Spell charges in items

[Warlove_Bagpipe]

Hi

I searched forums for "charge", "spell charges" (in titles only) and i found nothing so I've decided to public my idea.

Mainly its a idea of having items which are charged with spells. When such item would be used it should be treated same way as player cast a spell with exception of not loosing mana or minimum use of mana points. Power of such spell and chance of failure should be standardized for easily implementation but its also should be discussed. What kind of items should be chargeable its also a open question but my two ideas are :

- charged rings

Such rings should require crafting skill, a silver/gold ring, ingredients for spell and Potion of spirit restoration for example or other ingredient which balance power of such rings (it should be suitably for every spell). These rings should be stackable. Of course teleport to portal room should not be chargeable. (and maybe other few spells to)

- scrolls(or stones)

Scrolls idea is similar to rings idea and main difference is that creation of scrolls should use magic skill instead of craft skill. That would make magic exping more fun and interesting. Magic level for create charged items should be twice(or even more) more then required for cast a spell.

You wold ask for sure for what we need doubling ways to cast a spell?

So it could make a richer economy. Alch'ers makes and essences, crafters makes a chargeable items, mages (or crafters) charge such items and finally lazy warriors use charged items. Such warriors could be more pointed to only fight because they no need (or minimal use of) mana points and they could take more effective spells with one restock (they can take 100 ring/scroll of heal instead of 50 health essence and 10 Potions of spirit restoration for example). Of course it will be more expensive. Market price of charged items to their profits require a good balance but i think that rich lazy players would prefer charged items (maybe its cost more but i care nothing more )

 

Its a only sketch of idea but I think its worth of open discussion.

OnyXa

[TheComet]

This idea has been suggested before in a few forms, but it's a good idea.

 

I would say it could work if the price is handled well, and that it takes additional magic nexus to create the items.

 

As for rec lvl, I say it should just match the level it takes to cast the spell, maybe 5 more than that, but the magic nexus would be the price for being to make them (they'd be like the summoning stone of magic)

 

This is an idea I'd like to see ingame honestly, as long as using the item doesn't give exp.

Edited January 12, 2008 by TheComet

[Rehdon]

Some time ago I proposed a way to improve the magic skill, which led to a discussion where we discussed about runes as magic-carrying objects (spells would be engraved on runes), very similar to summoning stones. This is the original thread:

 

How to improve the magic skill

 

Rehdon

[Entropy]

Problem is, if we do that many people will not even try to level up magic.

[Rehdon]

Problem is, if we do that many people will not even try to level up magic.

 

I'm afraid you're right there. But runes don't have to be exactly the same as summoning stones: since they're magical objects you might require a % of the magic level of the original spell by the user. So any character using a mana drain rune should have at least a magic level of 32 (assuming the % is set to 80%).

 

To further avoid rune abuse you could also set the following limits:

 

- every rune requires a fixed amount of mana to work, like 5 or 10 points (again, being a magical object it requires some magic capability on the user's part);

- add a little chance of misfiring, with a (limited) damage for the user: the chance would gradually decrease until the magic level of the user is equal to that required by the original spell (this way rune users would also be pushed to level up magic).

 

Hope there will be some shake-up in the magic area! (btw what did you think about my original idea?).

 

Rehdon

[Vanyel]

Problem is, if we do that many people will not even try to level up magic.

 

I'm not sure if it is really a problem. Not everybody has to be an all-rounder, after all. If somebody decides on buying expensive magic items it should be his choice. I'd like to see this idea in game.

The other issue that may appear is a high-level spells available for low-level characters. It could be solved easily, though, with properly balanced magic items prices.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Kheres

[GarfieldClowntje]

Ot you need magic nexus to handle the magic enchanted items.

 

The higher the magic spell within the object, the higher nexus needed.

 

(and so the magic nexus would get a use for magic stuff ...)

 

 

 

((ps. I would love to see nexus needed for the magic spells itself as well, but that's a totally different discussion ))

[Zamirah]

Ot you need magic nexus to handle the magic enchanted items.

 

The higher the magic spell within the object, the higher nexus needed.

 

(and so the magic nexus would get a use for magic stuff ...)

 

 

 

((ps. I would love to see nexus needed for the magic spells itself as well, but that's a totally different discussion ))

Yes and for magic armor/weapons.

[Warlove_Bagpipe]

Problem is, if we do that many people will not even try to level up magic.

This could be balanced. Use of charged items could require some magic level for example 1/2 or 1/3 that is required to cast spell in item.

[DogBreath]

Does this cause an issue with the number of items in game/storage. What I mean by this is, you have one with 20 charges, one with 19, one with 18, etc...

 

How could they possibly stack if they have a different number of charges in them? (seems like a programming nightmare to me...)

 

Also, I read it a couple of times to be sure, but I didn't see you mention any requirement for 'using' these items. That causes me some concern as I could see these items being used by people who otherwise wouldn't qualify to use such 'spells'. For teleport, this isn't really an issue, but with other magic spells, this might cause an imbalance. Since there are already damage rings, then would we need more such rings? And if so, should there be requirements for usage?

 

I also think 'mages' who've worked very hard on their magic levels might feel a bit put out by the fact that someone with no skill can still use the same spells they can (perhaps the 'power' being relative to magic/rationality that you suggested makes this not so worrysome....)

 

Perhaps trying to enhance the 'lazy warrior' is a mistake. If they're lazy, they should suffer for their lazyness. In fact, the warrior is the one best equipped to carry the extra items they need to compensate for their lack of mana/magic skills. They have the largest capacity already, why not make them use it, as the game currently does?

 

IMHO this is an effort to 'undo' the recent changes to magic by once again making the 'warrior' the most powerful class at the expense of the other 'classes'... And, before you check, I have pure warrior stats and am quite able to live with the recent changes. Yes, I have to carry more HEs and SRs with me, oh well, I have the emu to do it... If I want more mana available, then I wear my CoM.

 

I forsee the outcome of this suggestion being a step backwards. Sorry for the negative opinion.

[Warlove_Bagpipe]

Does this cause an issue with the number of items in game/storage. What I mean by this is, you have one with 20 charges, one with 19, one with 18, etc...

For easy implement charged items should be stackable and one item have one sell in it.

 

I also think 'mages' who've worked very hard on their magic levels might feel a bit put out by the fact that someone with no skill can still use the same spells they can (perhaps the 'power' being relative to magic/rationality that you suggested makes this not so worrysome....)

Most advanced mages could make profit form creation of charged items.

 

IMHO this is an effort to 'undo' the recent changes to magic by once again making the 'warrior' the most powerful class at the expense of the other 'classes'...

In my point of view EL isn't a game that your main goal is to kill a monster. Thats why i personally like to do other activities in EL (i think not only me).

 

I forsee the outcome of this suggestion being a step backwards. Sorry for the negative opinion.

Thanks, your criticism is constructive .

[trollson]

Does this cause an issue with the number of items in game/storage. What I mean by this is, you have one with 20 charges, one with 19, one with 18, etc...

For easy implement charged items should be stackable and one item have one sell in it.

This is a common stumbling point for this type of suggestion.

 

EL's design requires that a slot can only contain identical, interchangeable items: A wand with 20 charges

is different from one with 19 charges, and so uses a separate slot, regardless of whether the wand is stackable.

[Vanyel]

I think that wands with different charges shall take separate slots. It is the only logical solution. I hardly can imagine anybody would be keeping 21 magic wands with 20-0 chargers on them.

[extrapolation]

I dont like this idea because it lets people make money when theyre leveling magic, cos they sell their produce. As it is at the moment, you have to waste money on air ess to level. Should stay this way IMO

[trollson]

I dont like this idea because it lets people make money when theyre leveling magic, cos they sell their produce.

Nothing wrong with selling your product to make money, thats pretty much the basis of any economy.

 

There is only a problem is if this creates new money; so don't have any NPCs buy the product (or only at a low rate -- the 1:10 ratio).

 

 

 

So much emphasis on levelling and training...

...when can we start playing the game?

[extrapolation]

being able to sell your produce (to players) and use the money to buy back the ingredients to get the exp all over again makes leveling too easy.

[trollson]

being able to sell your produce (to players) and use the money to buy back the ingredients to get the exp all over again makes leveling too easy.

Again, this is how you make a living. Supply and demand in a free market will constrain the effect:

• There must be enough demand for the product amongst the characters.
  
• If production is too high prices drop until the circuit becomes unprofitable.
  

The should be no problem with this so long as trade is with player characters, who are a finite market. The economy stumbles when there is unlimited supply and demand through NPCs.

 

 

On the original topic:

You could contrive an approach where a "stack" was the item, with the count as number of charges. This would require different transfer rules though -- stacks could not be split or merged by normal methods, and only one stack-item allowed in an inventory, storage, or bag.

Edited February 14, 2008 by trollson

[Isenwolf]

EL's design requires that a slot can only contain identical, interchangeable items: A wand with 20 charges

is different from one with 19 charges, and so uses a separate slot, regardless of whether the wand is stackable.

 

i think a way to do this would be to have items like this made into "folders" in the storage. such as you click on the wand, and you go to another folder inside the magic folder. (dont know if folder is the right word) then you can go back to the main folder through a button saying "go back" or just "back", like in the encyclopedia