Bush to veto waterboarding ban

[Entropy]

Well, it is my hope that those of you agreeing with the torture will have your fair share of it.

[bkc56]

Well, it is my hope that those of you agreeing with the torture will have your fair share of it.

This comment is somewhat disturbing to me. It feels like you're saying: "I find your lack of concern for an issue I feel strongly about so bothersome that I hope you get to experience the very actions I hate".

 

I can understand the concern over the issue of torture, but hoping others get to experience it for themselves just doesn't seem right.

[HeLLRaiZeR]

Where is Lee Harvey Oswald, now that we really need him?

 

This was one of the most funny comments I've ever read..

[anima]

I agree with sl7yz0r on this one, when we get captured we are usually shot,beheaded or beaten to death. Water is is a little slap on the wrist. Would you rather let the terrorist get away with some information that will risk lives, or would you waterboard him to save lives?

 

 

perhaps you have been living in a sealed room with no form of news since 2001, i almost hope so

 

america is trying to bring democracy and fairness to the world, its trying to change middle east countries to be more like them. or at least this is what they tell us.

 

i guess if terrorists are torturing and executing their captives then america has succeded, well at least by its own standards of fairness and democracy.

 

i hope hilary clinton wins the election a female leader did wonders for the UK and she is now seen as a national hero. i think Nader would be as good or better but he wont get elected.

[korrode]

please someone tell me its not just me that gets so sickened by slyzors posts

It's not just you

 

Another prime example are his posts in the thread about animal torture.

 

He's just a little boy who still thinks it's cool to be mean.

[Entropy]

i hope hilary clinton wins the election a female leader did wonders for the UK and she is now seen as a national hero. i think Nader would be as good or better but he wont get elected.

 

Oh, I hope that too, but for totally different reasons.

If she wins, in 2012 most of the Americans will actually check to see who they want to vote with, rather than vote like sheep.

 

@bkc56

This comment is somewhat disturbing to me. It feels like you're saying: "I find your lack of concern for an issue I feel strongly about so bothersome that I hope you get to experience the very actions I hate".

 

I can understand the concern over the issue of torture, but hoping others get to experience it for themselves just doesn't seem right.

Well, I hope you get waterboarded a little too. I would laugh my ass off if that happened, and I wouldn't move a finger to help you.

And yes, "I find your lack of concern for an issue I feel strongly about so bothersome that I hope you get to experience the very actions I hate". That's exactly what I am saying. Everyone who does not find it wrong to invade other countries and torture their people should experience the same kind of treatment.

[Dilly]

Where is Lee Harvey Oswald, now that we really need him?

 

This was one of the most funny comments I've ever read..

 

How is that funny? Bush is president because a majority of American citizens voted him the white house. Now personally, I too think he is a moron who should get his highschool diploma first thing his term ends and actually get some knowledge about the world and things in general. But does he deserve to be killed? No! If you think that, then more than half of the US should be murdered too as they put him there.

 

I think the world may quickly become a better place when Mr Bush moves out of the White house, as my confidence in Billary (no typo!) AND Obama is much bigger. I think whomever wins the elections will be far more sensible and will consider things a bit better than the current administration do.

 

I am SO strongly opposed to torture, whether it is to a 'western world' citizen, or to a suspected terrorist.

 

If you think it is a fair way to treat a prisoner... think of all the guys that are in there because they happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time (and I believe there are many of those!). Think of the horor you felt when western journalists were captured, tortured, and in some cases even beheaded. Now how do you think the world can actually come at peace if we condone of shit like all that.

[bkc56]

Well, I hope you get waterboarded a little too. I would laugh my ass off if that happened, and I wouldn't move a finger to help you.

Well I am relieved to say the reverse is not true.

[Entropy]

I think the world may quickly become a better place when Mr Bush moves out of the White house, as my confidence in Billary (no typo!) AND Obama is much bigger. I think whomever wins the elections will be far more sensible and will consider things a bit better than the current administration do.

 

I don't think Billary is better than Bush, she voted for the war, for the USAPATRIOT act, and for most of the bad bills the Bush administration proposed.

I think Obama is better than Billary, but I wouldn't vote for him either.

[Dilly]

I think the world may quickly become a better place when Mr Bush moves out of the White house, as my confidence in Billary (no typo!) AND Obama is much bigger. I think whomever wins the elections will be far more sensible and will consider things a bit better than the current administration do.

 

I don't think Billary is better than Bush, she voted for the war, for the USAPATRIOT act, and for most of the bad bills the Bush administration proposed.

I think Obama is better than Billary, but I wouldn't vote for him either.

 

well see... yeah ok.. pwned I guess

You got me there.

[ville-v]

You all might be more wrong than you seem to be. This is not a war, for what all those agreements and laws have been made for, but the War Against Terrorism (WAT), so all methods are good if used against the evil. The WAT was not started by US but by terrorists, and that means US is not attacker while attacking, but the attacking is actually defending, peace instead of war because WAT is actually that, peace that might seem a bit like war, so actions used to defend freedom like waterboarding are legal. As a valorous markusweck of the legends US does defend himself and the world from the rising evil, and in the hands of good the actions of evil are good as well as the actions of evil are, obviously, evil. The castle is being attacked by hordes of satanworshipping pagans who eat children of justice, so the guardians of the freedom can eat children of the evil if the do it in the name of the Only God, in the name of the righteousness and valor. So you have to see waterboarding is not torturing, but waterboarding, a legal action after all, because performed by the legal performer, not illegal at all, because the leader has been elected following the spirits of laws and democracy.

[Sayre]

Well, I hope you get waterboarded a little too. I would laugh my ass off if that happened, and I wouldn't move a finger to help you.

Wow.

 

Sorry, but that's an asshole of a thing to say.

 

S.

[Entropy]

Well, I hope you get waterboarded a little too. I would laugh my ass off if that happened, and I wouldn't move a finger to help you.

Wow.

 

Sorry, but that's an asshole of a thing to say.

 

S.

 

Wow

So from the whole thread, the only person that is an asshole is me, yes? Not Bush, not those who support torture, not those who believe that torturers should not themselves be tortured.

Well, guess what, you are a disgrace to the mankind, and it's because of people like you and BKC that shit like this happen in ths world.

[Entropy]

BTW, didn't Jesus say: "He who takes the sword should perish by the sword"?

So if you are a Christian, or adhere to the Christian doctrine, shouldn't you at the very least HOPE that those who torture will themselves be tortured?

[sadarar]

You all might be more wrong than you seem to be.

You think?

 

This is not a war, for what all those agreements and laws have been made for, but the War Against Terrorism (WAT), so all methods are good if used against the evil.

OK. So it is a war on terror. How shall we define terror? Would you say that a dictator that counters those who disagree with him by wiping out entire communities a terrorist? I guess from the tone of your reply here, you would say that yes, somebody who performs such attrocities would be classed as evil.

 

So how about a president of a country who invades a foreign country in the name of god (??!!?) and enforces HIS COUNTRIES standard on that country? And when a large proportion of that foreign country object, guess what? in come the tanks, planes and bombs, and again communities are destroyed. Do not be fooled that the Iraqis who opposed Saddam were any different to those who now oppose the american occupation.

 

Suppose your country was invaded, the government deposed and a system of law put into place that was at odds with your own beliefs and culture. When residents of your town stood up to resist the invaders, I think you may have a different view of "terrorism".

 

The WAT was not started by US but by terrorists, and that means US is not attacker while attacking, but the attacking is actually defending, peace instead of war because WAT is actually that, peace that might seem a bit like war, so actions used to defend freedom like waterboarding are legal.

The wars around the gulf region have been simmering for decades, and have nothing whatsoever to do with WMD, terrorists or whatever other excuse the americans want to pin on it, and to suggest that the carnage the war has bought has anything to do with peace is frankly laughable.

 

 

As a valorous markusweck of the legends US does defend himself and the world from the rising evil

Of all you said in this post, comparing markusweck to the american invaders is about the closest thing to insight

 

and in the hands of good the actions of evil are good as well as the actions of evil are, obviously, evil. The castle is being attacked by hordes of satanworshipping pagans who eat children of justice, so the guardians of the freedom can eat children of the evil if the do it in the name of the Only God, in the name of the righteousness and valor.

"In the name of god"..... come on!!!

 

Show me where god says that it is his wish that christians should gou forth, slaughter, imprison and influct intentional harm on others. Don't get me wrong, I am no church-going bible reading puritan, but I consider myself christian and have a fair knowledge christian values. "You Shall Not Murder". That looks pretty clear to me.

 

Let's look at some other commandments -

 

You Shall not steal

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

 

I wonder just how many sins have been commited in the name of God for the sake of this war?

 

So you have to see waterboarding is not torturing, but waterboarding, a legal action after all, because performed by the legal performer, not illegal at all, because the leader has been elected following the spirits of laws and democracy.

And the actions of Saddam prior to being deposed were also legal by this definition. This is not a war of good versus evil. It is more a case of one shitbag fighting another. More akin to a turf war between rival drug barons than a moral crusade.

 

To cut all of this down into a short summary, it is quite possible for any government to pass laws to legalise any desired action. That does not make it moral, or, in my opinion, acceptable.

[bkc56]

At times you may feel yourself to be the victim of other people's bitterness, ignorance, smallness or insecurities. Try not to judge them - things aren't always what they seem. And it could be worse. You could be them!

 

--Innerspace

[Ateh]

I kind of like ville-v's post because it has so many holes in it we could call it swiss cheese and be done. But lets not, lets instead see why someone has been convinced that the War on Terror is above and beond all other laws in the world.

 

So we have at least one person convinced that The War on Terror is above the law, that could explain why so many people have said '' Torture them torture them !! '' and blindly believed everything they have been told on the news, in the papers and in general by the media. Shame really, the world is a very different place to the one they tell you it is.

 

For instance, after the Second World War , Japanese Military leaders were tried AND convicted of War Crimes, and included in those War Crimes was Water Boarding.

 

Water Boarding is Illegal by International Law, its whats called a '' war crime '' and unless you want to write to the International Criminal Courts and ask them to change things, guess what ? It isnt going to change.

 

The use of Water Boarding is a War Crime , it doesnt matter how you gloss it up and it doesnt matter how innocent the people are who are bing tortured, they are being tortured, and that is a War Crime.

 

BTW , the next time someone uses the Jewish / Christian God in a call to arms againts the Pagans, do I please have permission to get really deep and start schooling them on the origins of thier religion ? Because thats twice Ville-V has started on about the evil pagans, and im pretty sick of it.

[ShYne]

BTW, didn't Jesus say: "He who takes the sword should perish by the sword"?

So if you are a Christian, or adhere to the Christian doctrine, shouldn't you at the very least HOPE that those who torture will themselves be tortured?

 

 

You are talking about jesus and you listen to iron maden, rofl

[peino]

please someone tell me its not just me that gets so sickened by slyzors posts

It's not just you.

 

You all might be more wrong than you seem to be. This is not a war, for what all those agreements and laws have been made for, but the War Against Terrorism (WAT), so all methods are good if used against the evil. The WAT was not started by US but by terrorists, and that means US is not attacker while attacking, but the attacking is actually defending, peace instead of war because WAT is actually that, peace that might seem a bit like war, so actions used to defend freedom like waterboarding are legal. As a valorous markusweck of the legends US does defend himself and the world from the rising evil, and in the hands of good the actions of evil are good as well as the actions of evil are, obviously, evil. The castle is being attacked by hordes of satanworshipping pagans who eat children of justice, so the guardians of the freedom can eat children of the evil if the do it in the name of the Only God, in the name of the righteousness and valor. So you have to see waterboarding is not torturing, but waterboarding, a legal action after all, because performed by the legal performer, not illegal at all, because the leader has been elected following the spirits of laws and democracy.

"WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."

 

No, seriously, ville-v, you have to include SATIRE indicators, because I actually have met people who sincerely say and believe that kind of crazy talk. Hell, who do you think put Bush in office the second time? Loons who think the way you wrote above. The kind who "...had not a thought in her head that was not a slogan, and there was no imbecility, absolutely none, that she was not capable of swallowing if the Party handed it out to her." (Also 1984)

 

 

EDIT to Ateh: I'm unfamiliar with his posting history, but based on his wording, I believe ville-v was being satirical. If not, he should have been, because it was perfect satire, so that's how I'm treating it.

Edited March 11, 2008 by peino

[Entropy]

FFS people, ville-v is trolling, isn't that obvious? Don't feed the trolls.

 

You are talking about jesus and you listen to iron maden, rofl

If you post shit like this again, you are out of here.

[Sayre]

Well, I hope you get waterboarded a little too. I would laugh my ass off if that happened, and I wouldn't move a finger to help you.

Wow.

 

Sorry, but that's an asshole of a thing to say.

 

S.

 

Wow

So from the whole thread, the only person that is an asshole is me, yes? Not Bush, not those who support torture, not those who believe that torturers should not themselves be tortured.

Well, guess what, you are a disgrace to the mankind, and it's because of people like you and BKC that shit like this happen in ths world.

I attack your statement, and you attack me. Because of people like me, people get tortured? Because I don't agree with the concept of an eye for an eye, I am a disgrace to "the mankind"? Because, unlike you, I wouldn't sit and laugh at someone being tortured, and by association being complicit in the exact act perpetrated that so offended you? By being one of the third group of people (those that believe that torturers should themselves be tortured), you become one of the second group (those that support torture). Anyway, learn to read (kk?). I said it was an asshole of a thing to say, not that you are an asshole.

 

S.

 

PS I am not a christian, nor support much of the christian ethos, not that that has anything to do with the issue at hand.

 

PSS Get help.

[Entropy]

I attack your statement, and you attack me.

No. You attacked me, by qualifying my statement as a statement an asshole would make.

Because of people like me, people get tortured? Because I don't agree with the concept of an eye for an eye, I am a disgrace to "the mankind"?

Yes, it is people like you, who tolerate this kind of shit, and think that those who perpetrate it should not get the very same in return.

 

Because, unlike you, I wouldn't sit and laugh at someone being tortured, and by association being complicit in the exact act perpetrated that so offended you?

I am not against the torture itself, I am just against it being practiced when a country signed for a treaty that forbids it (the Geneva Convention), and who invades other countries because their dictator tortured people. I believe that some people, especially those who torture the innocent, should get the same kind of treatment in return.

 

Anyway, learn to read (kk?). I said it was an asshole of a thing to say, not that you are an asshole.

Who would say an asshole of a thing? A nice person, or an asshole?

 

PS I am not a christian, nor support much of the christian ethos, not that that has anything to do with the issue at hand.

It doesn't matter if you are, Bush is.

 

PSS Get help.

 

This is a fucking retard, patethic motherfucker of a thing to say

[Entropy]

At times you may feel yourself to be the victim of other people's bitterness, ignorance, smallness or insecurities. Try not to judge them - things aren't always what they seem. And it could be worse. You could be them!

 

--Innerspace

 

My oh my, we are so supperior, aren't we?

[ville-v]

So we have at least one person convinced that The War on Terror is above the law, that could explain why so many people have said '' Torture them torture them !! '' and blindly believed everything they have been told on the news, in the papers and in general by the media. Shame really, the world is a very different place to the one they tell you it is.

 

For instance, after the Second World War , Japanese Military leaders were tried AND convicted of War Crimes, and included in those War Crimes was Water Boarding.

 

Water Boarding is Illegal by International Law, its whats called a '' war crime '' and unless you want to write to the International Criminal Courts and ask them to change things, guess what ? It isnt going to change.

Probably the reason for people to think waterboarding is not torture, or think torture is good thing, is they do have not a clue what it is. Even in this topic do we have a person who hears "waterboarding" that is being compared to "water torture", so what he (understandably and obviously) thinks is "that ancient chinese water torture". That is, dripping water to the forehead continuously. But is that torture? After all, the water is always dripping from MY TAP, or sometimes even through MY ROOF. How could that be torture? I do survive easily without having to ask plumber to fix it, I do not feel tortured at all.

 

The other methods of that, torturing, that are used by US can be made to sound as innocent. I do remember a soldier somewhere telling: "We just play some Beatles at them." That had been effective. You know, what those terrorists hate the most is western music. Now that is even more innocent. MY CHILDREN do listen always listen to rock music and I do not feel tortured. WHEN I WAS YOUNG, I did listen to the Beatles all the time. What the soldier did forget to tell was that it was played in 70 dB, without a break, for days. But does it make "playing some Beatles" more bad? That's just like being in rock concert, hey, people do like it!

 

Methods used in Abu Ghraib (you know it, it was in MY TV) are as innocent. Just look at some old newspapers.

 

Who wouldn't like torture after all? They just make terrorists to feel life of a common american, and that makes them tell everything instantly! Torturing is not torturing, reason they talk is because of something in their religion. I don't know what exactly it is, but why should I care? I don't want some terrorists to MY BACKYARD, it is bad enough that they are in MY TV.

[Entropy]

ville-v, please clarify something for us: Your location is Finland, and your IP is from Finland too.

So are you just impersonating an American, to make fun of the American nation, or are you a real American that lives in Finland now? And if the later is true, did you tell your friends there about your oppinions?