Gohan Report post Posted November 28, 2006 That should be fine, my brother promised me to make a nice lay-out and make me able to host things myself. That should be taken care of soon enough since he's currently still trying to find a job and has some free time. -Blee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantis Report post Posted November 29, 2006 I made a Mac Script for unexperienced mac users, just PM me with your email address if you want it (doesn't require technical knowledge, except pressing a button). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasperCat Report post Posted December 2, 2006 What about HobGoblins ? I can get the stats if you want ? deCat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammie Report post Posted December 2, 2006 What about HobGoblins ? I can get the stats if you want ? deCat about 45 a/d p/c not sure jammie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasperCat Report post Posted December 3, 2006 Hobgoblin : 70 Life Attack Points 31 Defence Points 24 Me Attack 53 Defence 52 Phys 26 Co 32 Rat 13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenRei Report post Posted December 3, 2006 Excel file updated. Still missing: * Panda defense * Slessar (all data) * Lots of minimum A/D stats (high level people: attack weak things and let us know the results!) * Creature specials, or creatures with verifiably high/low P/C (for the "bonus" and extra info columns) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smalul Report post Posted December 3, 2006 (edited) I'm working on my own file with A/D and HP info about the creatures. I'm checking most of the information myself, to be 100% sure. BleedingSoul - you have some mistakes in your file, as well as some missing information, so I fixed what I can so far (I've added the pandas' values - it's 58/30/160, and hobgoblins - 36/40/70) , and here it is: http://www.geocities.com/smalul/FinalChart.xls This is an Excel file. I would also like another confirmation for those values (some have a discrepancy between the values listed on the two excel files posted in this thread, or between the values I have and the values I got here): Deer - A/D Fox - A/D Large Spider - A/D. I know the def value is 30, but can't be 100% sure about the attack value. Rabbit - A/D Rat - A/D Small Spider - A/D (18/18)? Tiger - A/D (55/55)? White Rabbit - A/D White Tiger - A/D Phantom Warrior - A/D I would also like to re-check all of the low-level creatures' values, just like KarenRei wrote - all snakes (Brown, Red, Green), skunks, raccoons and so on. I also can't fight all high-level monsters myself, so a re-check of those would be nice too. About my program - I haven't updated the creatures' A/D and HP values, but I did add a combat level calculator (just thought it would be nice). Here is the link again: http://www.geocities.com/smalul/EL_Calculators.zip See my previous post about the dll files you might need to run it. I will update it soon with the new values. Edit: OK, I've updated my program with the most recent values I have. Edited December 3, 2006 by smalul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gohan Report post Posted December 3, 2006 Smalul, I said to post any missing or wrong information in my file here. So I could edit it. Could you post all the wrong and missing informations in mine here so I can edit/add them? KarenRei: I know the Sslessar's a/d aswell as its hitpoints. -Blee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RallosZek Report post Posted December 3, 2006 * Lots of minimum A/D stats (high level people: attack weak things and let us know the results!) Nope, some creatures are built that way, with very low def but very high attack. Using attack as defense, bear type in general is like this, exception the polar bear. So to find someone willing to try and hit a bear, before it sends him to underworld is a bit tricky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smalul Report post Posted December 3, 2006 Smalul, I said to post any missing or wrong information in my file here. So I could edit it. Could you post all the wrong and missing informations in mine here so I can edit/add them? First of all, you were missing the Leopard (35/35/45), Panda Bear (58/30/160), Small Spider, Tiger, Hobgoblin (36/40/70), and Red Snake creatures. Names - it's Large Spider, not Giant Spider. Wrong HP - the HP for Female Goblin is 55, not 40, The HP for Fox is 25 (not 20), Raccoon - 20 (not 18), Skunk - 18 (not 20). Missing HP - Black Bear - 120, Black Panther - 60, Feran - 55, Snow Leopard - 35. That's what I got so far. My file has all this information, so feel free to use it. I hope this would help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenRei Report post Posted December 4, 2006 My file has this information as well. I was missing Panda defense, though, Thanks! Also, what is Slessar A/D/HP? Nope, some creatures are built that way, with very low def but very high attack. Using attack as defense, bear type in general is like this, exception the polar bear. So to find someone willing to try and hit a bear, before it sends him to underworld is a bit tricky I'm not following you. Why exactly can't high level people attack low-level creatures? Different creatures have different minimum exp values. My A/D stats aren't very high, so I can only get the minimums for very weak creatures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RallosZek Report post Posted December 4, 2006 (edited) Nope, some creatures are built that way, with very low def but very high attack. Using attack as defense, bear type in general is like this, exception the polar bear. So to find someone willing to try and hit a bear, before it sends him to underworld is a bit tricky I'm not following you. Why exactly can't high level people attack low-level creatures? Different creatures have different minimum exp values. My A/D stats aren't very high, so I can only get the minimums for very weak creatures. Ah, like that, you want the minimum exp. Well, tried your file and they're wrong. At 22 rat, you get 14, not 11 att exp. And for imp, 5 for skunk 4 def. I don't think it's a real difference, btw, just a rounding difference, but we'll see. [Edit] Some exp figures, a/d 81/84, rat 22, no god: Imp: 5 def, 14 att Skunk: 4 def, 14 att Racoon: 4 def, 14 att Fox: 6 def, 14 att Large garg (no wings): 8 def, 14 att Feran: 9 def, 14 att Looks like only defense varies. [/Edit] Edited December 4, 2006 by RallosZek Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyReni Report post Posted December 4, 2006 Names - it's Large Spider, not Giant Spider. you're wrong this time. there is Large Spider in game as well as Giant Spider (which is summon only, just like sslessar) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gohan Report post Posted December 4, 2006 I kinda based myself on the fact of the Giant Spider summoning stone. But yes, you're right. It should actually be a Large Spider. -Blee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenRei Report post Posted December 4, 2006 Thanks, Rallos, that's exactly the sort of stuff that I need. I was basing my formulae for minimums on those described earlier in this thread, although I don't think that they knew definitively what the minimum formula is. I should have enough datapoints now to refine it further. Thanks! Also: I guess I still need both slessar *and* giant spider (I assume those are the "Mortos" spiders that we see sometimes) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gohan Report post Posted December 4, 2006 Ok, I edited my own file. I'll remind me brother to look out for that little site thingy too. And as I said before KarenRei, I know the Sslessar's a/d. But you'll have to wait untill either I upload my file or someone else tells you. -Blee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derin Report post Posted December 4, 2006 And as I said before KarenRei, I know the Sslessar's a/d. But you'll have to wait untill either I upload my file or someone else tells you. So why not share it? Seems very childish to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gohan Report post Posted December 4, 2006 To keep you all curious. And I'll share it, it'll be right there in my file once it gets updated. -Blee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigol Report post Posted December 4, 2006 I just want to thank you all for your work ^^ ..this thread has been very helpful Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenRei Report post Posted December 4, 2006 I've modified the formula for minimums using RallosZek's new datapoints. Seems we needed a rat/2 scalar instead of rat/3 for minimum attack, with a slightly smaller base offset. I'm actually very encouraged by the fact that the defense exp values came out the same. We just need to pin down the attack; hopefully the new formula will do it. Can we get some more data? Most valuable would be minimum datapoints for: * Beaver * All snakes * Leprechaun * Small spider * Wolf * All skeletons * All goblins * Short and tall gargoyles * Large spiders * Anything harder than a large spider with the exception of Ferans Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smalul Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Can we get some more data? Most valuable would be minimum datapoints for: * Beaver * All snakes * Leprechaun * Small spider * Wolf * All skeletons * All goblins * Short and tall gargoyles * Large spiders * Anything harder than a large spider with the exception of Ferans With a/d of 54/62 and rationality of 11, here is what I get for some of the creatures (a/d exp): Leprechaun - 8/6 White Rabbit - 8/3 Red Snake - 8/7 Wolf - 8/6 Fox - 8/6 Skeleton - 8/8 (I think it's the minimum values, not 100% sure) Male Goblin - 8/6 I hope this helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bregi Report post Posted December 5, 2006 if you still need minimum a/d exp for beaver, here's what I got at a/d 34/36 rationality 9: att 7 def 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenRei Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Updated. Thanks, both of you. Minimums still needed: Green snake Small spider Brown snake Short gargoyle Tall gargoyle Large spider Everything harder than a large spider except Feran. Everything still needed: Slessar Giant spider (not large spider) Misc: Any creatures with specials or unusual p/c apart from skunks & red snakes (poison), imps (lots of fire damage relative to a/d), fox, tiger and white tiger (high p/c relative to a/d), arctic chim (ignores MM), and unicorn (can't be attacked). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smalul Report post Posted December 5, 2006 (edited) if you still need minimum a/d exp for beaver, here's what I got at a/d 34/36 rationality 9: att 7 def 4 At 54/62 a/d and Rationality of 11, I get 8/4 a/d exp from beavers. If the rationality/3 is rounded down, like in the a/d equations, both of us should get the same exp (both 9/3 and 11/3 give 3). Maybe the rationality bonus is rounded normally in this case (so 11/3 gives a bonus of 4 while 9/3 gives a bonus of 3). Edited December 5, 2006 by smalul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenRei Report post Posted December 5, 2006 (edited) Smalul: My formula predicts exactly what you got I'm steadily becoming confident with this formula. But lets keep the datapoints coming! Just to update, the URLs are: http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/progs/el/el_ad.ods http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/progs/el/el_ad.xls And the formulae are: AttackEXP = FLOOR((MAX(TheirDefense * 2 - YourAttack + FLOOR(YourRationality / 3; 1); 3 + FLOOR(YourRationality / 2; 1))) * (1 + YourGodAttackBonus); 1) DefenseEXP = FLOOR(MAX(TheirAttack * 2 - YourDefense + FLOOR(YourRationality / 3; 1); TheirMinDefenseExp) * (1 + YourGodDefenseBonus); 1) That is to say: Minimum attack exp doesn't change with creatures, and is 3 plus your rationality divided by *2*. Minimum defense exp doesn't care about your rationality, but varies from creature to creature. I imagine that it's probably derived from the creatures stats, but I haven't figured out in what way yet. Edited December 5, 2006 by KarenRei Share this post Link to post Share on other sites