Where Have The Rost's Gone ?

[bigkav]

Also, they could hunt white tigers, with even more profit. Last I heard they were 50-60 gc per fur. A newb like me can kill them in 5 hits or less with armour, so the typical fighter should have no probs.

 

[A bit off topic but] Just So u Know, White Tiger Furs are going for 100gc+ these days

[Ermabwed]

No. You simply don't get it, sorry

Maybe its you who doesn't get it and its ok no need to say sorry I let you off

Look, there is some extremely basic logic involved and I'm going to explain it to you very carefully as you seem to need that.

 

Let P be the set of all people going to pubs (or owning rostogols).

Let B be the set of all people drinking beer (or using rostogols).

Obviously the intersection of P and B is not empty (i.e. there are people who own and use rostogols.)

My point in that example was that under that assumption you can't take an arbitrary element "Ted" from P and say Ted is not in B as well.

No I cannot prove that they drank beer.... BUT you cannot prove that they didn't ( and by your weird logic they can drink beer till it comes out there ears but if they don't admit to it then they didn't do it )

 

( which is what I meant about the convo going in circles .. and both being right . nothing can be proved either way true ? )

It was never my intention to prove anything. I asked a question. Don't mistake your misunderstanding of my posts for what you perceive to be "my logic", please. And in regards to being right: I was right that you didn't get it

I'm man enough to admit that there may not (doubt it) be "hoarders for profit" out there . are you man enough to admit there might be ?

Already discussed that in a previous post.

 

If you had read the post with the question whether there are "pure hoarders" out there properly or did it after I seriously hinted at that in the two previous posts you could have saved me and you some time

 

maybe there aren't hoarders out there who don't intend to use there rost's but you cannot say that there aren't .

That's why I wanted and still want to know if there are any. Talking about the empty set is rather fruitless (can be funny too though).

[Peach]

i know a hoarder who got over 160 EFEs, 200 serp stones, dunno about other rare stuff, but prolly tons of ELEs and other stones such as bindings and rostos too ^^

[Aphistolas]

i know a hoarder who got over 160 EFEs, 200 serp stones, dunno about other rare stuff, but prolly tons of ELEs and other stones such as bindings and rostos too ^^

 

Burn him!!!

 

( )

[bigkav]

i know a hoarder who got over 160 EFEs, 200 serp stones, dunno about other rare stuff, but prolly tons of ELEs and other stones such as bindings and rostos too ^^

 

yea but see, if theyve spent all that time buying and hoarding, they must have a plan, even so they had the GC to buy the items and as kheres said,

I don't understand why people keep looking into others' storages >.<

which means, stop looking into other ppls sto and focus on ur own, if they have brought all that stuff its the buissness none of ours

~bigk

[Ermabwed]

i know a hoarder who got over 160 EFEs, 200 serp stones, dunno about other rare stuff, but prolly tons of ELEs and other stones such as bindings and rostos too ^^

Ok, so you don't know if he is hoarding rostogols... or if he is and is using them as well or what his intentions are for his hoard

Either way, it leads us back to the "can't tell other people what to do with their stuff or what to keep in their storage". And then there's the fact that the game supports itself by making it necessary that about half of the rostos used per day are purchased in the shop, so regardless of people selling the rostos they have now, the external influx has to be maintained. If the rostogols found on any given day aren't directly transfered to the market (i.e. "hoarded") then for that day the number of rostogols bought in shop has to increase to satisfy demand.

So it all comes down to people buying from shop (which is a good thing in my opinion). Now I'd say rostogols are either bought to be used or to make money, however if RostoforMoneyPlayer doesn't need money there's no reason that he would buy them from the shop to sell them on market... which is basically the same problem as above just this time talking about RL money ("storage/stuff").

 

Oh and I obviously agree with Kheres and bigk on "other people's storages"

[Kaddy]

You know where rostos gone?

 

They are all *POOFED* at yesterday's invasion

 

No more posts

[conavar]

No. You simply don't get it, sorry

Maybe its you who doesn't get it and its ok no need to say sorry I let you off

Look, there is some extremely basic logic involved and I'm going to explain it to you very carefully as you seem to need that.

 

Let P be the set of all people going to pubs (or owning rostogols).

Let B be the set of all people drinking beer (or using rostogols).

Obviously the intersection of P and B is not empty (i.e. there are people who own and use rostogols.)

My point in that example was that under that assumption you can't take an arbitrary element "Ted" from P and say Ted is not in B as well.

 

 

maybe there aren't hoarders out there who don't intend to use there rost's but you cannot say that there aren't .

That's why I wanted and still want to know if there are any. Talking about the empty set is rather fruitless (can be funny too though).

 

Lol please dont misunderstand my sarcasm as me not knowing what you are on about, I 100% understood your point from post 1 and it is a valid point.. What I was trying to get across though was:

 

"My point in that example was that under that assumption you can't take an arbitrary element "Ted" from P and say Ted is not in B as well."

 

That is true and I have never denied that.. but any basic logic has to be viewed from both sides and hence you cannot assume that:

 

All because "Ted" is in group P (owns a rost) he is automatically in group B (uses a rost)

 

Which is what you seemed to be implying in your posts:

ie: A stand alone Group P doesnt exist because people havent admitted to only being in Group P

 

Group P & B 100% intersect but basic unflawed logic suggests that being in group P doesnt by default put you into group B and group P can be a stand alone group ( so in that regard I am right as well )

 

 

and yes the only way to be 100% sure that "there is any" is either:

They grow a set and admit to it

or

Ent with his stats posts a list of everyone who owns over 5 rosts and how many they own.. (and since people have nothing to hide no one should mind) <<< thats a joke btw

 

@ Oldyschooly:

 

That is what I thought as well and I was willing to admit that not as many rost's are being hoarded as we think and that they are being used A LOT in invasions, but Ent says that isnt the case.

Edited January 24, 2008 by conavar

[Zamirah]

Lots of bots have now, but prices are higher after you started posting here.

[conavar]

Lots of bots have now, but prices are higher after you started posting here.

 

 

Really !!

 

Before I posted I was paying about 17.5k from bot ( cheaper from guild members and friends of course) and the last time I looked on Thor ( last night) they were only 17k

[Zamirah]

Lots of bots have now, but prices are higher after you started posting here.

 

 

Really !!

 

Before I posted I was paying about 17.5k from bot ( cheaper from guild members and friends of course) and the last time I looked on Thor ( last night) they were only 17k

Did not check them but was told pepa 18999gc and atomship 18500gc.

I have never seen more than 18k before.

 

Might be because they are cheaper for friends.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Zamirah

[Ateh]

This question : WHere have all the rostos gone ? At least you can still find some ey ? See above posts ^^^

 

Also, its odd to me how the price of a rosto is so cheap anyway considering the price of the top armors nowadays, I mean 1 rosto at 17-18kgc is cheaper than your great sword alone, never mind your COL and full titanium armor

 

Which also leads me to another point , its also odd how nobody is willing to pay the GC for what it actually costs to make your st00f , and then at the same time as not being willing to pay what it costs to make, not happy about paying over 15kgc for a rosto to save it all either.

 

BTW , with the cost of EFE, binding stones/ serp stones nowadays, surely to god sooner or later the price of your armors going to go up to , why shouldnt a rosto price go up in accordance with that ?

[conavar]

This question : WHere have all the rostos gone ? At least you can still find some ey ? See above posts ^^^

 

Also, its odd to me how the price of a rosto is so cheap anyway considering the price of the top armors nowadays, I mean 1 rosto at 17-18kgc is cheaper than your great sword alone, never mind your COL and full titanium armor

 

Which also leads me to another point , its also odd how nobody is willing to pay the GC for what it actually costs to make your st00f , and then at the same time as not being willing to pay what it costs to make, not happy about paying over 15kgc for a rosto to save it all either.

 

BTW , with the cost of EFE, binding stones/ serp stones nowadays, surely to god sooner or later the price of your armors going to go up to , why shouldnt a rosto price go up in accordance with that ?

 

 

Well its human nature , people will only pay what they are willing to pay and if they can get it cheap then they will..the only problem is .. would all manufacturers raise there prices to cover ings and make a profit or would some still sell cheap to get a sale ? therefore forcing others to lower there price or sit on unneeded armour/weapons etc .

 

edit: IMO and I have every symapthy for you trying to make a profit . is that not only are you fighting against prices but you are fighting against each other for a sale... maybe you should make a Manu/craft Guild and come to an agreement on prices

Edited January 24, 2008 by conavar

[Ateh]

its a nice idea con but i think its been suggested before but your first statement is exactly why it wouldnt work, some people will allways undercut

 

which is fine, thats the idea of a free market , and also to just clarify my post a bit - I wasnt necesarily talking about making a profit, more along the lines that if youve noticed the prices of certain ingredients lately, it only makes sense ( or perhaps someone can tell me why it doesnt make sense ) that sooner or later the prices of high end stuff will have to go up in accordance with the cost of ingredients.

 

Thats the thing you see, its the free market, people are allowed to do whatever they want when they want with thier stuff. We cant tell anyone what to sell, just like no one is forced to buy anything.

 

This may seem off topic but it isnt really, because my question still remains why are rostos so cheap when the cost of your cheapest bit of equipment ( if your a PK wearing col, great sword , full ti etc ) is more than the rosto ?

 

It strikes me that the price of rostos has stayed relatively the same as when the worst thing you were going to loose was a col and full iron set with ti serp. Which was still more than 16k anyway lol.

 

Saying that, I still feel for you having to search long and hard for something you want, if you want to see it from another side try buying more than one serp stone at a time.

 

Oh and dont worry about posting an ad on market for buying serp stones just to test my theory, you wont get any replies believe me

[ville-v]

This may seem off topic but it isnt really, because my question still remains why are rostos so cheap when the cost of your cheapest bit of equipment ( if your a PK wearing col, great sword , full ti etc ) is more than the rosto ?

 

It strikes me that the price of rostos has stayed relatively the same as when the worst thing you were going to loose was a col and full iron set with ti serp. Which was still more than 16k anyway lol.

The thing is you can always buy rostogol stones for real money. Gc and dollars have almost constant exchange rate, and as said, people will go with the cheapest option, not one helping economy most.

[conavar]

 

This may seem off topic but it isnt really, because my question still remains why are rostos so cheap when the cost of your cheapest bit of equipment ( if your a PK wearing col, great sword , full ti etc ) is more than the rosto ?

 

 

That is true a single rost is cheap compared to the items you need to protect, but normally it takes more than 1 rost to protect those items before they need replacing ( unless you are unlucky and they break often)'

 

Take myself for example I have lost 7 rost's in the past 14 days... 4 in invasions ( hate trices lol) , 1 in the pk event and 2 in normal pk ( net cutoff sucks) .so it has cost me 119k to protect my items , so using rosts is not that cheap in the long run .

 

 

To put it another way rost's are like a pker/trainers Ings, and as the same as armour a single Ing is cheap its when you add them together it becomes expensive

Edited January 24, 2008 by conavar

[Kaddy]

This may seem off topic but it isnt really, because my question still remains why are rostos so cheap when the cost of your cheapest bit of equipment ( if your a PK wearing col, great sword , full ti etc ) is more than the rosto ?

Make rosts 50k and see if anybody goes to PK... bla bla bla

[Ateh]

 

This may seem off topic but it isnt really, because my question still remains why are rostos so cheap when the cost of your cheapest bit of equipment ( if your a PK wearing col, great sword , full ti etc ) is more than the rosto ?

 

 

That is true a single rost is cheap compared to the items you need to protect, but normally it takes more than 1 rost to protect those items before they need replacing ( unless you are unlucky and they break often)'

 

Take myself for example I have lost 7 rost's in the past 14 days... 4 in invasions ( hate trices lol) , 1 in the pk event and 2 in normal pk ( net cutoff sucks) .so it has cost me 119k to protect my items , so using rosts is not that cheap in the long run .

 

 

To put it another way rost's are like a pker/trainers Ings, and as the same as armour a single Ing is cheap its when you add them together it becomes expensive

 

Yeh I see what you mean, but hang on LOL youve used 7 in the past 14 days and your asking where have all the rostos gone ?

 

And I didnt say Rostos should be 50kgc hehe, but I mean since I started playing 2 years ago they were about 16kgc , a price rise of a couple of thousand GC in two years isnt so bad. Not when you compare it to how much the high end armors cost compared to high end armor two years ago ( iron plate )

[Ermabwed]

No. You simply don't get it, sorry

Maybe its you who doesn't get it and its ok no need to say sorry I let you off

Look, there is some extremely basic logic involved and I'm going to explain it to you very carefully as you seem to need that.

 

Let P be the set of all people going to pubs (or owning rostogols).

Let B be the set of all people drinking beer (or using rostogols).

Obviously the intersection of P and B is not empty (i.e. there are people who own and use rostogols.)

My point in that example was that under that assumption you can't take an arbitrary element "Ted" from P and say Ted is not in B as well.

 

 

maybe there aren't hoarders out there who don't intend to use there rost's but you cannot say that there aren't .

That's why I wanted and still want to know if there are any. Talking about the empty set is rather fruitless (can be funny too though).

 

Lol please dont misunderstand my sarcasm as me not knowing what you are on about, I 100% understood your point from post 1 and it is a valid point.. What I was trying to get across though was:

 

"My point in that example was that under that assumption you can't take an arbitrary element "Ted" from P and say Ted is not in B as well."

 

That is true and I have never denied that.. but any basic logic has to be viewed from both sides and hence you cannot assume that:

 

All because "Ted" is in group P (owns a rost) he is automatically in group B (uses a rost)

 

Which is what you seemed to be implying in your posts:

ie: A stand alone Group P doesnt exist because people havent admitted to only being in Group P

 

Group P & B 100% intersect but basic unflawed logic suggests that being in group P doesnt by default put you into group B and group P can be a stand alone group ( so in that regard I am right as well )

 

 

and yes the only way to be 100% sure that "there is any" is either:

They grow a set and admit to it

or

Ent with his stats posts a list of everyone who owns over 5 rosts and how many they own.. (and since people have nothing to hide no one should mind) <<< thats a joke btw

You obviously can't tell the difference between a question and a statement. This whole thing started off when I asked a question, let me repeat: a question and again just for you: a question!

I never said that there are no hoarders or whatever. Come again for Conavar: a question is not a statement. A question holds no logical value i.e. true or false. Thus, again: I never said there were no hoarders or whatever.

My example has got nothing to do with "a standalone group" or people admitting to something or not. It is very basic set theory and you fail miserably. And another point on this: logic doesn't have to viewed both ways whatever you are thinking this means. The statement I made is true (i.e. If the intersection of two sets is not empty you can't say that an element of the one isn't in the other set as well). The statement that if the intersection of two sets is not empty you can't say that an element of the one set is in the other set as well is a different true statement but has nothing do with my statement and is totally irrelevant to the discussion of what I said... You might as well list your favorite beverages to discuss my point.

 

Let me repeat again: I asked a question, I didn't make a statement. You are operating on the premise that the set of people with rostogols minus the set of people that are using rostogols is not empty. I asked: "Is that so?" You took that question to be a statement, which it wasn't. It was a question, a question, get it? Oh wait, hopefully you'll take that to be a statement as well. Anyways, next you wanted to discuss the example I gave by talking about another statement (i.e. your list of beverages) claiming you were actually discussing with me while just ignoring what I had said. Congratulations.

Oh and because it's been so long: I asked a question. I never said there are or there aren't hoarders. I didn't imply any structure of the sets in my example (i.e. P\cap B\subset B or the like). All the implying this and misunderstanding that on your side have nothing to do with what I said, so don't blame it on me please.

 

Let's review:

* just because people have rostogols doesn't imply they are or aren't using them

* we don't know if there are hoarders or if there aren't but since

* nobody can tell other people what to do with their storages

* the whole discussion is pointless except for raising prices on bots it seems. Congratulations.

 

We also learned:

* a question is not a statement, thus we'll refrain from assigning boolean values to questions

* when one wants to discuss statement A, just saying statement B is true as well doesn't change anything about statement A.

* a question is not a statement. Questions are easily recognizable by question marks.

* reading properly is important.

* a question is not a statement.

[conavar]

 

 

 

Yeh I see what you mean, but hang on LOL youve used 7 in the past 14 days and your asking where have all the rostos gone ?

 

 

That is why knowing how many I have personaly lost in invasions I wondered if that was having a major impact on the supply but Ent say that isnt the case and less are still used. normaly I could lose one and replace it straight away and hopfully looking at bots the market seems to have stabalized a bit, but the past couple of weeks any a bot put up for sale were gone in less than 2 hours and I couldnt see the connection between less PK and less rost's for sale.. which is why I started the post

[Ateh]

Im sorry I was trying to lighten the vibe a bit by making a bad joke out of a situation, but yeh I see what your sayin and i completely understand what you mean about not being able to find stuff and / or it being sold within minutes of getting put onto a bot.

 

Perhaps me comparing rostogols to other rare stones is somewhat pointless, but i'll give it a shot anyway using serp stones.

 

It * seems * ( note that I said seems , as in not definate ) that there are less of them about lately, and to coincide with there seeming to be less of them, the price keeps going up. Less than a year ago i'm sure they were about 1-2k. Now theyre 3-3.5k , even seen a bot selling one for 4k the other day, and plus on top of that a friend of mine was looking for some serp stones during the scientist day and ended up offering way more than 3.5k , and HEY PRESTO suddenly someone was selling them.

 

Perhaps its the perception that there are less of certain things that has increased prices, or perhaps its that people are just greedy buggers and want to buy everything cheap and sell everything expensive

 

*edit* spelling mistakes ( or perhaps this whole post was a mistake and i should have just wiped it lol )

Edited January 24, 2008 by Ateh

[conavar]

 

It * seems * ( note that I said seems , as in not definate ) that there are less of them about lately, and to coincide with there seeming to be less of them, the price keeps going up. Less than a year ago i'm sure they were about 1-2k. Now theyre 3-3.5k , even seen a bot selling one for 4k the other day, and plus on top of that a friend of mine was looking for some serp stones during the scientist day and ended up offering way more than 3.5k , and HEY PRESTO suddenly someone was selling them.

 

Perhaps its the perception that there are less of certain things that has increased prices, or perhaps its that people are just greedy buggers and want to buy everything cheap and sell everything expensive

 

 

Well only Ent can say for sure how many serp stones are ingame and if there is a shortage or not.

 

Imo the price hasnt gone up that much bots still only buy for 2-2.5k (the proper value) and then sell for 3.5k and this leads to players thinking " right a bot sells for 3.5 so why shouldnt I " instead of being sensible about it (IMO) and saying " right the serp I just found is bonus cash, it didnt cost me anything so I will sell straight to other players for 2k "

 

Bots seem to rightly or wrongly force the economy when it should be the players doing that

Edited January 24, 2008 by conavar

[Matty27]

 

Yes if a peaceful harvester wants to keep 10 shiny rost's in storage and never use them thats there choice, a stupid choice imo but there choice none the less, and once again by that logic if an ebul trainer/pker wants to keep 100 EFE in his storage and never use them, thats his right as well isnt it ? , its not hurting anyone ?

If harvesters wish to hoard them so they can protect their CoL in an invasion that they happened to be afk for, then it's their choice - you can think it is stupid all you want, but to the harvester who has saved up the money for CoL it definitely isn't a stupid choice. Or do the high level fighters deserve to find a CoL because harvesters didn't have a rost? Actually, if the harvester is wearing CoL and not carrying rost in an invasion map then the high level fighters do deserve to find the CoL

 

 

 

That true but you missed the rest of the paragraph. the point I was trying to make ( and maybe not very well ) is that .. the same people who are saying " yes we dont use rost's and its fine to hoard them" are proberly the same people who would be up in arms if someone was hoarding an item they used alot (efe's,serp stone's etc)

 

I think I did miss that point. I am not a person who thinks anyone should relinquish their items for my needs/desires though. I am definitely up in arms about anyone saying that I should relinquish anything from my storage to satisfy their demands, which is the opposite to the person/s you are trying to describe there. The way I see things is that if you want something, go buy/harvest/find it.

 

Incidentally, the reason I missed the rest of the paragraohs in my quotes was to cut down on the bits I didn't have a reply for because they are mostly not in my experience of EL over the last two years, so I cannot comment on them.

[Khalai]

Imo the price hasnt gone up that much bots still only buy for 2-2.5k (the proper value) and then sell for 3.5k and this leads to players thinking " right a bot sells for 3.5 so why shouldnt I " instead of being sensible about it (IMO) and saying " right the serp I just found is bonus cash, it didnt cost me anything so I will sell straight to other players for 2k "

 

Of course, you can consider it extra cash, but you naturally want to punch the best from it, so you sell it for average price on the market. And there is no sensibility of selling way under average market price, that's just dumbness. If I put it to the extreme, NMT drops are also "extra" cash, so why don't players sell them for "add low price here"instead of 350kgc? (last sentence is not meant to be serious, but as kind of extreme comparisment )

[conavar]

Imo the price hasnt gone up that much bots still only buy for 2-2.5k (the proper value) and then sell for 3.5k and this leads to players thinking " right a bot sells for 3.5 so why shouldnt I " instead of being sensible about it (IMO) and saying " right the serp I just found is bonus cash, it didnt cost me anything so I will sell straight to other players for 2k "

 

Of course, you can consider it extra cash, but you naturally want to punch the best from it, so you sell it for average price on the market. And there is no sensibility of selling way under average market price, that's just dumbness. If I put it to the extreme, NMT drops are also "extra" cash, so why don't players sell them for "add low price here"instead of 350kgc? (last sentence is not meant to be serious, but as kind of extreme comparisment )

 

I agree and in any statement I am only speaking for myself.. what other players sell there serp stones etc for is up to them , and if I do sell to players ( and im guilty of selling to bots for ease of use) then I never sell for more than I could sell to a bot for.. maybe like you say that is dumb but im not ingame to screw anyone over