skipping school

[makuyi]

I am a teacher and , of course, my students do everything they can to lead me in the wrong direction. Last week the new school year started and already one of my new students tried to be smarter than me (which they are 80% of the time).

Sometimes I get unexpected help.

 

One of my students phoned in sick. The same day he discovered that he was required to hand me a note , written by his parents to confirm his illness. Too young or too innocent to figure out a good excuse, he posted his dilemma on a forum on the internet and asked for help. (for Dutch readers, this is what he posted. http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1521640 )

 

The moderator of that forum helped.

He mailed the administrator of my school telling him the name of the student and showing him the post. The administrator mailed me cause I am the kid's mentor. When I talked to the kid, I pretended to be astonished by his behaviour, but I had to laugh. The kid is now waiting for his punishment. I told him I had to think about it.

 

My students are 99% boys between 16-20 at a school for vacational training. They are studying ICT . I love my job.

[korrode]

An online forum moderator took it upon herself/himself to interfere with a forum member's educational life by revealing their true identity to that member's school, and dobbing them in for faking sick?

 

Disgraceful.

[pking]

lol

[Immortelle]

As an ex teacher i like to say woow to the forum administrator. The guy in the end did the right thing and did help the student by going the right way !!!!

 

I never liked when my students tried to lie to me and most of the time i got them, as a teacher you need to teach them to do the right thing Korrode and not lie !!!

Why you say it was a disgrace i dont get it. Are you a parent or a teacher yet? If you are you would understand this [ perhaps!!! ] , if not...why dont you stop posting such rubbish?

[Aislinn]

My students are 99% boys between 16-20 at a school for vacational training. They are studying ICT . I love my job.

*wonders if this is the new politically correct way to say summer school...*

 

 

Seriously though, as a parent and a forum admin and being on both sides of the coin:

I have had posts here from kids looking for ways to get around schools blocking port 2000, or trying to find a way to play while in class because they're bored, etc etc etc.

I won't help them if I know why they are doing it. I would tell them why, and would advise them it's not a good idea and why. However, I won't stop others from posting and I certainly would not report them to their school or parents even if I had the means to do so.

Interesting moral dilemma really.

[korrode]

Why you say it was a disgrace i dont get it.

You're honestly telling me you can't grasp the concept that private userdata that is only accessible to administrators of an online service should not be disclosed to 3rd parties?

 

Lets say you work somewhere that doesn't approve of surfing MMORPG forums, but sometimes you have a quick glance at these EL forums at work.

Lets say Aislinn knows where you work.

If Aislinn, off her own bat, sent logs of your forum usage activity through to your boss would you find it acceptable?

 

 

Also, could someone please give me an accurate translation of the 2nd last paragraph on this page?

http://forum.fok.nl/rde/faq/policy

 

 

Additional:

Just saw Aislinn's edit.

Good to hear Aisy

[Immortelle]

Interesting moral dilemma really.

 

 

Yes it is, i believe is the student fault and as well parents. Perhaps the forum mod shouldnt have had the nformation pass but still in the end he did something to get the kid on the right path. Just as you try to do it as a forum mod, even by not getting in touch with the school ,work etc as you said u still try to tell them isnt right to play while at school etc.

 

He is a kid after all and he needs to learn when you post data on a public forum that may be found by anyone, doesnt matter who, and can be send to someone else etc. So i dont think the forum mod shouldnt be the one with the fault here, perhaps a bit but not all of it.

 

As for my boss, i dont play at work ever.

 

Edit: The student post it on a school forum so anyone could spotted the topic anyways and find out who the student was.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Immortelle

[Entris]

lol shit happens

[Khalai]

I don't think that nowadays people care about what is right rather than what is legal. They are (unfortunately) two different things and whatever righteous motivation of the forum admin was, he has no right of disclosing personal info unless permitted by user himself...

[Aislinn]

In the original post here, it is not clear how much information the student posted willingly, and how much was private only known to the admin.

How many forums require you to disclose the name of your school when you register?

If he posted the information himself, it just as easily could have been a random poster who turned him in and then there would be no fuss. (I read over the forum thread in question, it does look like he himself made the information public but we would need translations of the entire thread for that to be correctly determined.)

I do agree with the statement that it should be a good lesson in the perils of saying anything on the internet. Nothing is sacred, nothing is private.

[Nardo Lala]

For those who does not understand Dutch, here is a translation of the student's plee, I have not included his writing/spelling errors in the translation:

 

Hello,

 

I have this considerable shitty problem.

 

Now my school has started and on the first day we had an excursion, TOTALLY did not feel like it so I reported sick

 

Mother asked if I should not go to school, but I said yeah but I am free today (first day of school so she had no suspicion or something.)

 

Now I read that if I go back to school (that’s tomorrow) I need some proof from home that I have been really ill or something. With other words I am screwed.

 

Does some have an idea or something? My idea is just not to report in en just follow the lessons.

 

Help

 

 

 

----

 

 

from a section of the forum rules: ( translation by bable fish )

 

Do not forget further think before your something posts. Everyone can read and your mail, photograph \ ' s, icons, etc use elsewhere then you for eyes had. Also are possible bulletins and everything your in this (photograph \ ' s, usericons, signatures etc. for example) gequote are used or in other bulletins. Thus the Internet works. We are not for that responsible and our with that generally also further will interfere and with posting on FOK! you explain also that you have no objection if your photograph \ ' s, drawings, blades and texts in other topics emerge. With placing bulletins you grant FOK! an indefinite and unconditional user charge on everything what you place. Disclaimers in your texts or signatures have no influence on these policy and these policy remain in spite of explicit reports of the user unabridged and undiminished effective. You want exclusive right on your bulletins, photograph \ ' s, blades or other work, place them then not on FOK!

 

 

It certainly made me laugh

[hussam]

People should really stop playing police. Skipping school is bad but it's not the forum administrator's business to contact the school.

Best he should do is not reply in the thread and PM the student to tell him not to ask such questions in the forums again and maybe advise him to tell his parents so they can help solve the problem.

[Nardo Lala]

I agree, and the best advise ever for him, this is not however about who is wrong and who should be doing what...for whatever morally/ethically or legally reason, this is funny section is it not?

 

This is about a guys who lies twice, to his school teacher, to his parents, realizes he can not get away with it and tries to cover it up by more lies, phails epically in doing so, due to whatever circumstances …Homer Simpson would be proud.

[Myrea]

Also, could someone please give me an accurate translation of the 2nd last paragraph on this page?

http://forum.fok.nl/rde/faq/policy

 

Privacy statement

FOK! zal geen mailadressen, telefoonnummers of andere niet door jezelf publiekelijk gemaakte informatie doorgeven aan derden, tenzij dit door een rechter wordt geëist. Wel kunnen we besluiten je provider op de hoogte te stellen als je je grof misdraagt. Lees ook de disclaimer met betrekking tot statistieken en advertising.

 

Privacy Statement

FOK! will not give out mail addresses, phone numbers or other information you didn't make public, to third parties; unless demanded by a judge. We CAN decide to notify your provider if you misbehave. Read the disclaimer about statistics and advertising.

[Maxine]

It wasn't a moderator, the guy that sent the e-mail posted it in the same thread and showed where he got the info (youtube account and from there a hyves account gives this kids personal info). The boy should learn to better protect his information on the internet.

[Pyewacket]

Speaking personally, I am disheartened but not surprised that anyone would wish to place the "rights of the user" before the moral decision to do the right thing.

 

I'd have done exactly what the forum mod did, without reserve or indecision. Too long now have legal technicalities stood in the way of moral responsibility, and such woolly headed thinking is, to me, the great shame of the world.

 

Yes I already know the counter arguement to come here, legal rights have to be upheld yada yada yada, but how often have such legal rights been used to the advantage of the guilty, and the persecution of the innocent?

 

Hang em all, I say.

[Aislinn]

Ehm is the "reading optional" disease spreading?

@Pyewacket:

1. It wasn't a moderator. (read post above yours)

2. Even if it was, the moderators and admins are bound by rules of the "jobs" they agreed to. (see the forum Privacy Statement 2 posts above yours)

3. I think the whole issue is being discussed about doing the right thing? There ARE ways to do the right thing without violating privacy rights. (See rest of thread above your post). As Korrode pointed out, would you want YOUR privacy violated in the same manner? That is a very slippery slope you are on.

[Pyewacket]

The post now above, by maxine, wasnt on when i hit "add reply" sorry Aisy, didnt realise it wasn't a mod.

 

I still stand by my conviction that putting legal responsibilities before moral obligations is or at least CAN be the wrong thing, and I don't wish to dig out proofs on defending my beliefs, in the form of evidence, but if I had the inclination I am sure there would be no shortage of material.

 

But despite that, I respect that rules have to be considered when making those moral decisions. Isn't that why we have a "spirit of the rules" clause? After all, weren't those laws and rules and regulations "out there" all made with the intention of maintaining order in order to preserve the moral good?

 

Basically I see it as a two headed coin, one side has the option to "allow 10 innocent people to be hanged, so that no guilty person goes free", on the other is our current "Allow 10 guilty people to go free, so that no innocent is hanged unjustly".

Judge for yourself what effect either society model achieves longterm, each has its good points and bad points, I am just pointing out the bad ones on our own model.

 

The "hang em all" was just me being a git.

[Aislinn]

I still stand by my conviction that putting legal responsibilities before moral obligations is or at least CAN be the wrong thing, and I don't wish to dig out proofs on defending my beliefs, in the form of evidence, but if I had the inclination I am sure there would be no shortage of material

Who gets to decide what is morally wrong or right?

[korrode]

It wasn't a moderator, the guy that sent the e-mail posted it in the same thread and showed where he got the info (youtube account and from there a hyves account gives this kids personal info). The boy should learn to better protect his information on the internet.

That makes all the difference.

 

Now it's lulz

 

 

And thanks for the translation Myrea

Edited September 6, 2010 by Korrode

[Pyewacket]

-snip-

Who gets to decide what is morally wrong or right?

Those who wish to defend what is morally right.

 

Hang on, would you question my beliefs if this was a religious opinion instead? I am not stating that we should scrap the whole system and change it for the other social model here, but I am convinced that our models bad sides need to be addressed, since it's evident that all too often the victims of crime don't get the break they deserve, and the guilty parties walk free. I wholly admit the opposite side of the coin would produce far worse effects to society than this, so assume that is why it wasn't the one that we currently have today (this being the lesser of two evils). It's an empathy to and for the victims that sustain my belief that our moral obligations should not be second place to legal obligations, and since it is a belief, please accept it as such, with no intent to influence others into following suit, but to enable them to understand why I believe it.

 

Feel free to believe that legal obligations outweigh the importance of moral ones, at your discretion.

 

edit: spelling.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Pyewacket

[Aislinn]

Huh?

My point was...

How is it determined what is morally right or wrong? Taking this issue only, why is it "morally right" to go tattle about somebody else's business with information only you have in a position of authority and trust and already have sworn to not do exactly that?

 

And that addressed, how would YOU feel if the situation was reversed and I reported your information to your boss or teacher or similar? I am sure, you being human and all, that you must have at least ONE naughty skeleton in your life's closet.

 

Please note this situation is not involving certain life or death issues either so that sort of rationale and justification (you may have a case HERE) does not apply. Nor is it even about criminals and victims. There is no criminal here or victim. It's a kid who skipped school and foolishly posted on a public forum. (Granted the moderator|admin issue is a moot point other than this continued debate of the morality of any given moderator|admin breaking that confidentiality).

[Pyewacket]

I understand your point completely, and personal information should be protected, the rights of the individual in most cases is paramount where that information and its preservation are concerned. BUT speaking as a parent I cannot condone putting the legal obligations of privacy clauses before the moral obligation towards the educational welfare of a child, even someone elses child.

 

SO I guess, when you ask "who gets to decide" I guess it comes down to people like you, aisy, who have the unfortunate position of being stuck in that very dilemma, with all the information at your disposal, the moral weight of having to decide if a case is important enough to break the terms of your undertaking to uphold the legal requirements of your position, and the fettering of your actions where a decision must be made.

 

It's not a job I should ever be put in charge of, because without a doubt, my moral duty towards the child would always come before my duty in the role of data preserver. I'd dob them in to the school without a moments hesitation, otherwise I'd be condoning absenteeism and using the legal privacy policies as an "it isnt my problem" excuse to ignore my responsibilities to the moral good. People who have not got the leash of privacy laws to hold them back from doing the same thing have no excuse at all, so kudos to the person who DID do the informing since it wasnt a mod/admin after all.

 

I do not envy you your role Aislinn, even less so now this particular subject has arisen since it's entirely probable you will one day be placed into a similar situation of moral and ethical dilemma. However, I am sure you will discharge your duty with your usual tact and discretion.

[korrode]

Your version of "morals" doesn't match my version.

[Aislinn]

I disagree that the moral dilemma presented here is as simple as choosing between "data preserver" and "child protector".

 

Speaking as a parent, if my children skipped school, their heads would roll. Make NO mistake, I don't condone that in any form. If somebody decided to inform me about it, sure I'd be glad to have the heads up, of course. But I certainly would not consider everyone else lacking in morals if they did not, nor would I expect anyone to do that. It is NOT everyone's moral responsibility to snitch on others (unless as I commented, it is a life and death situation which has different ramifications).

 

Tact? Not much

Discretion? Absolutely yes.