Legit BJer

[Caliphear]

Yeah but Cali you just said that you do "not agree" that he owes the team for their resources used and the time that was wasted:

 

As for the gc to enter, the wait times, not finishing the instance etc i have to not agreee with.

...but i'd have to agree with others who've posted and say that he really does owe them for that.

It's not like the instance was being hard for him or that he made a genuine mistake.

 

I'm not saying it's feasible to calculate time/items lost and try to make him repay it, but yeah, people are going to feel they haven't been repaid in full for what they've lost and probably hold some (imo warranted) resentment due to that.

 

If he indeed did do it on purpose then i can understand. I even agree i wouldnt trust him. I wasn't in the instance and tbh didnt feel like reading all of the chat logs. Im just going by saxums summary. If i die in an instance i dont expect to get paid back because of mistakes. Doing things on purpose to get ppl killed isnt ok at all. And maybe i am just too forgiving to not be expected to be paid back all that if i was in their shoes if it wasnt a mistake.

 

I am a neutral party in this but want the straight facts so we know since we did let him in our guild. I am not trashing anyone for their opinions on whats owed otherwise. It's just my opinion. So dont anyone take it the wrong way.

 

I just have yet to see the list of items that wasnt returned. And before anyone questions it.. no i do not believe that screenshot was legitimate. It was obviously messed with.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Caliphear

[forever]

Yeah but Cali you just said that you do "not agree" that he owes the team for their resources used and the time that was wasted:

 

As for the gc to enter, the wait times, not finishing the instance etc i have to not agreee with.

...but i'd have to agree with others who've posted and say that he really does owe them for that.

It's not like the instance was being hard for him or that he made a genuine mistake.

 

I'm not saying it's feasible to calculate time/items lost and try to make him repay it, but yeah, people are going to feel they haven't been repaid in full for what they've lost and probably hold some (imo warranted) resentment due to that.

 

Yeah well.. he's removed. I don't know what was taken, but saxum.. replying to the many pm's i've sent you to try and settle things.. would be nice..

Edited February 11, 2011 by forever

[korrode]

If he indeed did do it on purpose then i can understand.

And before anyone questions it.. no i do not believe that screenshot was legitimate. It was obviously messed with.

So there is no "if" about it.

[Vanyel]

When I read this thread I still have in memory the one related to Vallath.

 

Sadly, I have to say that there is only one word that came up to my mind: hypocrisy.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Vanyel

[Caliphear]

When I read this thread I still have in memory the one related to Vallath.

 

Sadly, I have to say that there is only one word that came up to my mind: hypocrisy.

 

Yes we kicked vallath prematurely and we admitted it. We have straightened things out with vallath.And that has nothing to do with this thread.

 

The difference here is :

 

1. Legit was NOT in *EL* when this happened

2. Saxum has not answered pm's of Inferno or legit (who cant reply for himself on the forums because he is banned) and will not answer here. All we want to know is WHAT was NOT returned.And apparently he cant answer that. I smell a scam in that itself.

 

The shots saxum posted clearly are at a storage but They are not regular screenshots and even so can easily be faked as well. Sorry but I am not buying it since he is evading the question.

 

Was legit wrong for what he did? YES. But he says he gave the stuff back. Saxum says he didnt give it all back. I dont see proof and i sure dont see saxum answering anyone on it. Both screenshots (if you can call saxums screenshots) dont prove anything other than ppl are trying to pull fast ones. Legit is not the only one if saxum cant answer simple questions. If i was bag jumped and was asked what wasnt returned.. i sure could list what was missing. As a matter of fact.. when ozmondius took my db he took my NMT, Tit shield, Mol .. left matter essense in the bag. Anything of importance.. you should be able to list.

 

So as of now no i dont believe saxum.

 

After reading all the chat logs it seems to me they werent prepared and were a lot more problems than just legit tanking. And nothing was thought of his tanking or said about it until after the bag jump. Then it was assumed it was on purpose. Just as it was assumed he was Overkill. They didnt say they were stopping the instance because of him "fake tanking" they did it because of the bag jump.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Caliphear

[Quesar]

The shots saxum posted clearly are at a storage but They are not regular screenshots and even so can easily be faked as well. Sorry but I am not buying it since he is evading the question.

The screenshots he posted were a bit confusing yes, but they do clearly show the items having been mostly returned. It isn't that part he's complaining about.

 

Was legit wrong for what he did? YES. But he says he gave the stuff back. Saxum says he didnt give it all back. I dont see proof and i sure dont see saxum answering anyone on it.

Not all. His fake tank cost me gc to pay to join instance and other stuff I lost. It also cost others since they could not continue w/o additional fighter and no tank and lack of trust in. They also lost time before they could go on another instance and items used to allow them go on instance. I would not trust him just because he returned some items nor anyone who said it was OK by just returning. This is a not a game based on trust however but more like Diplomacy where alliances are made until someone stabs you in the back.

He answered it right there already.

 

After reading all the chat logs it seems to me they werent prepared and were a lot more problems than just legit tanking. And nothing was thought of his tanking or said about it until after the bag jump. Then it was assumed it was on purpose. Just as it was assumed he was Overkill. They didnt say they were stopping the instance because of him "fake tanking" they did it because of the bag jump.

Everyone in an instance team should be able to tank themselves for at least a little while, so I don't hold Saxum's death as Legit's responsibility. Saxum should have been able to hold his own for at least a little while, or be quick enough to dis away. I do think Legit ruined the instance with his attempted scam though, and gave them all #ii time for nothing, and that IS his fault.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Quesar

[Wizzy]

The shots saxum posted clearly are at a storage but They are not regular screenshots and even so can easily be faked as well. Sorry but I am not buying it since he is evading the question.

The screenshots he posted were a bit confusing yes, but they do clearly show the items having been mostly returned. It isn't that part he's complaining about.

 

Was legit wrong for what he did? YES. But he says he gave the stuff back. Saxum says he didnt give it all back. I dont see proof and i sure dont see saxum answering anyone on it.

Not all. His fake tank cost me gc to pay to join instance and other stuff I lost. It also cost others since they could not continue w/o additional fighter and no tank and lack of trust in. They also lost time before they could go on another instance and items used to allow them go on instance. I would not trust him just because he returned some items nor anyone who said it was OK by just returning. This is a not a game based on trust however but more like Diplomacy where alliances are made until someone stabs you in the back.

He answered it right there already.

 

After reading all the chat logs it seems to me they werent prepared and were a lot more problems than just legit tanking. And nothing was thought of his tanking or said about it until after the bag jump. Then it was assumed it was on purpose. Just as it was assumed he was Overkill. They didnt say they were stopping the instance because of him "fake tanking" they did it because of the bag jump.

Everyone in an instance team should be able to tank themselves for at least a little while, so I don't hold Saxum's death as Legit's responsibility. Saxum should have been able to hold his own for at least a little while, or be quick enough to dis away. I do think Legit ruined the instance with his attempted scam though, and gave them all #ii time for nothing, and that IS his fault.

 

Maybe Legit is feeling scammed for people dieing during the instance, wasting his time and #ii ?

[Nova]

Then he probably shouldn't have tried to scam someone's stuff mid instance causing mistrust in a team mate?

[Caliphear]

The shots saxum posted clearly are at a storage but They are not regular screenshots and even so can easily be faked as well. Sorry but I am not buying it since he is evading the question.

The screenshots he posted were a bit confusing yes, but they do clearly show the items having been mostly returned. It isn't that part he's complaining about.

 

Was legit wrong for what he did? YES. But he says he gave the stuff back. Saxum says he didnt give it all back. I dont see proof and i sure dont see saxum answering anyone on it.

Not all. His fake tank cost me gc to pay to join instance and other stuff I lost. It also cost others since they could not continue w/o additional fighter and no tank and lack of trust in. They also lost time before they could go on another instance and items used to allow them go on instance. I would not trust him just because he returned some items nor anyone who said it was OK by just returning. This is a not a game based on trust however but more like Diplomacy where alliances are made until someone stabs you in the back.

He answered it right there already.

 

After reading all the chat logs it seems to me they werent prepared and were a lot more problems than just legit tanking. And nothing was thought of his tanking or said about it until after the bag jump. Then it was assumed it was on purpose. Just as it was assumed he was Overkill. They didnt say they were stopping the instance because of him "fake tanking" they did it because of the bag jump.

Everyone in an instance team should be able to tank themselves for at least a little while, so I don't hold Saxum's death as Legit's responsibility. Saxum should have been able to hold his own for at least a little while, or be quick enough to dis away. I do think Legit ruined the instance with his attempted scam though, and gave them all #ii time for nothing, and that IS his fault.

 

 

Yes i understand he and the rest of the team feel they wasted #II gc etc etc.. im talking about what did he bag jump that wasnt returned? were ALL of the bag jumped items returned?

 

its not nice to do to any member of instance and i dont think bag jumping a death bag is right AT ALL anywhere even though some have even jumped mine. During an instance your supposed to set aside any differences and not rip each other off period. Actualy Legit died in an instance lost his stuff and inferno grabbed it and returned it. Legit praised him and thanked him for a long time for it but thats what you do. Which really bothered both of us that he would later turn and do this to someone. But like i said it was my understanding that all the ITEMS were returned. If saxum cant answer that simple question then i have to believe i already have my answer.

[Quesar]

Yes i understand he and the rest of the team feel they wasted #II gc etc etc.. im talking about what did he bag jump that wasnt returned? were ALL of the bag jumped items returned?

 

its not nice to do to any member of instance and i dont think bag jumping a death bag is right AT ALL anywhere even though some have even jumped mine. During an instance your supposed to set aside any differences and not rip each other off period. Actualy Legit died in an instance lost his stuff and inferno grabbed it and returned it. Legit praised him and thanked him for a long time for it but thats what you do. Which really bothered both of us that he would later turn and do this to someone. But like i said it was my understanding that all the ITEMS were returned. If saxum cant answer that simple question then i have to believe i already have my answer.

He DID post that the items were returned. Just look at the screen shot and read what he posted. He is probably just sick of answering the same damn question over and over again since you aren't understanding the answer. I'm not trying to be mean about this, just trying to be 100% clear.

[TuDaeFadda]

Offence is the best defence, is it not, Cali...Unfortunately when you're defending an indefensible cause that adage waters down to nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

1. This thread was not made to rail at your guild, it was made to express my instance team's grievances against a player who bagjumped a co-member during the instance. Whatever themuntdregger, Inferno and you have between you, concerning guild matters, et cetra, has been brought in later; so keep these matters disjoint please.

 

 

2. Permit me, here, to assert that your understanding of instance tanking is lacking. A mob when being multicombated will calculate the value of a formula, which I call the tanking formula, every time a fresh opponent ENGAGES it, or if the existing TANK disengages. If oversimplified, this formula might look like this: -

 

f_tank=a*(arm_max)+b*(this.def+this+att)+c*(this.phy)+.... //insert components of combat rating here, note that a,b,c...are constants, with a>>b,c,...arm_max is your MAXIMUM armor rating, hence if #arm gives 31/33, it's more that 32/32. Also include astro.

 

Thereafter the mob attacks that member whose f_tank is LOWEST. THIS person becomes the tank. Go right up the logs, and notice that I pointed out LONG AGO that a person with higher A/D, attribs, AND armor rating than saxum (Legit: full dragons plus RDHoLaM plus gath med =36/36, SoP = 38/38, shield spell = 41/41) would never be tank while saxum wore steel and CoL and moon med.

 

LEGIT UNDERTOOK TO TAKE HIS PLATE OFF. And he didn't. He didn't on the first Yeti, not on the second, not on the 20th. In the meantime, Devnul tanked 3 Yeti, Charolles 1-2, I tanked 6-7 and saxum 2-3. When Saxum died the second time and dropped his bag, I remember Legit disengaging, sitting down on the bag while I somehow managed to kill this Yeti solo.

 

Those are not the actions of a tank. They are the actions of a pre-planned bag jumper. I'll go by Korrode's signature here. What you don't know about, you must not declare opinions on.

 

 

3. As has been pointed out, your argument that shit happens in instances, people cancel them, people can't finish them, people die and poof bricks et cetra is invalid here, because in none of the instances you reference is there a determined saboteur INSIDE the group waiting to BJ you, then play innocent. It was because of Legit that I cancelled the instance, because I had no intention of having my team lose more money through rostogols. YES, I do believe that Legit owes me, my team and Saxum compensation for for his douchebaggery. I am also lucid enough to understand that such compensation is not forthcoming, and miffed enough to refuse such compensation (only personally speaking) if it is offered.

 

 

4. Legit has been evicted from your guild as of now, if I remeber correctly seeing him last night at VoTD sto, and if I read pyro's post correctly. Your continued inane defense of someone YOUR guild deemed unworthy of its moral standards reflects poorly on your guild's governing ethics, so you might want to cease and desist.

 

 

 

Have a good day, now (read: please take the irrelevant stuff elsewhere, I request you)

[forever]

Tudae, pm me ingame. There is something i must discuss with you.

[Caliphear]

Offence is the best defence, is it not, Cali...Unfortunately when you're defending an indefensible cause that adage waters down to nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

1. This thread was not made to rail at your guild, it was made to express my instance team's grievances against a player who bagjumped a co-member during the instance. Whatever themuntdregger, Inferno and you have between you, concerning guild matters, et cetra, has been brought in later; so keep these matters disjoint please.

 

 

2. Permit me, here, to assert that your understanding of instance tanking is lacking. A mob when being multicombated will calculate the value of a formula, which I call the tanking formula, every time a fresh opponent ENGAGES it, or if the existing TANK disengages. If oversimplified, this formula might look like this: -

 

f_tank=a*(arm_max)+b*(this.def+this+att)+c*(this.phy)+.... //insert components of combat rating here, note that a,b,c...are constants, with a>>b,c,...arm_max is your MAXIMUM armor rating, hence if #arm gives 31/33, it's more that 32/32. Also include astro.

 

Thereafter the mob attacks that member whose f_tank is LOWEST. THIS person becomes the tank. Go right up the logs, and notice that I pointed out LONG AGO that a person with higher A/D, attribs, AND armor rating than saxum (Legit: full dragons plus RDHoLaM plus gath med =36/36, SoP = 38/38, shield spell = 41/41) would never be tank while saxum wore steel and CoL and moon med.

 

LEGIT UNDERTOOK TO TAKE HIS PLATE OFF. And he didn't. He didn't on the first Yeti, not on the second, not on the 20th. In the meantime, Devnul tanked 3 Yeti, Charolles 1-2, I tanked 6-7 and saxum 2-3. When Saxum died the second time and dropped his bag, I remember Legit disengaging, sitting down on the bag while I somehow managed to kill this Yeti solo.

 

Those are not the actions of a tank. They are the actions of a pre-planned bag jumper. I'll go by Korrode's signature here. What you don't know about, you must not declare opinions on.

 

 

3. As has been pointed out, your argument that shit happens in instances, people cancel them, people can't finish them, people die and poof bricks et cetra is invalid here, because in none of the instances you reference is there a determined saboteur INSIDE the group waiting to BJ you, then play innocent. It was because of Legit that I cancelled the instance, because I had no intention of having my team lose more money through rostogols. YES, I do believe that Legit owes me, my team and Saxum compensation for for his douchebaggery. I am also lucid enough to understand that such compensation is not forthcoming, and miffed enough to refuse such compensation (only personally speaking) if it is offered.

 

 

4. Legit has been evicted from your guild as of now, if I remeber correctly seeing him last night at VoTD sto, and if I read pyro's post correctly. Your continued inane defense of someone YOUR guild deemed unworthy of its moral standards reflects poorly on your guild's governing ethics, so you might want to cease and desist.

 

 

 

Have a good day, now (read: please take the irrelevant stuff elsewhere, I request you)

 

I do know how a tank works, i do know how ppl are targeted in an instance and i do know about the tank taking the armor off etc.. i was trying to muddle through the 2 different stories i was hearing and i was getting no clarification. I am not taking any of this as an attack on my guild whatsoever. instead trying to make a judgement call on his fate permanently with our guild. Depending on the facts of this situation. I defend who i think is right which is why i was asking the questions and to not jump on the band wagon without knowing facts.

 

With that said ty tudae for finaly clarifying

Edited February 12, 2011 by Caliphear

[saxum]

As I told Legit in PMs which I will not repost per rules he needs to read the thread and publicly comment and not in one PM did he say he was not able to do so. I have answered his PMs not repeated and saying otherwise implies you are an alt able to read all of the PMs.

 

Regarding Calphear's defense of intentional deceit then I will assume ALL members of the guild have same endorsement of tactics unless members post otherwise. I have not evaded anything like Caliphear's expert evasion of truth.

 

I only went on instance because there was supposed to be a semi-tank (read original post) not a full stank and never fought Yetis before. I should have left when I realized he was not tanking but already spent to get scales to enter and buy new armor since some of my armor was not suitable.

[Caliphear]

As I told Legit in PMs which I will not repost per rules he needs to read the thread and publicly comment and not in one PM did he say he was not able to do so. I have answered his PMs not repeated and saying otherwise implies you are an alt able to read all of the PMs.

 

Regarding Calphear's defense of intentional deceit then I will assume ALL members of the guild have same endorsement of tactics unless members post otherwise. I have not evaded anything like Caliphear's expert evasion of truth.

 

I only went on instance because there was supposed to be a semi-tank (read original post) not a full stank and never fought Yetis before. I should have left when I realized he was not tanking but already spent to get scales to enter and buy new armor since some of my armor was not suitable.

 

I am not posting on this thread to DEFEND anyone. And as Inferno and I have both stated, he was not in our guild when this happened and was only accepted because it was our understanding he returned everything that was bag jumped and he did apologize for this stupidity on channel 6.

 

We have also stated we do not codone what was done either way. The reason for my posts were to find out the FACTS so we could decide wether to let him BACK into the guild because he has been removed due to all the pm's we receive constantly. And Inferno had tried contacting you in which you ignore him. So ofc i had to resort to trying to get answers publicly.

 

We did not research the facts long enough with the Vallath incident and we were wrong. We look into Legit and we are still wrong. So if our guild is so horrible for seeking the facts before we let someone in or boot someone from our guild, then so be it.

 

All of this could have been avoided if you would have answered the GM's (Inferno) pm's in the first place. Situations can not be corrected when you ignore those trying to make them right. As for you wanting Legit to post here.. again he is BANNED from posting on forums so he CANT.

 

Stating I am an alt is ridiculous and that didnt even make sense. Everyone in this game knows me. And caliphear is my main. Even tudae knows me. And they all know i do not scam or bag jump. I think that comment was grasping at straws my friend.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Caliphear

[hobobob38]

I am not posting on this thread to DEFEND anyone. And as Inferno and I have both stated, he was not in our guild when this happened and was only accepted because it was our understanding he returned everything and he did apologize for this stupidity on channel 6.

 

We have also stated we do not codone what was done either way. The reason for my posts were to find out the FACTS so we could decide wether to let him BACK into the guild because he has been removed due to all the pm's we receive constantly. And Inferno had tried contacting you in which you ignore him. So ofc i had to resort to trying to get answers publicly.

 

I'm sorry, but doesn't letting him in your guild = condoning it? regardless of if he returned the stuff or not it seems silly to have let him join your guild.

[forever]

I am to strict, and I'm a bastard.

I show some leniency and over look a past because some one appologizes and returns stuffs, and I'm a bastard.

 

Hobo, gtfo.

[themuntdregger]

I am to strict, and I'm a bastard.

I show some leniency and over look a past because some one appologizes and returns stuffs, and I'm a bastard.

 

Hobo, gtfo.

 

Hardly a bastard. Just inconsistent and weak really.