Invance Helping and Gear Poll

[Aislinn]

Simple poll.

We are voting on two simple additions to the invance ruleset. First, we are voting on whether or not it is acceptable to hang around doing nothing in any location for any reason at any time.

A reminder of what else is considered helping and what one could be doing instead of standing around waiting for others to finish or do the "hard stuff":

Melee solo

Melee group

Ranging

Healing

Summoning and stones

Gate keeper

Supply provider

Scouting

 

Second, we are voting on whether or not we want to define "good gear" in terms of the barest minimum we are willing to accept in an invance.

 

Minimum gear we are voting on:

40-60: Augmented leather set, titanium long sword

60-80 and up:

Combat: Iron plate/cuisses/greaves (can substitute tit chainmail), CoL, Titanium Serpent Sword

Summoners: mage robes, CoM

 

 

Gear tweaking may be considered if we feel there are some good points we missed, but remember, we're not voting on strategy and our opinions on what is best to bring, but a bare minimum to clarify the invance ruleset.

[patpatshow]

those gear requirements are extremely easy to meet even if it is your first month playing this game

[Cabman]

I voted NO for the gear requirement. Requiring 220kgc in gear minimum for 60-80? Might as well just not run them....

[SmurF]

I voted NO for the gear requirement. Requiring 220kgc in gear minimum for 60-80? Might as well just not run them....

 

If you can't afford an iron set and a CoL/RDHoLaM it might not be the best idea for you to be going anyway.

 

 

Also I believe the minimum armor for the 100-120 and 120+ should at least be steel or titanium.

Edited September 18, 2012 by SmurF

[weaverdas]

I am confused...One example, start invance melee, finish invance as a ranger when only large mobs are left(I often do this), go through 200 pk arrows or so, no time to restock, last couple of mobs are engaged. I think this question needs a much better definition.

-edit: Please let me know if I misunderstood this question.

Edited September 18, 2012 by weaverdas

[Aislinn]

I am confused...One example, start invance melee, finish invance as a ranger when only large mobs are left(I often do this), go through 200 pk arrows or so, no time to restock, last couple of mobs are engaged. I think this question needs a much better definition.

-edit: Please let me know if I misunderstood this question.

It's probably best if you read this thread first then:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57405

[weaverdas]

I knew there was another thread about this. I tried to consider the poll as written without being influenced by others opinions.

[CherUT]

I think the minimum requirement for 100-120 should be steel and the 120+ should be titanium.

[weaverdas]

I agree with minimum gear requirements. How do you define it though? Have to have col or rdholam? Weapon requirement? Should rangers have a specific # of pk arrows to use?

[Munk]

I don't think it is a good idea to have a Steel chainmail required in 4060... I will just scare away participants and make team building harder.

 

In the lower invances you still learn how to survive. And at that stage you want nothing more than good armour! But if you die it may just get lost. If it happens twice (lot's of work in between... ... ...) you maybe never will want to take part in an invance for let's say ... a very long time...

 

I don't think it is wise to put everything in hard coded rules. - Most cases are already covered by the "you must help your team" rule. First timers/new characters can even help the team by getting to know how it works and to come back more powerful in a next invance.

 

Sadly it is not possible to vote separately for different invances. I think there may be elder players who think of higher invances and also vote for lower invances they maybe never visited.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Munk

[Aislinn]

@weaverdas: Read my post that goes with the poll, read the other thread, and read the pinned invance rules in the Rules section in forums. All your questions are answered there.

 

@Munk: I said we'd look at tweaking per level, and to please post if you have a reason the gear listed for your level isn't right, which you did. If many feel like you do for 4060, we'll relook at that.

[Infamous]

voted yes on both, outright afking with the intention of getting exp for minimum amount of effort is different from refusing to help someone cause of personal grudges, getting mana etc. or stand around with just a few left if you got no supplies.. go restock and miss the finish? lol

 

keep in mind how do you prove people are not refilling mana while they stand around? do you expect them to summon away the mana they try to regain to be more helpfull fighting rather then summoning worthless rabbits? or have to spend even more gc on stones, new bow, arrows and summon stones on top of gear requirements? (depending on gear results ofc)

 

result won't matter much to me personally anyway, didn't went to invances much cause of complaining/whining, now i can stop doing them alltogether to prevent getting in trouble cause of all the rules in a fun addition to the game.

invances are fun but with all these added extra rules etc you have to focus more on the rules rather then having fun participating.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Infamous

[Aislinn]

It isn't extra rules, it's clarifying 2 that are already there.

[weaverdas]

outright afking with the intention o

voted yes on both, outright afking with the intention of getting exp for minimum amount of effort is different from refusing to help someone cause of personal grudges, getting mana etc. or stand around with just a few left if you got no supplies.. go restock and miss the finish? lol

 

keep in mind how do you prove people are not refilling mana while they stand around? do you expect them to summon away the mana they try to regain to be more helpfull fighting rather then summoning worthless rabbits? or have to spend even more gc on stones, new bow, arrows and summon stones on top of gear requirements? (depending on gear results ofc)

 

result won't matter much to me personally anyway, didn't went to invances much cause of complaining/whining, now i can stop doing them alltogether to prevent getting in trouble cause of all the rules in a fun addition to the game.

invances are fun but with all these added extra rules etc you have to focus more on the rules rather then having fun participating.

f getting exp for minimum amount of effort is different from refusing to help someone cause of personal grudg

voted yes on both, es, getting mana etc. or stand around with just a few left if you got no supplies.. go restock and miss the finish? lol

 

keep in mind how do you prove people are not refilling mana while they stand around? do you expect them to summon away the mana they try to regain to be more helpfull fighting rather then summoning worthless rabbits? or have to spend even more gc on stones, new bow, arrows and summon stones on top of gear requirements? (depending on gear results ofc)

 

result won't matter much to me personally anyway, didn't went to invances much cause of complaining/whining, now i can stop doing them alltogether to prevent getting in trouble cause of all the rules in a fun addition to the game.

invances are fun but with all these added extra rules etc you have to focus more on the rules rather then having fun participating.

wow. strange interpretation of posts (especially if you were referring to mine)

[OlenTheRed]

Are these requirements for players tanking, ranging, and summoning in 60_80 or just the tanks. I dont have the human to go any longer and im topped out almost in that a/d lvl, although i think i could wear a red dragon helm with human four.

 

Being afk and taking a reward is a really nub thing to do also.

[scowper]

I think that there will need to be minimum gear tweaks

 

I go in as a summoner and do not wear armor, I use mage robes / CoM / MoM for the most part. I need the items that provide max mana for my summons.

 

Rangers may be in the same situation with items like camo cape etc...

 

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Ingame name: JRats

[Entropy]

I think that there will need to be minimum gear tweaks

 

I go in as a summoner and do not wear armor, I use mage robes / CoM / MoM for the most part. I need the items that provide max mana for my summons.

 

Rangers may be in the same situation with items like camo cape etc...

 

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Ingame name: JRats

 

Then do you fight the non bosses with summons alone? How do you do it?

[Infamous]

It isn't extra rules, it's clarifying 2 that are already there.

 

broadening the 2 is almost the same as extra ones, since you add to the already existing ones.

 

and no weaverdas, i haven't really read your post. I was just simply stating my view on the poll, and how black and white it is. either don't go, or be busy all the time with whatever the game has to offer. I'm surprised though nobody mentioned caltrops/mines yet to help aswell, if you want all or nothing include that too

[scowper]

For the most part I use tank rabbits to defend fighters, the tanks take the damage which takes the pressure off of them. For attack against bosses I use hawks, it takes a few of them but their mirror is evil.

 

I have also summoned ACW when things get real bad, usually after I have lost a brick to a gate rush.

 

For fluffy's and below I just fight them.

 

----------------------------------------------

 

Ingame name: JRats

[Faxie]

I voted yes on both but let me clarify:

Just entering and sitting in fort the whole invance shouldn't be allowed. But if you help most the time and slack off at the end, I don't care.

 

 

On eq: Yes; but summoners/mages should be allowed to wear CoM and rangers should be allowed to wear ninja tunic and NV.

 

NB: I have seen JRats at work in 100-120 and he saved the day a lot with his summons. There is no question in my mind if he was helpfull.

[Amaara]

Minimum gear we are voting on:

40-60: Steel chainmail/augmented leather pants, titanium long sword

60-80 and up: Iron plate/cuisses/greaves (can substitute tit chainmail), CoL, Titanium Serpent Sword

 

As someone who recently capped out of 40-60 and is moving into the 60-80:

 

40-60 Thoughts:

 

The titanium long sword has a human nexus of 4. I don't think something with this high of a nexus should be a requirement for 40-60. Probably the minimum weapon should be a steel long sword with human 1 or steel two-edged sword with human 2. The titanium long sword costs approximately 5kgc while the steel long sword is 900gc from the NPC.

 

Not sure about the steel chainmail requirement. The 40-60's that I attended, most players wore the augmented leather torso (I certainly did). The negative 2 for cold protection of steel chainmail should also be considered.

 

The drop value in the 40-60's is very low and certainly wouldn't cover the cost of replacing the higher gear requirements mentioned here. The likelihood of dying and losing a death bag is very high for beginning players.

 

60-80 and up Thoughts:

 

Wouldn't it be better if it were CoL and/or Rdholam? While the Rdholam does break easily, the cost is a lot cheaper than a CoL. With the other gear requirements, a CoL may have too high of a price tag for someone just entering the 60's.

 

I will wear a CoL but feel there should be a choice for players of one or the other.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Amaara

[Gwaew]

First vote self-explanatory.

Second vote: no, because (for the same reasons stated a few times in this thread already) I feel there need to be a few alternatives for rangers/summoners as to the gear. "Minimum" can be interpreted in many ways: e.g. a NV is much more expensive than a RDHOLAM (which I assume is accetable as an alternative to CoL (but also need mentioning on the min-equipment-list!), but doesn't offer any armor.

 

So the "minimum" requirements should be structured somewhat like this:

 

40-60...

 

Fighters:

Rangers:

Summoners/Mages:

 

60-80...

 

Fighters:

Rangers:

Summoners/Mages:

 

=> now please don't start argugin "well how do you know someone goes as a Summoner(...) ?"

Well these equipment sub-lists should only serve as an alternative to the pure fighter gear mentioned in the initial post. So you can equip

* either Iron plate + Serp + ... and fight

* or you can equip bow (minimum type?), Camo cape and NV + min. ranger armor (and make sure to actually carry that bow in your hand :-P)

* or wear CoM instead of CoL.... and have some tank rabbit at your side / heal fighters etc. frequently.

 

 

I think you got the idea: be WELL EQUIPPED for whatever type of help you are planning to provide.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Gwaew

[GreyElf]

These rules are very helpful as guildelines only. In the end we need to be able to trust our team mates. I still think that a venue to form teams, pick leaders and/or delegate specific tasks will go a long way to avoiding misunderstandings.

 

channel 4060, 6080, etc. would be a good place to clarify what each person will bring and what role they will play in the invance.

 

a mod could then check that each team member has agreed to their role and has agreed to bring the stated armour, weapons, essies, etc.

Edited September 18, 2012 by GreyElf

[Cyrano]

I haven't voted yet, would it be possible to clarify;

 

In the first rule will there be some allowance for people stopping to recharge mana or wait for cooldowns to clear?

Will people be allowed to assist at the end in any way they choose eg range the monster even though they might not have AP or good bow, summon with low levels etc?

 

In the second rule does col mean col only or include Rdholam or com too?

Will mages, rangers & summoners have different requirements?

If mages, rangers & summoners have different requirements, what specifically will these be?

 

Sorry to be asking questions but I'm unclear on what exactly I would be voting for or against.

[Aislinn]

In the first rule will there be some allowance for people stopping to recharge mana or wait for cooldowns to clear?

Yes.

 

Will people be allowed to assist at the end in any way they choose eg range the monster even though they might not have AP or good bow, summon with low levels etc?

Yes.

 

In the second rule does col mean col only or include Rdholam or com too?

CoL is listed as being a minimum. In my opinion, a Rdholam is better than a CoL so of course that would be acceptable too.

 

Will mages, rangers & summoners have different requirements?

If mages, rangers & summoners have different requirements, what specifically will these be?

I think good mages and summoners definitely fall under the tweaking bit, see scowper's (Jrats) comments above about summoning, and nobody could say he wasn't one of the most helpful people on the team. Other thoughts and experiences welcome to be posted here. Rangers pretty much the same with the difference being the already elven bow, pk arrows, etc from the existing rules.

 

Voting for question 2 is more of a question of do you think there should be minimums in general terms. I never paid attention to what JRats wore, I was a bit too busy to notice, but I absolutely believe you all have a valid point and we'll be discussing some edits to that list when radu wakes up.