Magic Immune

[Tempest]

and all you ever hear from pkers is how shit and dead pk is, which is fucking ridiculous when they instantly shoot down any pk related suggestion, especially when they say it will wreck pk. how do yous even know something like this would ruin pk when yous arent even open to testing it? IMO its things like not being bothered to try or assuming all pk related suggestions will destroy pk (even though all you hear is its destroyed as it is) that will never make pk better. if you have a suggestion lets hear it.

 

PK ain't even close to dead atm. there are like 20-30~ people in nc pretty much every evening (european time), even if it's not as much as before it's not completly dead. then there are MANY guys pking on ndds, probably cause it's cheaper for them and cause they know they have the chance to get them randomly or for cleared invasions from radu. how would we know this would ruin PK when we didn't even test it? easy to know. imagine the spell gets changed. doesn't matter if it gets shortened or just made lvl based, to remove such a huge PK tactic spell would result in high lvls<low lvls. pk would get harder and less people get attracted to it.

 

if you read the fucking posts youd see i said i used to go pking regularly before i made this char, but it was boring waiting around for 1 person a day so i decided to leave too, buts thats all off topic. you see someones name youve only seen from DPA and you think - crap suggestion, they dont know crap about real pk. - be open to suggestions and dont just flame them for the sake of flaming them

you didn't go pk regulary, i was pking hell of a lot earlier, and the time where only 1 person was in kf a day didn't really last long. i don't judge people by their tag/guild/stats or whatever. A player with 30 a/d who has lots of experience with the game can have a good suggestion too no doubt. but if i know that this suggestion will just fuck up PK in its whole, i post what i think.

[Wizzy]

EDIT: it would be nice if a mod would be kind enough to delete these posts

Actually it would be better if you stop insulting and cursing at everyone who disagrees with you. If you post an idea, you have to expect people for it and against it.

 

@Wizzy if you come back to this thread: learn to use quotes please, your posts are too hard to figure out.

 

@Aislinn I really wish someone would show me how to use quotes. I do try, but the quote and repley option is all I can manage. Perhaps you can pm me in game for a lesson? It would be appreciated.

 

@Michic0_oL I have built many charaters over the years. I may have a better understanding then you may think. A few char 100+ a/d I have given to friends, some I have sold. a few I just killedme. No I am not telling you how to build a charater, I do think by now even you have figured that out. I can build a char faster and better then I can use quotes that is for sure.....

[Michic0_oL]

EDIT: it would be nice if a mod would be kind enough to delete these posts

Actually it would be better if you stop insulting and cursing at everyone who disagrees with you. If you post an idea, you have to expect people for it and against it.

 

@Wizzy if you come back to this thread: learn to use quotes please, your posts are too hard to figure out.

 

@Aislinn I really wish someone would show me how to use quotes. I do try, but the quote and repley option is all I can manage. Perhaps you can pm me in game for a lesson? It would be appreciated.

 

@Michic0_oL I have built many charaters over the years. I may have a better understanding then you may think. A few char 100+ a/d I have given to friends, some I have sold. a few I just killedme. No I am not telling you how to build a charater, I do think by now even you have figured that out. I can build a char faster and better then I can use quotes that is for sure.....

 

lol so you might now then that now a fighter got high reasoning so therefore high spell power -_-' - i know some fighters with 48/48 r/w and more than u think, with also 48 coord and one guy ingame, luciferx got enough pp for almost maxing out all. even if he didn't have 48 r/w his magic lvl would compensate it

[TirunCollimdus]

Haven't had a chance to read every post but if you put a magic breach spell in then what about giving it a percentage chance to work based solely on rationality? 1 or 2 percent per point of rationality depending on how effective you want it to be. Whether anyone likes it or not EL combat is based on pick points. Highest levels of a/d at 4 for every attribute will get pawned all of the time every day. Give people a choice to build mages by making stuff available at very high rationality and ethereal totals. PKers do not have high rationality. Even if they get a little reasoning and a little will it isn't going to be anything above 10 total for rationality and there is a lot of room above that under the cap to make a difference with magic.

 

Tirun

 

Yes making pick points do more means money players get more powerful. If they support the game then let them get more powerful. You can take out the pick point buying to stop it or just get over it. Using nexus instead of attributes works the same way. It is all about the pick points no matter what you do. People will buy them no matter what you do unless Entropy takes out the NPC. This game is about pick points plain and simple. Find players that you can afford to compete with and let the money people fight it out at the top. No other choice.

Edited June 1, 2008 by TirunCollimdus

[Wizzy]

EDIT: it would be nice if a mod would be kind enough to delete these posts

Actually it would be better if you stop insulting and cursing at everyone who disagrees with you. If you post an idea, you have to expect people for it and against it.

 

@Wizzy if you come back to this thread: learn to use quotes please, your posts are too hard to figure out.

 

@Aislinn I really wish someone would show me how to use quotes. I do try, but the quote and repley option is all I can manage. Perhaps you can pm me in game for a lesson? It would be appreciated.

 

@Michic0_oL I have built many charaters over the years. I may have a better understanding then you may think. A few char 100+ a/d I have given to friends, some I have sold. a few I just killedme. No I am not telling you how to build a charater, I do think by now even you have figured that out. I can build a char faster and better then I can use quotes that is for sure.....

 

lol so you might now then that now a fighter got high reasoning so therefore high spell power -_-' - i know some fighters with 48/48 r/w and more than u think, with also 48 coord and one guy ingame, luciferx got enough pp for almost maxing out all. even if he didn't have 48 r/w his magic lvl would compensate it

kk I think I got this quote right ..thanks Aislinn for the in game tips

 

Yes luciferx was an exception and maybe he could max every attribute when the new "mines blow me up everywhere perk" comes in to play. Yes, most fighters will have high reasoning..however most fighters also have high p/c/emu..... Is it not nice with the attribute cap that we can all play a bit with different builds for different stragies to pawnzor each other?

[conavar]

Well from the tone of comments and conversations on chan 6 , some kind of " Immunity breaker" is on the cards

 

If it is then I would suggest :

 

A ) Non-Multi maps mean non-multi: Offensive Spells cannot be cast at anyone engaged in combat by an outside 3rd party ( if you cant already then fine).

Its bad enough atm with 4-6 people playing pass the diss, it will be even worse on a non-multi map being surrounded by 5 people and 1 casting "break immunity" and 4 others harming/draining.

 

B ) Remove mana drain/ cooldown from Summon stones: Even now some fights turn into zoo fest's it will be even worse IMO if players know there opponent hasnt got MI

 

( normal summons should be left the same )

Edited June 1, 2008 by conavar

[Jaclaw]

[radu @ 6]: yes, there will be a ward that will remove MI]

 

end of topic ?

[korrode]

PKers do not have high rationality. Even if they get a little reasoning and a little will it isn't going to be anything above 10 total for rationality and there is a lot of room above that under the cap to make a difference with magic.

lol, TC, many PK'ers have a lot more than 10 rat... and i dont just mean top 20 types either.

[conavar]

PKers do not have high rationality. Even if they get a little reasoning and a little will it isn't going to be anything above 10 total for rationality and there is a lot of room above that under the cap to make a difference with magic.

lol, TC, many PK'ers have a lot more than 10 rat... and i dont just mean top 20 types either.

 

True I have 15 rat atm and Im nowhere near finished with my char build ( OA 108, 5 spare pp's atm, and not negged out, as in Anti etc)

[Ambrosius]

Seriously now, every person who makes such a stupid suggestion like this i have NEVER seen in PK before except on NDD's.

and honestly.. i'm not joking.. i think people should get a ban for that shit. it's not like i come here and post a suggestion about Dung exploding in crafters hand either after i failed my first ring.

 

Lmao

 

Amen to that ^^

Well said.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Ambrosius

[TirunCollimdus]

Okay sue me for being 5 rationality points off. ) What I see though is that everyone is saying 30 nexus is enough to keep fighters from being able to use it. Even if most PKers had 24 rationality then that leaves you 24 more rationality above them. To get to 48 rationality it takes 48 more pick points. How is that going to be easier for fighters to do than 30 nexus?

 

The higher the rationality the greater the return instead of a level gain to spell power and you make it take more pick points than everyone else is suggesting so far. This would also avoid completely screwing over the PKers who would still need to cast spells too. You don't need to add a new nexus just change the power level progression to favor the higher rationality. My point was still valid. Yes there are PKers who have 48/48 w/r already but they did have to sacrifice other attributes to get it.

 

Whether you change magic, add a new nexus or not people with money can buy pick points and get a massive advantage by maxing out all attributes. Making mages require maxed attributes to be powerful is exactly the way it is for fighters. Max attributes is what makes you the most powerful. That is why the cap was introduced in the first place so that there would actually be a need for some kind of strategy.

 

The new ward for breaking through MI is guess what? A cheaper investment than my suggestion of making it based on rationality. You buy the ward and use it but how many wards are you going to have to buy to match the 48 pick points to go from 24 rationality to 48? Great money sink for Entropy but makes it even easier for money players to use their money to get an advantage.

 

If everyone trying to kill this idea had actually read the thread and realized Entropy wanted to do something about MI instead of just blasting LeoI then perhaps my type of suggestion would have won out. Things IMO would have been better for it. Good luck to the PKers when the wards come in. The wards are going to be cheap enough for people to buy and use them so there is no chance the cost will compare to getting that extra 24 points in rationality.

 

I hope this post will get the PKers to convince Entropy to change his mind. Considering how many more bricks it will make for him though I am going to wish them luck on that one too.

 

Tirun

[Tempest]

i wanna know 1 thing since ent wants to change MI spell now.

will EL remain classless, or will there be Mage classes etc be implemented?

[Wizzy]

i wanna know 1 thing since ent wants to change MI spell now.

will EL remain classless, or will there be Mage classes etc be implemented?

Eternal lands will be classless as been stated many times before.

 

A summoner would have a different build then a mage,

A ranger also would have a different build right?

 

It is not about classes, it is building your charater to the style you want to play.

[conavar]

I hope this post will get the PKers to convince Entropy to change his mind. Considering how many more bricks it will make for him though I am going to wish them luck on that one too.

 

Tirun

 

But if it knackers PK then no bricks cus players wont PK

 

 

i wanna know 1 thing since ent wants to change MI spell now.

will EL remain classless, or will there be Mage classes etc be implemented?

Eternal lands will be classless as been stated many times before.

 

A summoner would have a different build then a mage,

A ranger also would have a different build right?

 

It is not about classes, it is building your charater to the style you want to play.

 

Yes but how long before " omg I cant range in pk it suxorz change the armour,dmg etc etc etc etc" bs ?.

 

Build the character for your own style of play by all means, but when you do, asking for the game to be changed to suit your style, smacks a tad selfish to me ( not aimed at you btw Wizzy)

[Tempest]

well, at least this time.. once this gets implemented go check this topic again.. and you will see PKers were/are right

[Aislinn]

Build the character for your own style of play by all means, but when you do, asking for the game to be changed to suit your style, smacks a tad selfish to me ( not aimed at you btw Wizzy)

Yeah, this is one of my pet peeves in suggestions too...

 

...in addition to not searching

[TirunCollimdus]

I hope this post will get the PKers to convince Entropy to change his mind. Considering how many more bricks it will make for him though I am going to wish them luck on that one too.

 

Tirun

 

But if it knackers PK then no bricks cus players wont PK

 

Good point there Conavar. I didn't think it out far enough. Right you are though. Hopefully one way or the other the wards will be replaced by character development and it will be a lot more expensive for anyone who wants to break through MI. The money for buying rationality would be a lot better for Entropy to start with so I think he should go with my idea. lol

 

Tirun

[Nahtepa]

ehem... im no genius so dont know how to do the instant quoting... so i do it old fashion kkty.

By Leoi- " ENTROPY has played longer than you so he knows more than you do and what will change so you are teh noobz0r for thinking it are sucky idea kk??"

 

No offense.... but "PLAYING" in my eyes means training, learning the ropes, gettin ur ass wooped from time to time, wooping ass, becoming skilled at whatever you do... whether it be pk, summoning, crafting, etc. Yes, Ent does log on. yes, he does run the "show". Yes, he gets mad evil rich from el shop. consider it "playing" if u wish i suppose.... but any actual character who has personally went into pk? trained up from 1st levels all the way to a pking status? if so, then id understand if he was pking and all a sudden figured "yea... somethin needs to be done about this...."... but you cant say "knows more than you do" when, obviously, we the pkers of EL have been doing it longer than him. And i speak for ALL the pkers, not just myself. We've all started shatty but we've figured how to be as good as we can be, some more than others. Again i will say, if he were to make a char, spend all the time that REAL pkers, unlike yourself Leoi, have done to train a char from scratch, learn the skills to pk... then id have no argument and he'd know "more" about pk than anyone i suppose....

 

Tis shitty idea.... but considering he's takin it seriously... im just hoping it is tested lots 1st and isnt horrible like everyone fears it will.... bc sounds like it has potential to kill PK. even tho SOME guilds are allied to 85% of el... pk will be fucked considering ppl will non stop be surrounded in arenas and just drained/harmed asap... and those ppl enemys will stop pking bc itll be pointless and then they'll sit around doin nothin

 

[Tempest]

ehem... im no genius so dont know how to do the instant quoting... so i do it old fashion kkty.

By Leoi- " ENTROPY has played longer than you so he knows more than you do and what will change so you are teh noobz0r for thinking it are sucky idea kk??"

 

No offense.... but "PLAYING" in my eyes means training, learning the ropes, gettin ur ass wooped from time to time, wooping ass, becoming skilled at whatever you do... whether it be pk, summoning, crafting, etc. Yes, Ent does log on. yes, he does run the "show". Yes, he gets mad evil rich from el shop. consider it "playing" if u wish i suppose.... but any actual character who has personally went into pk? trained up from 1st levels all the way to a pking status? if so, then id understand if he was pking and all a sudden figured "yea... somethin needs to be done about this...."... but you cant say "knows more than you do" when, obviously, we the pkers of EL have been doing it longer than him. And i speak for ALL the pkers, not just myself. We've all started shatty but we've figured how to be as good as we can be, some more than others. Again i will say, if he were to make a char, spend all the time that REAL pkers, unlike yourself Leoi, have done to train a char from scratch, learn the skills to pk... then id have no argument and he'd know "more" about pk than anyone i suppose....

 

Tis shitty idea.... but considering he's takin it seriously... im just hoping it is tested lots 1st and isnt horrible like everyone fears it will.... bc sounds like it has potential to kill PK. even tho SOME guilds are allied to 85% of el... pk will be fucked considering ppl will non stop be surrounded in arenas and just drained/harmed asap... and those ppl enemys will stop pking bc itll be pointless and then they'll sit around doin nothin

 

 

just to comment 1 sentence. with all respect.. if ent would actively play he would never even get the idea to implement something smilar to this. everyone with just ~half a year pk experience (no, not Dpa "pkers") agrees that this idea sucks. and now.. take a look at who agrees... spleenfeeder, cycloon... not that i wanna say they have no right to post.. but what i wanna say is.. they sit in mines 90% of their time

[LeoI]

ehem... im no genius so dont know how to do the instant quoting... so i do it old fashion kkty.

By Leoi- " ENTROPY has played longer than you so he knows more than you do and what will change so you are teh noobz0r for thinking it are sucky idea kk??"

 

No offense.... but "PLAYING" in my eyes means training, learning the ropes, gettin ur ass wooped from time to time, wooping ass, becoming skilled at whatever you do... whether it be pk, summoning, crafting, etc. Yes, Ent does log on. yes, he does run the "show". Yes, he gets mad evil rich from el shop. consider it "playing" if u wish i suppose.... but any actual character who has personally went into pk? trained up from 1st levels all the way to a pking status? if so, then id understand if he was pking and all a sudden figured "yea... somethin needs to be done about this...."... but you cant say "knows more than you do" when, obviously, we the pkers of EL have been doing it longer than him. And i speak for ALL the pkers, not just myself. We've all started shatty but we've figured how to be as good as we can be, some more than others. Again i will say, if he were to make a char, spend all the time that REAL pkers, unlike yourself Leoi, have done to train a char from scratch, learn the skills to pk... then id have no argument and he'd know "more" about pk than anyone i suppose....

 

i didnt mean it like that, i was just pissed at kadlubs comment

 

We play this game for more than 3 years kk? We know which will change things, we got experience, we dont talk shit like 1-2 months-old newbies. KK?

 

 

Tis shitty idea.... but considering he's takin it seriously... im just hoping it is tested lots 1st and isnt horrible like everyone fears it will.... bc sounds like it has potential to kill PK. even tho SOME guilds are allied to 85% of el... pk will be fucked considering ppl will non stop be surrounded in arenas and just drained/harmed asap... and those ppl enemys will stop pking bc itll be pointless and then they'll sit around doin nothin

 

 

i dont know which suggestion your talking about but if its the remove mag immune completely one and the ward thing i dont like that. mag spells themselves are too powerfull atm (damage, no cooldown, getting mutli'd by magic on a non multi map) to get rid of mag immune completely.

i dont think my original suggestion has been nearly the best looking through them all. personally i think the magic resistance based on rationality, or the mag immune time lasting based on rationality is much better. it was originally just about giving people the option and reason to build a mage char but its gone from that now.

 

sorry to go all the way back to this but:

PK ain't even close to dead atm. there are like 20-30~ people in nc pretty much every evening (european time), even if it's not as much as before it's not completly dead.

 

come on. 20-30 people out of how many thousand? not exactly active. and then how many people out of those few dozen are just there to watch? how many of them actually enter the arena to pk? how many of them go into the arena when one strong char comes along? not a lot

Edited June 1, 2008 by LeoI

[robotbob]

I tried to read this whole thread but I admit its blur of:

 

"kkkty pwnZ0r lmao ...who are ffs, rolfmao...too l33t to, roflmao.....n00b"

 

Ok, As I see it. The only problem is fighters are dependent on magic in order to heal.

So you cannot make a 'mage class' while fighters still need to be fighter-mages.

Solve the problem of fighter-mages and your MI issue goes away.

 

Now you have three options in a classless game, Fighter, Mage, Fighter\Mage.

[Wizzy]

I tried to read this whole thread but I admit its blur of:

 

"kkkty pwnZ0r lmao ...who are ffs, rolfmao...too l33t to, roflmao.....n00b"

 

Ok, As I see it. The only problem is fighters are dependent on magic in order to heal.

So you cannot make a 'mage class' while fighters still need to be fighter-mages.

Solve the problem of fighter-mages and your MI issue goes away.

 

Now you have three options in a classless game, Fighter, Mage, Fighter\Mage.

 

Robo has a good point, but I think you neglect the ranger class that could come into play in the near future. MI wont save you on a multi map from arrows, magic protection helps, warlock, bronze/dragon pieces yes. I see the ability to build a few different types of pk-able builds. Where not just one build is the "best" and new players are not forced into building the exact types of charaters to play. I think we should call this a "build" instead of a "class"?

 

perhaps instead of "remove magic immunity" there should be a spell called "penetrate Magic Immunity spell" which would depending on a ratio of rationality/magic level give a small window (i.e. 30 seconds) where your opponents magic Immunity has a % chance to fail?

[TirunCollimdus]

I think changing magic immunity's duration and giving a chance to break it based on rationality are something that should be done together. As I stated though the returns on the abilities to break and use the spell should increase more as rationality goes up so that you can't get 24 rationality and make a real difference. Only higher level players should be able to affect the spell especially when it is cast by someone with a high magic level. This means mages would have to be as high in magic as fighters are in a/d with high enough attributes to really start pawning people.

 

Taking 48 rationality is not something every fighter is going to be able to do. If anyone thinks this is too easy as well then add vitality into the formula but only half as important. Then you have to balance out taking phys for emu and vitality for more mana and greater power in your spells. If you max out w/r/v and put the rest into phys for some emu then you deserve to be strong with your magic. No coord and no instinct combined with low phys makes training a/d very hard if not impossible after certain levels and you would get pawned in a melee fight.

 

Using rationality plus vitality will make it impossible to be a power house mage and a power house fighter unless you have enough money to buy enough pick points to max out nearly all your attributes. Players who can afford to do this are powerhouses no matter what happens anyway.

 

I think making it so you cannot be mulitied by magic in non-multi maps would be a huge start in the right direction. That would reduce the ability to abuse the new magic system and still allow single mages the ability to try to do PK with magic. You can set the formulas where strong melee fighters will not be your strongest fighters with magic too without totally stripping the fighters of their current strengths. Conavar already pointed this out previously about multi on single combat maps.

 

I agree with Tempest and all of the other experienced PKers in saying that changing MI only be it with wards or just the spell itself is a bad idea for PK. I don't have to be an experienced PKer to see that and no one else should have to be one to see it either.

 

Tirun

[korrode]

This means mages would have to be as high in magic as fighters are in a/d with high enough attributes to really start pawning people.

But no 'Pure Mage' (or anyone for that matter) can build OA levels like an a/d trainer can.

The a/d trainers will easily match the pp's mages have spent on rationality and then still have a lot left over for p/c.

 

This is the hard truth of it:

As nice as it sounds to have a new "mage class" in our classless game, I really don't see how it can be fairly implemented this far into EL's development.

 

 

...and to be perfectly honest, i agree with Naht and Temp; If you haven't got many months of being an active, mid-high level PK'er under your belt, then you have no business suggesting changes to PK.

I realise some people will feel that they are smart enough to be able look at all the available spells, items, attributes, etc. and from that be able to predict and speculate on what EL PK is like, but as with many other things in life, the theory doesn't always match the practice.

[LeoI]

I tried to read this whole thread but I admit its blur of:

 

"kkkty pwnZ0r lmao ...who are ffs, rolfmao...too l33t to, roflmao.....n00b"

 

Ok, As I see it. The only problem is fighters are dependent on magic in order to heal.

So you cannot make a 'mage class' while fighters still need to be fighter-mages.

Solve the problem of fighter-mages and your MI issue goes away.

 

Now you have three options in a classless game, Fighter, Mage, Fighter\Mage.

 

the thing theyre saying though is that harm is too strong not to have mag immune, with there being no cooldown and as many people as possible can harm you in a fight even if it isnt multi

 

 

...and to be perfectly honest, i agree with Naht and Temp; If you haven't got many months of being an active, mid-high level PK'er under your belt, then you have no business suggesting changes to PK.

 

i dont agree with you there because i dont really think you can say anyone has months of active pking. you can go looking for fights all day and maybe find a few people but the only really active day is ndd and if your lucky it comes once a week.

and i do have months of pking exp outside of dpa. i wouldnt say active, i would check the popular places maybe twice a day. if i found someone id fight, if i didnt id give up until the next time i was on.

 

PK ain't even close to dead atm. there are like 20-30~ people in nc pretty much every evening (european time), even if it's not as much as before it's not completly dead.

 

come on. 20-30 people out of how many thousand? not exactly active. and then how many people out of those few dozen are just there to watch? how many of them actually enter the arena to pk? how many of them go into the arena when one strong char comes along? not a lot