scarr Report post Posted November 3, 2006 i vote for sux, cuz lot of people already spend PPs on nexuses, and who dont want to reset it would be ok, if evry1 could get hes pp for nexus back :> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyFrog Report post Posted November 3, 2006 I voted in favour of this because... 1. It's nexus only NOT p/c. This will lead to more rounded characters in the game as people will be able to train more skills, and will not lead to even more inflated p/c warriors. If it was pick points or even worse xp that was being suggested then I would vote no. 2. A nexus is useless on its own, you need the skill lvl to go with it. So basically this isn't a fast track to being an uber manu/pot/craft etc. person because to get an advantage you will still need to grind through the levels. 3. This may well make hydro bars more expensive, however this will encourage more people to work on their har, manu and alch to cash in... this will increase supply, lowering the price and again give the benefit of more rounded players. 4. I am not a high lvl char, I don't have a 3 figure oa, I am not in the top 100 in any skill (unless someone has done a #kill_me during the night). But... I have trained up a range of skills and am in a position where I can carry out all the steps required to produce hydro bars on my own. I am not a 'high level player' neither am I a 'high a/d' player however this proposed change will directly benefit me... if I CHOOSE to profit from it. 5. Finally, I think the main arguement against this proposal is bunk. "super rich given an advantage"??? really??? how??? is LuciferX (I don't know why people are scared to use his name) going to trade in cash for hydro bars in order to take up tele ring crafting??? The ONLY nexus which does not require a serious amount of time investment in order to be of use in human... so unless there is a super sword about to be introduced that requires a human 10 to wield there is no advantage to be gained unless the player puts in the hours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suessie Report post Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) nvm Edited November 6, 2006 by Suessie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thunderous Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Very great idea! For the ppl who wants PP for p/c instead of nexus: You can spend the PP to p/c you'll save not putting them into a nexus. For the ppl who still have a lot of PP in nexuses: reset also is a lot of fun - leveling up again I voted "OMG this r0x!", of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ttlanhil Report post Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) oh really? which ones do I want more of? none of them, actually.I hope you realize that no one is going to force you to get any nexus.right. for some people, this idea will have a big impact. for others, especially older characters, it won't... except that they now lose out because the new players have more options. unless the reset is only to get back PP, and not drop OA, it's strongly biased against players who have put in the hard work to get the nexii alreadyBesides, the game is not done, there will always be new things to do, and higher nexuses required.sure, and at some stage I might want 10 per nexus... but if you compare a character who bought 30 PP worth of nexii and the rest from bars, vs the player who bought nearly all from bars (which is possible, simply specialise until rich... heck, you could do only alch, hire people to harvest the higher level stuff, and get a high level and a fair bit of cash with all your PP going to stats), no matter how much is added, those who got to buy nexii come out ahead (at high levels, getting the money to buy the bars is just as feasable as leveling, and it doesn't get harder the more you get)I do get what you've said. I just think that, generally, the harder someone worked at EL, the more time they put in, the more this idea penalises them For the ppl who wants PP for p/c instead of nexus: You can spend the PP to p/c you'll save not putting them into a nexus.that's exactly the problem. the above, plus not having to spend PP on nexii means you can buy the ability to get higher statsFor the ppl who still have a lot of PP in nexuses: reset also is a lot of fun - leveling up again shyeah, right... and how high have you gotten and reset from? even the top fighters will take a long time to recover from a OA100+ reset, let alone people working in skills that don't increase at that xp-giving rate Edited November 3, 2006 by ttlanhil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conavar Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Personally i think this idea has plus and negative points which have been stated by many in previous posts.The idea i do find most appealing though is Pipers for nexus stones,this idea gives all level players a chance to benifit wether its using the stone themselves or selling it on . I would go one step further and make the stones about as rare as a rosto and to make the stones specific to one nexus ie: stone of human nexus... stone of magic nexus etc. you could also have a very,very rare stone of pick point which could then be used on anything from nexus's to phys or coord . The quest idea would also get my thumbs up .if the quest were made high level only then this give the players who have spent time and effort levelling up there character a reward (im mid-level my self) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thunderous Report post Posted November 3, 2006 For the ppl who wants PP for p/c instead of nexus: You can spend the PP to p/c you'll save not putting them into a nexus.that's exactly the problem. the above, plus not having to spend PP on nexii means you can buy the ability to get higher statsFor the ppl who still have a lot of PP in nexuses: reset also is a lot of fun - leveling up again shyeah, right... and how high have you gotten and reset from? even the top fighters will take a long time to recover from a OA100+ reset, let alone people working in skills that don't increase at that xp-giving rate I dont see the problem, you still need OA to get PP for P/C/W and you will not make so many hydro bars to fill up all nexues. But if you want to level in all skills you cant do that because you'll never get enought PP without negperks. I did reset 3 times since i play with OA 82, 102 and finnally 112. And i had never all nexuses i'd like to have. You can put all into p/c/w to fight or into nexus to work on all other skills. Thats also one reason why i did reset and i know some other ppl who did the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rusikus Report post Posted November 3, 2006 I think.... That will be very cool I voted YES Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trollson Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Definitely no. This is effectively the same as buying attributes: RL cash to gc in via the shop, gc to nexus releases pick points, which then go to boost attributes even more. I can see the immediate gratification appeal, but I'm afraid it would seriously weaken character development, and thus the game, in the long run. Characters diversity would decreased, when it should be being increased. Consider nexus as cultural attributes, alongside the other physical and mental attributes. They server a vital role in this game -- the determine what a character can do; skills only say how well they can do it. I would prefer to see the expected range of nexus value being more equivalent to other attributes; more of a balance of choice between developing physical, mental, and cultural attributes; more imaginative combinations of {skill,nexus} in defining tasks (as I have discussed before). So, big definite No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arkoren Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Voted NO for allready mentioned reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marack Report post Posted November 3, 2006 The OA level will not change. In regards to items; 1) no comment. 2) Not wanting to restate the obvious - "EL was designed to be a classless game...". I responded to this comment by suggesting that I believe a "class" structure is evolving in the game...independant of its intented design. I make this comment in that this change would benefit high "level" players more than it would lower level players...perpetuating a "class" structure within the game, intended or not. I rest... I think you still miss the point. It is obvious that many players don't want to focus on all the skills, since most like just a few skills. HOWEVER, the idea is that the mechanics of the game should NOT impose a class segregation. And I fail to see how this will not benefit the low level players. Do you think it rains with hydrogenium bars from the sky or something? I could be convinced that this change would work if, when implemented, any nexus earned by a PP would be reset and the player would get their PP back. Then and only then...a nexus would be bought with hydro bars as you propose. I dont buy into the notation that lower level players benefit equally from this propostion as stated just becuz they get to make the bars. Today, hydro bars don't fall from the sky...but they will...they will become readily available and the price will drop...we all know this will happen. Thanks for listening... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conavar Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Personally i cant see why ppl should get there PP back if they buy a nexus . As far as i understand it this idea is intended to be a BONUS way for player to recieve nexus's . no one is bein forced to reset or buy nexus's its just and added + for ppl who would like to Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niemand Report post Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) I voted yes, i think in the interest of gamedevelopment it is a good idea. However, as stated before, it has its drawback for those who already spent a massive amount of pp in nexuses. Maybe a arrangement can be worked out for those allround skilled players. No idea how, because i know that whatever solution is made, it will have a downside for some players and their will be players forced to do a reset to be able to get to where they want to go. Edited November 3, 2006 by niemand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jezebelle Report post Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) hmm..I made some calculations..and came up with a number of total exp you can get from making 50 hydro bars from scratch.. Now..if they arent acurate..please dont shoot me..but adjust..I believe however they are correct.. I did the calculations from the stats of someone with will 14..i thinks thats a reasonable average number. 50 hydro bars= 50250 exp ingreds to make: 200 Coal=7000 exp 500 Fire Essence=5500 exp ingreds: 500 Red Rose=10500 exp 500 Red Snapdragon=7000exp 500 Sulfur=14000 exp 500 Hydrogenium= 32500 exp total: 114150 exp Ingredients to make: 500 s2e= 72500 exp ingreds needed: 2000 fire essence= 22000 exp: 2000 red rose= 42000exp 2000 red snaps=28000 exp 2000 sulphur=56000 exp 1000 iron bars= 125000 exp ingreds needed: 3000 coal= 105000 exp 7000 iron ore= 266000 exp 2000 fire essence= 22000 exp ingreds needed: 2000 red rose= 42000exp 2000 red snaps=28000 exp 2000 sulphur=56000 exp total: 864500 exp 8000 steel bars=1160000xp ingreds needed: 40000 Coal=140000 exp 64000 Iron Ore=243200 exp 24000 Fire Essence=264000 exp ingreds needed: 24000 Red Rose=504000 exp 24000 Red Snapdragon=336000 exp 24000 Sulfur=672000 exp total: 2149200 total amount of exp: 3127850 my point being..is this enough to get an OA pp..is it worth it..and is it satisfying.. Jez Edited November 3, 2006 by Jezebelle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torr Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Vote: Sux! Why? Becouse this game is going only on fighters hand, i spent 18 pp\'s on nexus and need to spend 3-4 more, its not my problem if fighters didnt think before they spent pp\'s on p/c. Now fighters will be able to get every skill they wont easier than some manufacturer/potioner/crafter/etc. For 4 months in a raw of playing, none update affect fighters, if it was, than was going in their good. Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rusikus Report post Posted November 3, 2006 After introduction buyable nexus, EL will become more interesting for one-way players for example warriors with big OA. One-way players with big OA can develop in different fields (crafting, manufacturing, summoning or something) That will be great for they Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyFrog Report post Posted November 3, 2006 total amount of exp: 3127850 my point being..is this enough to get an OA pp..is it worth it..and is it satisfying.. Jez If someone thinks it's worth it then they'll do it... if they don't then they wont... that's the wonderful thing about choice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thunderous Report post Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) Vote: Sux! Why? Becouse this game is going only on fighters hand, i spent 18 pp\'s on nexus and need to spend 3-4 more, its not my problem if fighters didnt think before they spent pp\'s on p/c. Now fighters will be able to get every skill they wont easier than some manufacturer/potioner/crafter/etc. For 4 months in a raw of playing, none update affect fighters, if it was, than was going in their good. Cheers! lol, this is not for fighters, since most fighters dont care about the other skills. This is for allround ppl who want be able to train on monsters or maybe go to pk and do things like harvesting diamonds for example. I cant see a disadvantage for ppl who will only harvesting and mix bars and stay on a/d 4. Anybody in that game who did never kill a rabbit ? And if you play for a long time you maybe want to kill a wolf or a goblin and so on - so you maybe need some p/c or not ? Edited November 3, 2006 by thunderous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sithicus Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Great idea. Because of the outrageous price, not many people will use this anyway. It means that it is possible to pk effectively AND do something else besides, NOT that pkers become more powerful in any way. Add the increased demand for low level work like making humongeous amounts of steelbars, this is a very good idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suessie Report post Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) nvm Edited November 6, 2006 by Suessie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GarfieldClowntje Report post Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) I love it when MyLady does some calculation that's why I do a lot of those in W&W-guild I dont shoot at you jeze I would never but ... there are a few adjustments I could think of: hmm..I made some calculations..and came up with a number of total exp you can get from making 50 hydro bars from scratch.. Now..if they arent acurate..please dont shoot me..but adjust..I believe however they are correct.. I did the calculations from the stats of someone with will 14..i thinks thats a reasonable average number. 50 hydro bars= 50250 exp ingreds to make: 200 Coal=7000 exp 500 Fire Essence=5500 exp ingreds: 500 Red Rose=10500 exp 500 Red Snapdragon=7000exp 500 Sulfur=14000 exp 500 Hydrogenium= 32500 exp total: 114150 exp Ingredients to make: 500 s2e= 72500 exp ingreds needed: 2000 fire essence= 22000 exp: 2000 red rose= 42000exp 2000 red snaps=28000 exp 2000 sulphur=56000 exp 1000 iron bars= 125000 exp ingreds needed: 3000 coal= 105000 exp 7000 iron ore= 266000 exp 2000 fire essence= 22000 exp ingreds needed: 2000 red rose= 42000exp 2000 red snaps=28000 exp 2000 sulphur=56000 exp total: 864500 exp 8000 steel bars=1160000xp ingreds needed: 40000 Coal=140000 exp 64000 Iron Ore=243200 exp 24000 Fire Essence=264000 exp ingreds needed: 24000 Red Rose=504000 exp 24000 Red Snapdragon=336000 exp 24000 Sulfur=672000 exp total: 2149200 total amount of exp: 3127850 my point being..is this enough to get an OA pp..is it worth it..and is it satisfying.. Jez you wont get those amounts of exp for the harvesting, unless you wait an hour to harvest 240 red roses again ((Now, I have spend 30 pp's at nexii atm, and I havent read the total topic yet ... and I will see what is said about pp's allready spend on the nexii now. I wouldnt like it if I have to do a reset to benefit from this. But as I said, havent read whole topic yet, so this might be editted to the positive )) now first lunch lunch done -edit: k, I read the topic and I got my answer... I aint fully done with nexii yet, so I can still benefit from this system for 1 or 2 of them, prob not more. Voted Yes GarfieldClown Edited November 3, 2006 by GarfieldClowntje Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tanyia Report post Posted November 3, 2006 If this had been to buy PPs in general, I would have voted no. But since it is only for nexuses, I think that it will keep character development fair. It's a bit like having new and very very expensive negative perks (negative because they are SO expensive ;-) ). And thanks for not selling the bars from the shop Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raz Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Reading through the above - quite convincing arguments for both sides. I voted no - I feel that this disadvantages those who have already invested in nexii, as opposed to a/d. Could it be possible for those with over X already invested in nexii get one transferred? Either way it will not affect me, I cannot see me having the gc to invest in Hydro bars, nor the need for pp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gen_Axis Report post Posted November 3, 2006 I like this idea, i don't think anyone will get fast for example 5000 s2e to buy 10 nexuses, you can get 1 pp at higher lvl while someone will make 50 bars to buy one... i DO realize there is going on about something different, but still, with such a hard way to buy nexuses it's quite fair. I'm lvl 109 OA now, got human 7, magic 3 and 5 in all other nexuses, some new cool stuff require at least 6 nexus, so for me making 50 bars to get 1 ( one !) nexus more I REALLY want to get (it's animal btw) is good solution than getting next OA. Btw (stated above) making all ingreds myself it's quite nice exp in couple skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Knuckles Report post Posted November 3, 2006 Jeze, you say 3.1M is enough for a OA level? And Ent is talking about OA's 120+ and I'm not there yet, only a few away, and I need almost 4M for my OA level, so yes, I think it is worth it.. It wont cost me much either, which is a nice thing too. I voted yes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites