enters on a War the allies are not automaticly included. They have the option to declare war on the other Guild, but only if they want to. Remeber, to start a war you need concent from both sides, however if you are an allie you just type #declare_war <guild> and you are in the war 2 (wether the other guild likes it or not), the other guild does not have to declare war on you. Simmilarly I guess you can choose not to enter the war and that drops you from your allies list of allies (or something like that).

 

EDIT: Typos.

Edited June 19, 2005 by giannis

[Roja]

I also like the idea. Unfortunetly it will have to take a backseat, at least for a few months, as we're really busy getting other things done right now. But I will keep this in mind for sure.

[giannis]

I also like the idea. Unfortunetly it will have to take a backseat, at least for a few months, as we're really busy getting other things done right now. But I will keep this in mind for sure.

171956[/snapback]

 

Thank you roja your rule... and rock.. and kick ass... and pwn.... Dude you Rule, can't wait

[behindthemask08]

the only problem is if a guild in a large alliance network declares war on another one... then half of serdia could be thrown into war by just a few semi-newbie guildmasters.

 

exactly - then your alliancces would become more valuable and add a market for MERCENARIES *evil laugh*

 

*thought bubble* i could be a mercenary agent and find jobs for the unemployed mercenaryies

[chickengeorge]any new openings?

[behindthemask08]ummm...x-guild wants you to battle y-guild on saturday and help gaurd the newbs against attack when harvesting.

[chickengeorge] kewl, whats it pay?

[behindthemask08] 10k per hour battleing or 2k per hour guarding the mines

 

lol fighter PIMP

[roadkillbunny]

The way the game is, guilds offfer little to the storyline or the gameplay, although they desperetly try to do so. Having said that i know this post is legthy but plz bare with me ... and i would appreciate any coment you make ....

That's what I like mainly about this idea. Currently guilds are just a group of people with a name beside them, I dunno why you even need to register. (I might be wrong about this, I'm kinda new.) Having wars between guilds would be cool.

 

What that means is that you can attack members of the opposing guild and they can attack you whenever you meet them in which ever map (except newbee island)

So basically every map is a PK map for guilds at war? Good idea, and as you said make storages "kill free".

 

I think that would spice up things a bit.... imagine epic wars infront of the tit mines for control of the resources, or sudden raides near places where guilds mass produce (Hmm... maybe you should not fight near storages)... urban battles for controll of the fruit stand at portland etc. etc.

How would this affect non-guilders and guilds not at war? Because then the guilds wouldn't really control the mine, just keep the other guild away.

 

In the same spirit there should be a #ally_guild <name> command (again both parties should agree). Allied guilds enter a war automaticly when their allies enter a war.

That's how World War I started... Serbia killed the Hungary's prince. Hungary got mad at them and declared war. Serbia was allied with Russia, so Russia declares war on Hungary. Hungary is allied with Germany so now Germany is at war. Of course Russia has the English and French as allies... Or something like that, I need to review. I've got a exam on it on Tuesday So as it has been mentioned, allies should not be automatily at war. Maybe just change the guild name of the other guild if they are at war with their allies?

[ttlanhil]

ooh, and espionage!

 

plus this would work even better of the guilds/alliances had holdings... like castles as one example I spose

[behindthemask08]

tho currently it is too easey to change sides, if my guild is losing, i simply #leave_guild and now i am not harassed by opposing guilds. come to think of it - thats good, you scatter the enemy and emerge a strong guild amoung many guildless players, lol superpower guilds.

[ttlanhil]

tho currently it is too easey to change sides, if my guild is losing, i simply #leave_guild and now i am not harassed by opposing guilds. come to think of it - thats good, you scatter the enemy and emerge a strong guild amoung many guildless players, lol superpower guilds.

172034[/snapback]

there are bonuses for joining a guild, but unles syou pick one with a bad rep, no real downsides... this could add some and make being a loner have some value to it

[behindthemask08]

Players could even be taken hostage, and "chained up". Have hostage trades take place in neutral areas like storage.

[MarantZ]

Giannis.... Great idea!

[trollson]

Good idea, would add interesting knife-edge to the politics.

 

However, I think that a free '#declare_war' would be too arbitary and open to abuse. Some casus belli should be necessary to prevent chaos...

 

For instance, base 'casus belli' on a count of your Guild members killed by the other Guild. Only the 'victim' Guild is able to declare war, which would prevent larger Guilds from arbitarily picking on smaller peaceful Guilds.

 

More factors need to be included in this 'relationship' table. A more complete list would be:

• -1 per Guild member killed by the other Guild (unless at war).
  
• x 0.9 per week as past deeds are forgotten.
  
• GuildMaster may +/- charm points per week across all relationships. These actions should be published to members of both Guilds (being charmed or offended).
  
• Adjustments based on rules such as my enemy's enemy is my friend. More extreme views are rewarded in the opposite direction.
  
• -20 relationship allows a 'casus belli', and a declaration of war to be available (though it does not have to be made!).
  
• +20 relationship is an alliance, and allows a 'casus belli' with any Guild to whom the allied Guild is at war (again, does not need to be acted upon). Such wars would stop if the ally comes to peace.
  
• A relationship rising to -10 or higher cancels any active war.
  
• A relationship dropping to +10 or less cancels any war as a result of an alliance.
  

(Values above are for illustrative purposes only!)

 

I've used relationship matrices like this in simulations in the past, and they do produce believable dynamics.

Edited June 19, 2005 by trollson

[behindthemask08]

i believe that both guilds (guild leaders) have to agree to declare war. 1 side suggests, then the other accepts or declines.

something like:

guild leader X : #declare_war guild_y

guild leader Y : #declare_war guild_x -OR- if leader Y doesn't reply with it no one is at war

[Brom]

I MUD, Play MUDs (Multi-user-Demension or Dungeon) anyway one of the ones Im in the higher players for has a GREAT clan system.... clan=guild and I will work on getting a hold of how they do it, I will not be able to code it but give me a little time and I will spit it out here, at least a day Then you can tell me what you think.

[epervier]

It's a great idea BUT, almost no guild will accept doing that since only 2 or 3 guilds are powerfull enough to fight evenly.

Even if they are at war the weakest guild will never type that command, since they will be pked on sight on any map.

 

Can u imagine harvesting naked with excavator cloak and all the sudden 2 enemies fully armed start attacking you?

 

Good idea but still needs a few tweaks

[Brom]

OK epervier I tweaked it And this is subject to change

 

First a simple system, similar to the one suggested above. allow guilds to make war with a simple command.

#guildwar <guild>

#guildally <guild>

and fight to the death on all maps!

 

OR

 

DISCLAIMER: If you are going to make comments on my guild Diplomacy idea, please read and understand the WHOLE thing.

 

[GuildWARAdvocacy]

Guild Diplomacy with Stances/Scores:

Stances:

WAR: ONLY temporary, more to be explained below

ENEMY: Hatred toward another guild.

NEUTRAL: No stance either way.

FRIEND: Aggree on things and commonly converse and a hospitable to eachother.

ALLY: Similar to having the same guild, this is not to be taken lightly.

 

Every guild will start with a score of 0.

Every guild will start with the stance of Neutral to every other guild.

 

Guilds can change their stances with other guilds using a simple command.

#change_guild_stance <guild> <stance>

Example #change_guild_stance <Eternal Guards> <friend> It would be easier with a guild tag than the name.

 

In changing guild stance, you can only change your guild stance with a guild 1 slot either way for every 1 day. That way when a guild gets into a war, if they do not already have alliances it will take time before they can get some. Also I would add that their are limits to how many allies a guild can have, 3-5 I think will be enough. Some of the reasons for this are; Guilds who simply are passive and want to be allied with everyone, For those guilds I recommend using "Friend" Guilds will receive a very small amount of guild points for alliances and holding them, which will cause guilds to WANT to ally.

 

GUILD WARS:

When guilds both have Enemy set to eachother one guild can choose to:

#declare_guildwar <guild>

And the opposing guild would need to:

#accept_guildwar <guild>

Or after three days "realtime" the guild that declared would be awarded a small amount of points

and the guild that did not accept would be demoted that same amount of points.

More warring commands:

#accept_guildwar_alliance <guild>

#accept_guildwar_enemy <guild> (for alliances wishing to join)

Only for use when an allied guild wishes to join into the fighting of the guild you are warring against.

All guilds involved have to comply with the joining of another guild.

#guildwar_surrender <guild>

Where both the guilds stances would change back to Neutral and a timer would start before they could change guild stance with that guild again, Several days. Should the guild not surrender they will be forced to once the kills mount high enough or the war drags on long enough and the Moderators (As a group) decide to end the war in one guilds favor.

 

War conditions:

First war condition, Maps.

This one is debatable as it would take a lot to set it up, but I feel that the guild wars should be able to happen on most maps but not all. IP for example. I do not think having a war in a city would be out of the way however, it would add to gameplay quite well. PK maps will of course always be included in war. but I think the rest should be up to the guildmasters in the war, as both guilds agreed to do the war they should be able to hold a war counsel and decide on terms.

Simple commands to do this:

#Add_Guildwar_map <map>

Example: #Add_Guildwar_map <Desert Pines> or <ALL>

 

Second war condition, Drops.

Why not have a way to change the precentage on drops in a war. I would recommend a smaller precentage (10%) as that would increase the fighting, but other guilds may want to have a winner take all fight and set the drop precentage to the opposing guild

to 100%

#Guildwar_dropPrecent <precent>

Example: #guildwar_dropPrecent <10> or <100> or <1>

 

Third war condition, Points/Deaths

Here is where you determine the points that one guild should obtain if you do not wish to fight forever. Any or all of these options could be used, the first one set off ends the war, Surrender, Time or points.

#guildwar_Wincondition <Points/Surrender>

Example: #guildwar_Wincondition <200> or <Surrender> or <Time Limit> (Surrender meaning the war would only stop if one guild surrenders)

Time limit suggested by behindthemask08

 

Fourth war condition, Mercenaries (Thanks to Halamaker)

Guilds will want to option to allow people to join their guilds during the war or set it so that no extra people can be "Signed on"

#Guildwar_MercsAllowed <Guild>

 

Time constrants:

I recommend that a guild can only fight one war at a time, they can fight allies if the allies wish to join in the war. I also recommend that guild allies be taken quite seriously, not just a casual "I like this guild, lets ally!" But in the spirit of RolePlaying we hope they share common goals and connections.

 

Points in war:

As you can see this would incorporate a lot more guild play and we could make use of those extra levels

in guild ranking. I would also like to use those guild rankings to distrubite points in a war. the Guild Master would be worth the most points if you kill him/her, but then the points gradually decrease as you get lower in the list. Should one guild be taking on 2 allied guilds then the points would increase .25Xnormal points. If 3 on 1 .50Xnormal and so on also you should know that whenever a kill is made the guild that lost that player would lose points while the other gained points.

 

Points:

I have been pushing for a guild ranking system for a long time, we simply cannot measure a guilds activity and how "fun" the guild is, but we can measure stats and diplomacy if this system is implemented. We could go lots of ways with ranking and point distobution, I recommend we have guild points based mainly on stats and diplomacy, then we may have wars, and depending on the outcome of the war and increase or decrease of guild points. Here is hoping. Note: Also should this be implemented we will Moderators to watch over guild wars, yes more things for the Mods to do

 

NON-Warring Guild

Stats - Points yet to be determined but points awarded for high guild-average of a given skill.

Embargo: The ability to set trade allowances with other guilds.

Settings:

- Normal

- Embargo, No trade to guild. Trade can still come in from this guild, but it will be unlikly it will happen.

Comments: Unfortunately, Embargos are not THAT powerful because they can simply get items from others... humm...

 

Trade agreements

Possibly tied with alliances, a way to award points for establishing legal trade between two guilds, a "trade route" Points will be awarded based on the number and quality of the trades.

 

Guild event: When a guild hosts a game event some guild points may be given from Admins to the guild, If an admin/mod is in your guild the points would need to come from a admin/mod not in the guild. Example:

SegV's recent Haunted House event. +40 points

Simple scavenger hunt event. +10 points (these are more complex than you would think)

Manhunts: +0 points, it was not a guild event

LNX Guild for being awesome: +100 points (Yes this is a joke)

Alliances: It will be difficult to award points for these, In my above statement I think putting a limit on the number of alliances would be the best, but Erg. Points for allies is a hard thing to do.

Perhaps based on time. But it would have to become less points as time went on. Breaking alliances would deduct points... Example

 

New alliance: +10 points

20 days: +7 points

60 days: +5 points

120 days: +3 points

Every 50 days after that: +2 points

Breaking alliances: -15 point

 

I have personally played under this system similar to this in the MUD I play and it works well. When a guild finds they have been beaten enough or their guild score has dropped quite a lot they will surrender or suffer a crippling score. Using the above stance and war system it will be quite possible for a guild to remain passive and not involved. or if they feel like it only get in fights with guilds they have personal grudges with and feel that they can defeat. One point I have not yet figured out is what to do if Part of the guild wants to fight but others do not, I will leave this of course up to the guilds to decide, If only 1-2 members do not want to fight they can leave the guild until the war is over. I will NOT give a command for the guild member to be excluded from the war, as that would not promote guild unity. I would allow for such a command IF for every guild member that wants to be excluded that guild would receive a demotion in points right off.

 

[/GuildWARAdvocacy]

DISCLAIMER: If you are going to make comments on my guild Diplomacy idea, please read and understand the WHOLE thing.

 

Edit: Updated with additional information.

Edited October 28, 2005 by Brom

[scarr]

People can abuse it by declaring war to friends and pvp train close to storages ;>

[Zep]

the only problem is if a guild in a large alliance network declares war on another one... then half of serdia could be thrown into war by just a few semi-newbie guildmasters.

 

having diplomacy and war and all that would be neat though

171938[/snapback]

 

Then maybe flimisy alliances should never be made =)

 

I really like the idea, It would fit well with our RP. Should probably have that guild command limited to high level guild members tho =)

 

*as for training near storage, you can practicly do that now.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Zep

[Halakermaker]

Well if all the strong people from one guild leave and the other guild thinks they will have a chance to win. Could the strong people rejoin and kill them all or would they have to wait for war to be over before rejoining?

[Brom]

Halamaker: sorry I had forgot this part, It should be under the time constraits section, while in a war you cannot enlist anyone into your guild, you will need to wait until the war is over. I expect, more like wish that wars will not last more than a few days. Then again, another idea is that we could have "Mercenaries" that could temporaraily join up for the war. But if we allow Merc's It might defeat the purpose of the war, I suppose that could also be discussed in the guild war counsel.

#Guildwar_MercsAllowed <Guild>

Once again both guilds must agree and that will allow people to join the guild during the war.

 

Shivar: Abuse with any guild war will happen, but do you think it would be a good idea to allow for no exp increase for guild war fights? I mean the purpose of the war is to resolve disputes or to make your guild higher in respect. I do not think fighting in a guild war should really increase your attack/defense. But that one is up for discussion. Another solution could be to inform the moderators and they can lock those guilds from warring indefinately or for a certain amount of time, setting their stances to neutral.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Brom

[kl4Uz]

That's how World War I started... Serbia killed the Hungary's prince. Hungary got mad at them and declared war. Serbia was allied with Russia, so Russia declares war on Hungary. Hungary is allied with Germany so now Germany is at war. Of course Russia has the English and French as allies... Or something like that, I need to review. I've got a exam on it on Tuesday  So as it has been mentioned, allies should not be automatily at war. Maybe just change the guild name of the other guild if they are at war with their allies?

172028[/snapback]

 

Well in fact it was the Austrian-Hungarian "Kronprinz Franz Ferdinand" who would have been become Emperor of Austria ("Kaiser") and King of Hungary. Hungary was part of the Empire of Austria until 1867, when it became autonomus and equal to Austria, afterwards the Empire was called "Austria-Hungary" until 1918, when everything broke up. And it was Austria who declared war on Serbia in 1914

 

But well, back to topic :lol:

[behindthemask08]

Brom - Thats a good idea but a little complex.

1) simply have less commands

#declare_war <guild>

#accept_war <guild>

#surrender_war

#guild_stance <guild> <stance(ally, neutral, enemy)>

 

Frankly, the rest is so complicated it would take too long to decide on what the conditions of the war would be. The only way to end the war would be to #surrender_war. This would not allow abuse.