Wingalings Report post Posted June 8, 2006 Well, actually all the ppl in the mine were pretty buff. The miners, mechanics, managers, geologists (except me), explosives-guys... all of 'em. And yes, some of them were part time. Its more that it is necessary for ppl who work in a mine to be strong than that working in a mine makes them strong. But I am of the opinion that things in this game need not follow real life. Like Magic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m_bee Report post Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) Im not going to pronunciate about the topic, cause im not still sure what I think, just one thing: Silver Ore has current market of 2gc each. HE = 2 Silver Ore = 4gc. Sell for 7gc. Profit = 3gc. Qty sold is high (I've seen NUMEROUS ads for 1000s of HEs). That's easy money considering the flowers are so easy to pick. As you say in one of your posts, you are not an alchemist, but I have worked alch -my current character is not the bigger in alchemy that I had, I think-, but even the actual one is at 70+ alch, not too high, but I think that enough to know what alch is about. That statement about is plain wrong. Yes, flowers are harvestable, but feasts are not. Even with a fail rate of 1/300, like my average, selling HEs at 6 gc is to lose money. 1 feast is 11gc, and with it, you can make 6 HEs (yes, HEs take 8 food, not 9). So, you need to ad ALMOST 2 complete gc to each he. So, each HE -flowers out- costs 6gc. And you sell them for 6 gc? Nope, you sell it for 7gc, at least -or you are plainly losing your time. Even that way, you are spending a really high amount of time just for 1gc. But well.. that is another topic. I just wanted to point out that the gain for a he is not 3gc, wich is about a +75% or 4gc, but 1gc, wich is more like 18% of 6gc. I thought that even not totally on topic, it could have something to do with the issue, if not, jsut ignore this, but keep in mind that no lie was said here. EDIT: typos Edited June 8, 2006 by m_bee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghrae Report post Posted June 8, 2006 *shrugs* So there is ONE fixed factor: feasting pots. Most alchers harv their own silver ore anyway. So harv 1/2 half and buy 1/2. Hello profit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m_bee Report post Posted June 8, 2006 That is not the issue Ghrae, we could also make 50k fes to get 20 efes and make 20 tit longs, then sell them for 800gc each, and ssay that we got a proffit because we did not invest a single gc. That is to tweak things. Anyway, the fact that to do lupines is far better than anything when talking about money is not going to change on this thread. And, as I said, is another topic. It is far better to pick lupines and sell them for 20kgc, buy 10kgc silver, pick lupines for 2k feasts (22kgc) - Total: 62kgc, to make 10k hes, that you can sell for 70gc. You could do what you say, and spend a week harvesting silver, sure, but with lupines it would be far faster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghrae Report post Posted June 8, 2006 So you're suggesting that adding p/c for alchemists is not a good idea then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m_bee Report post Posted June 8, 2006 Im not going to pronunciate about the topic, cause im not still sure what I think, just one thing: ... I thought that even not totally on topic, it could have something to do with the issue, if not, jsut ignore this, but keep in mind that no lie was said here. No, I just thought I would correct that misscalculation, because it could be involved in the issue. As I said, I dont consider myself prepared to judge this issue. So, I will not give an opinion, in one side or another. Just was providing information thath could be relevant. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted June 8, 2006 Ghrae I wasn't talking about giving alchemists more p/c, and as I said I don't want to have 1k emu, I was talking about 100 EMU more ... I'm not a dev. I don't make decisions about such suggestions. So this is just my opinion. But perhaps you should be looking for more creative fixes to the balance you seek. Not just gimme more p/c. And even here, I'm just talking about giving p/c less advantages! This game has one big suggestion for newbies: Put ALL your pp in p/c and you will never do wrong... You don't see it right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trollson Report post Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) A couple of related issues to this thread: Physique and Coordination are disproportionately high in the EL population, compared to the other attributes. One reason for this is that they have a disproportionate effect in the game, which is bad for an RPG system, as it takes away choice (or rather, all options are not equal within what should be an equivalent set). Ideally, all attributes (1), across the population, should have equivalent worths, and have similar distributions. So, give players more reasons to spend their pick points on other attributes. The other reason why high P/C, and thus high EMU dominates the game is that the economy favors, even requires, bulk goods. With basic resources essentially free, the tendancy is to try to limit high level activities by requiring more and more materials. To perform successfully in the game you need to carry more and more, and there is a EMU-arms race. For example, the new Invisibility spell will require 30 essences; so even a pure-mage type will have to have a high P/C to compete, completely out of character with their classical stereotype. (1) - I include nexus as just another type of attribute, representing some sort of cultural exposure. If you expect attributes to have normal ranges 1-20, then expect the same for nexus; it remains "fair" if the same same options apply to everybody; it improves the game if more options are available to everybody. It is choice in character development which distinguishes class based and (good) class-less RPG systems. Edited June 8, 2006 by trollson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lorck Report post Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) For example, the new Invisibility spell will require 30 essences; so even a pure-mage type will have to have a high P/C to compete, completely out of character with their classical stereotype. Well, you cant really be a true wizard in this game, even if you get 150 of magic you will not be able to harm someone with magic 30 and mag imunity on. The few people who try to roleplay a wizard choose the healer path. I would like to roleplay a wizard and mana drain some chims for training but there are not really good reward for high levels in magic. Maybe with new spells the durations of the spells based and the magic level and the effect of other spells based on the magic level too... Edited June 8, 2006 by Lorck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sMooMs Report post Posted June 8, 2006 Every skill is free to do, noone tell u to not be a fighter, topic pointless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted June 8, 2006 Every skill is free to do, noone tell u to not be a fighter, topic pointless That's nonsense, every skill should be able to work on in an mmorpg and with same advantages as other skills. And this isn't the main discussion of this topic, it's about EMU and p/c stuff that is very unbalanced. So keep on topic and don't post such a 'not very well thought about it' reactions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vwpro Report post Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) 200 He ess 200 Ae ess 50 dead ess 50 Energy ess 50 Magic ess 20-25 sr's 20-30 boost potions 100-200 fruits armor/weapons 20 diss/tele rings my pk gear o yeh fighters need emu also for drops and some pick up bones Edited June 9, 2006 by vwpro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted June 9, 2006 So fighters need EMU, and they get it! Harvesters also need EMU, but they don't get it. That's the end of the discussion I guess... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalach Report post Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) So fighters need EMU, and they get it! Harvesters also need EMU, but they don't get it. That's the end of the discussion I guess... I guess I'm not sure what harvesters are putting their PP into, instead of P/C? EMU Distribution? Edited June 9, 2006 by Kalach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghrae Report post Posted June 9, 2006 So fighters need EMU, and they get it! Harvesters also need EMU, but they don't get it. That's the end of the discussion I guess... Harvesters? I thought you were talking about Alchemists? I fear this is the end of the discussion. And not because you and I see this issue differently. Actually, I like such discussion. I fear it is the end because I believe there are some fundamental flaws with a game in beta where things like pick points, attributes, nexus and even the skills are still in flux. If anything, a discussion, detailed and well thought out, of how to shift the current system in ways to make it completely balanced (not just alchers vs fighters) would be more beneficial. On top of that, if and when we could figure out a way to balance it, it would take some time for the developers to program that. AND it could mean a reset or worse. (One more time, I'm not a dev so I'm only making observations based on past experience, not knowledge of how they would do things). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted June 9, 2006 Alchemists are harvester too but yeah ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SL7yz0r Report post Posted June 12, 2006 So fighters need EMU, and they get it! Harvesters also need EMU, but they don't get it. That's the end of the discussion I guess... harvest nexuses- 5 fighting nexuses - 5 where are your pick points going? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vwpro Report post Posted June 12, 2006 hes probly a all arounder but thats his own choice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted June 12, 2006 So fighters need EMU, and they get it! Harvesters also need EMU, but they don't get it. That's the end of the discussion I guess... harvest nexuses- 5 fighting nexuses - 5 where are your pick points going? First play the game, then comment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
