Bleuren Report post Posted May 15, 2006 Is this ore worth the risk of dieing due to the heat? Is it worth it to get killed and get nothing? I say no, but if you take these 2 risks out but leave the s2e option in that would be a lot better and a lot more people would do it, right now as I hear it I wouldn't go and mine it because of the risks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagpieLee Report post Posted May 15, 2006 Is this ore worth the risk of dieing due to the heat? Is it worth it to get killed and get nothing? I say no, but if you take these 2 risks out but leave the s2e option in that would be a lot better and a lot more people would do it, right now as I hear it I wouldn't go and mine it because of the risks Thats a tiny bit too late unless Ent changes the map from a pk to a non pk, and tone the heat damage down. And FYI, the cave the actual ore itself is Not hot and Not pk - although the way to reach it can be dangerous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torg Report post Posted May 15, 2006 a lot more people would do it That is the whole point!! It not *meant* to be common or popular. The idea is to make it so hard that this stuff stays rare for longer than a week or two like most other items. It is designed so the armour and weapons made from this are still rare in a years time. Using both methods of making it increadibly difficult to obtain, and extremely expensive will hopefully keep it that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bleuren Report post Posted May 15, 2006 Is this ore worth the risk of dieing due to the heat? Is it worth it to get killed and get nothing? I say no, but if you take these 2 risks out but leave the s2e option in that would be a lot better and a lot more people would do it, right now as I hear it I wouldn't go and mine it because of the risks Thats a tiny bit too late unless Ent changes the map from a pk to a non pk, and tone the heat damage down. And FYI, the cave the actual ore itself is Not hot and Not pk - although the way to reach it can be dangerous. So the only way to get to it is risking to get pked? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ttlanhil Report post Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) A good fantasy or science fiction setting needs internal consistency, especial in the "living" environment of an RPG.actually, it's a lot bigger than that. any fiction at all, and a fair chunk of non-fiction, stretches the beleif. you know or beleive it to be not true.enter: suspension of disbeleif (there are people who make careers out of studying this stuff) basically, the audience (in this context, it's the players, but I'm trying to be generic to prove a point) is willing to accept it as part of the other reality. now, given this willingness, you can do almost anything with a strong enough story... but anything that the audience doesn't already "know" (eg: a medieval game has magic, and we like it and accept it) needs to be explained. usually, if you find yourself needing to explain something, it's worth stopping to ask if you need to be different. sometimes it'll be yes, it's worth it. sometimes it'll be no, it's not worth the story and stretch of beleif but you need to justify it, or the inconsistencies are jarring. you no longer have immersion in the game. and that's one of the differences between a game you play for 20min and one you play for 8 hours... how easy it is to get sucked in and be in the world. EL has many things that jar the feel of the gameworld. could they be explained? yes, and to some degree many of them are. but it's a tack-on after, and it shows. the storyline isn't that strong IMO. does it need to be? not really, for a MMO, the interesting part is what the players make. plus how many players know all the story? not that many we can do without having a lot of storyline, but we can't do with it being ignored and passed over when it's needed this is one of the big issues I've had here, the storyline not being taken seriously enough Edited May 15, 2006 by ttlanhil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torg Report post Posted May 15, 2006 If you want to make expensive items with the ore, you can always change the amount that is used to make the items. Having such a high base cost is unreasonable if it already requires a high level. How is there any high level required? Look at Titanium or any of the "high level" harvestables around at the moment. There are heaps of newbies harvesting them. I know cos I was one of them. Take a neg perk to get the nexus, and sit and wait a while (which if you are afk coding the client or a bot like I was is no big deal). Admittedly, it would be difficult for a newbie to both get in and out of the PK area, but if they hire protection... surely the ore get you enough money to pay for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alderan Report post Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) um... maybe you don't use pickaxe. Instead you use sword because pickaxe is too weak to get the ore, and you need a sword to cut it out. There, you got your reason fo the s2e. Edited May 16, 2006 by Alderan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted May 16, 2006 No, I think we all saw that, its just a pretty weak excuse. A good fantasy or science fiction setting needs internal consistency, especial in the "living" environment of an RPG. Sorry, but the if there is a problem with too many swords, then fix the combat system so that they get used, rather than attaching them to a completely unrelated activity. Do you think I have nothing better to do than make a story for every fucking action in the game? If you want stories, go read a book or something! If you can not play a game which doesn't have a plausible story behind every action, then don't play EL! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bleuren Report post Posted May 16, 2006 No, I think we all saw that, its just a pretty weak excuse. A good fantasy or science fiction setting needs internal consistency, especial in the "living" environment of an RPG. Sorry, but the if there is a problem with too many swords, then fix the combat system so that they get used, rather than attaching them to a completely unrelated activity. Do you think I have nothing better to do than make a story for every fucking action in the game? If you want stories, go read a book or something! If you can not play a game which doesn't have a plausible story behind every action, then don't play EL! Word ent word Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted May 16, 2006 um... maybe you don't use pickaxe. Instead you use sword because pickaxe is too weak to get the ore, and you need a sword to cut it out. There, you got your reason fo the s2e. For the life of me I don't see that needing a sword instead of a pickaxe is so odd that there is all this moaning over how it needs justification for the rp/storyline aspect and ruins the game. Now if we needed flowers, or rabbit furs, or shields, or a breastplate, I might see it being sorta strange and needing explanation. But a sword??? Seems reasonable to me that you had the sword on you anyway to fight your way through the pk map to get to the ore and use that as a tool to get the ore. It is a tool of sorts, held in your hand as a pickaxe would be... I like the idea as a whole, finally (hopefully) a way to make something hard to get ingredients for, hard to make, hard to own. Challenging every step of the way. And you all know I'm no pker. I like this, I look forward to the challenges it presents. I'm very tired of the very best items ingame owned and worn by people no more than a week old ingame. Nothing is *special* anymore. I imagine at first it will be as described, all the pkers camped out nailing everyone who tries to get through, just because they are bored atm and it will be a new place with new people and new targets But I bet it won't last long because they'll realize they need and want the ingredients and final result as much as the rest of us do, and everybody will have to work together. I do think Vanyel's idea has merit as well, to make more than one location for this ore. Give the pker's a bit of a challenge as well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ornitorrinco Report post Posted May 16, 2006 No, I think we all saw that, its just a pretty weak excuse. A good fantasy or science fiction setting needs internal consistency, especial in the "living" environment of an RPG. Sorry, but the if there is a problem with too many swords, then fix the combat system so that they get used, rather than attaching them to a completely unrelated activity. Do you think I have nothing better to do than make a story for every fucking action in the game? If you want stories, go read a book or something! If you can not play a game which doesn't have a plausible story behind every action, then don't play EL! Do you really need to reply like that? You have no respect for your players. Remember, a MMO is nothing without players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Do you really need to reply like that? You have no respect for your players. Remember, a MMO is nothing without players. Then I politely and humbly suggest you to get the fuck out of here find some other game to play. What did you contribute with to this game to even believe you have the right to talk? Do you think your mere presence here changes anything? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ornitorrinco Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Do you think your mere presence here changes anything? Yes, my presence and every other player's presence change everything. What is a game without players? If you read the entire thread, you'll see there are no disrespectful posts beside yours. I do like your work, but your attitude could improve a lot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bleuren Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Do you really need to reply like that? You have no respect for your players. Remember, a MMO is nothing without players. Then I politely and humbly suggest you to get the fuck out of here! What did you contribute with to this game to even believe you have the right to talk? Do you think your mere presence here changes anything? Ok, he made the game he can do whatever he wants if he wants to make some plan for the hydroenim... or something like that then let him he is trying to make the game more fun by putting a challange in it. And ornitoorrinco is sticking up for magoo back there thinking your big and bad telling ent off, ent is a very nice person and I think we should all give him more respect than we are now he does something nice for us the least we can do is not shove it back in his face we should be happy. Ent great job on the ore very creative Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Yes, my presence and every other player's presence change everything. What is a game without players? If you read the entire thread, you'll see there are no disrespectful posts beside yours. I do like your work, but your attitude could improve a lot You are not the players, you are just a small pice in a puzzle. The MMOs are designed in such a way to be impervious to the departure of quite a few players. This has been reflected throughout the history of the genre. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bleuren Report post Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) Can't we all just get along? Edited May 16, 2006 by Bleuren Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ornitorrinco Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Yes, my presence and every other player's presence change everything. What is a game without players? If you read the entire thread, you'll see there are no disrespectful posts beside yours. I do like your work, but your attitude could improve a lot You are not the players, you are just a small pice in a puzzle. The MMOs are designed in such a way to be impervious to the departure of quite a few players. This has been reflected throughout the history of the genre. That's why I said mine and every other player's presence. You can do whatever you want with the hydrogenium, it's pretty obvious that if you only do what your players aprove, the game will never go forward. The point is, instead of saying "fuck this, fuck that, if you don't like it, don't play it", you could simply say that your plan is to address the s2e issue and that some story may be added in the future. I bet some people would be glad to think of something for you like a quest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Mind Report post Posted May 16, 2006 The thing that concerned me most was the cost of making anything with hydrogenium. I can see a need for expensive items this way, but it does not make sense to me to have something be expensive by using an expensive item on the base ingredient of the product. However, this is just a clash between creativity and logical thinking. I obviously have more of the latter, and will I rarely have the insight required to understand anything creative. For that reason, I'm not opposed to seeing what happens with this idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted May 16, 2006 I have determined that making a background story on why harvesting some ores require some items is not going to have a noticeable positive impact on the game, which is why no such story is being planned. If someone wants to come up with a story for that, fine. If not, not a big deal. The thing that concerned me most was the cost of making anything with hydrogenium. I can see a need for expensive items this way, but it does not make sense to me to have something be expensive by using an expensive item on the base ingredient of the product. However, this is just a clash between creativity and logical thinking. I obviously have more of the latter, and will I rarely have the insight required to understand anything creative. For that reason, I'm not opposed to seeing what happens with this idea. The cost will be resonably high, but not that high. The hydrogenium will not be the primary ingredient in the new armors, but the cost of a bar will be more than the sum of it's ingredients, due to the effort and danger of manufacturing such a bar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mauriciom Report post Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) Ppl i think Entropy took the desicion so try to plan what to do to make the things... some things ---> If u dont want to spend that much get lils and then buy the armor ---> Pker wont go ALL the time to c2 to pk ppl for steel long swords... Maybe 1 or 2 will go each day... but NOONE will camp there like they do in kf... ---> Bring new EXPENSIVE things to the economy will be great... now the only thing more than 10k is a magic sword. ---> Making new things is allway nice... ---> Been in a guild and work for a proyect is allways fun...If u dont like it go to a no working team guild or #leave ---> Tks Entropy this is great... Edited May 16, 2006 by mauriciom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thordin Report post Posted May 16, 2006 How about this one? The hydrogenium ore is highly volatile and bashing it with pickaxe could result in destabilizing and degradation of ore, which would become useless. Instead, using sword, slowly cutting (which will dull and degrade weapon for good) is required to get the ore pure and undamaged for the further use, The steel two edged sword has been discovered as a ideal tool for this. Titanium could be used as well, but since they are light, you would lack required coordination and slow temp of work. So the steel two edged sword has been established as the most suitable tool to harvest hydrogenium ore. This was discovered by cooperation of dwarven miners and gnomish chemists and engineers by months of failures, broken pickaxes and useless ore harvested without proper fashion. If you have any doubts, just ask your local dwarven miner or gnome engineer, but I don't think, that they will reveal the secret art of their work willingly This is just a fast one, if someone wants to work this deeper, feel free to do it, no copyright on this one (although thought up by myself only) Just a opinion from a dwarven blacksmith as I am Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest King Arthur Report post Posted May 16, 2006 um... maybe you don't use pickaxe. Instead you use sword because pickaxe is too weak to get the ore, and you need a sword to cut it out. There, you got your reason fo the s2e. Isn't a pickaxe made out of steel? or is it iron? Perhaps you could require a steel or titanium axe to mine hydrogenium? Plus Entropy could use some PR training. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SharkBite Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Yawn.. I think i will just wait 6 months... and buy the ore cheap when all the whoopy doo factor has gone out of it.. Im sure by then the pkers will be complaining that there is nobody at the mine cause they all buy the bars for 500gc each.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dns_server Report post Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) Personally the idea of useing a sword to harvest is straneg but perhaps adding a new item of a stronger specialised pickaxe might be a more role playing way to go. how about something like: Hydrogenium Pickaxe Items needed: 4 iron bars 10 Steel Bars 2 dimonds (maybe polished or unpolished) 8 Fire Essences Items required to have: Hammer Knowledge needed: hydrogenium Pickaxe construction Required Nexuses: Artificial: 4 Recommended Skills: Manufacture: 30 Experience given: Manufacture exp: 140 Food substracted: 15 Edited May 16, 2006 by dns_server Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GarfieldClowntje Report post Posted May 16, 2006 And have those pickaxes break at A FAR HIGHER rate than the normal pick-axes So the ore will still be rare Cause that's something to aim for Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
