Crafter's Strike

[Mr.Mind]

@Ladywolf

 

I am not playing a petty game. I am playing a profitable one. The only thing this strike will do is bring me more business. There is a very simple solution to this price problem that doesn't involve any new game coding, but I'll let you all try and figure that out for yourselves.

[Soldus]

This stike is going to fail: MrMind sells diss/damage rings at 70 gc, telleport rings at 65, and medallions at 150. Those are the cheapest prices in the game. He is well advertised, and Everyone will just go to him.

 

No. I always pay 80 gold for my teleport rings, and will continue to do so.

 

My usual vendors can rely on my business as i can rely on them.

[Lorck]

I dont read the whole thread because its very long. But i did read some things.

MrMind are trying to make profits at nonprofit rates? It seams he is really trying to ruin the market.

And the food issue: It will make impossible to new people acquire the levels? Now pvp training is the main way to get pickpoints. If the trading skills are hurt so badly this way it will make impossible to gain _any_ overall experience without fighting?

[Entropy]

And the food issue: It will make impossible to new people acquire the levels? Now pvp training is the main way to get pickpoints. If the trading skills are hurt so badly this way it will make impossible to gain _any_ overall experience without fighting?

202990[/snapback]

 

Yet another person suffering from selective reading..

[Lorck]

Yet another person suffering from selective reading..

203003[/snapback]

Sorry for that, but now i have read all the thread.

If the food metod solves the economy issue and dont affect the exp you get i am all for it.

[Dunian]

Well, on one hand the food idea will certainly be a pain for alchemists, but on the other it will make the Potion of Feasting alot more useful. If it will help the econamy too... then why not?

 

Dunian :battleaxe:

 

Edit:

Wouldn't it be better to have high cooldown values on tools like hammers? The rings could be changed to require some sort of jewelry hammer to be in the inventory. So each item category could be adjusted by itself and wouldn't have any side effects on others.

How about the molds?

Edited September 30, 2005 by Dunian

[Dent]

I have always accepted that I would face a monetary loss in manu or crafting. Just as I lose in summoning.

 

To offset this, I harvest, alch and sell stuff to Trik.

 

I may not be rich, but I always have enough money to level up the skills I want. The biggest problem for me is finding the time to use up or sell of all of the extra crap in my inventory.

 

If you are here just to make money, then harvest stuff and sell it. If you are here to train up levels, you will find a way to do it. If you are here for fun, community and to actually play the game, I don't see how any of this really matters.

 

The economy isn't about everyone making a huge profit. It CANT be. There are loads of ways to make money in the game to support yourself and have fun. It is not as though you will die homeless and hungry in the game if you can't sell your rings or armor for a price you think is fair.

 

A little bit of effort on your part can go a long way, without requiring a redesign of the game just to support your characters.

[Arnieman]

How about the molds?

203008[/snapback]

They are tools too.

[molime]

If you are here just to make money, then harvest stuff and sell it.  If you are here to train up levels, you will find a way to do it.  If you are here for fun, community and to actually play the game, I don't see how any of this really matters.

203014[/snapback]

 

I do, another point of view there probably. Although I'm not a real roleplayer, I see crafting as my 'profession'. It's not my highest skill, cause others are just much easier to level - especially if you make the bars you need yourself, but it's my highest skill relatively speaking, compared to others.

 

Since my 'profession' in game is (or was) crafter, your *profession* should be what you earn your living with. And of course you still make a profit when you make your own bars and essences and all, but for a profession that would be very strange - you would earn more by selling the ingredients.

 

So it's from a roleplaying kind of view more really.

[Lorck]

About tools getting hot:

You will be able to change the tool? If you are, there should be a mechanism where it cant be abused. Like making pants with a needle and change for another when it is too hot.

_____________

Alchemy does not need any tool (but it would be cool if there are a alchemy lab or the like) and potions needs mortar and pistil (its hard to imagine how it can get hot). How to stop mass production with that skills?

Maybe the restriction on food posted before.

[Nikor]

Alchemy does not need any tool (but it would be cool if there are a alchemy lab or the like) and potions needs mortar and pistil (its hard to imagine how it can get hot). How to stop mass production with that skills?

Maybe the restriction on food posted before.

203045[/snapback]

Mortar & pestle is a tool. And I think alch doesn't need to be slowed down. Most Ess and bar prices seem pretty stable to me. Think about the HE, there is no need to stop mass production there because they are used in masses. Sometimes when people try to buy HE and SR on market, they try for like hours, and don't get any. No problem there.

[dns_server]

what prices do you think is fair for crafted items?

what are your demands for this strike?

what do you want to achieve as a result of this action?

 

if you are going to strike do it properly, first look around and see what is wrong, clearly think out what you want to improve. think about what the main problems are with crafting as a skill and how would you do it if you had your way.

 

Anyone can say '"i am on strike" but that will likely do nothing, but if you provide some resons and suggestions you may get something. The developers try to listen to suggestions there is the suggestions section of the forum where you could make suggesions.

[Anghrist]

Actually, I found a very good way to solve this problem, but you guys will bitch a lot. Nevertheless, I will still do it, just for the sake of hearing you bitching

 

So here is my solution (until the new manufacturing system comes up, which is months away).

High cooldown values for food. That means, it will take like minutes before being able to eat again. No food, no manufacturing, no harvesting.

The exp for harvesting and manufacturing will, however, be increased 2 or 3 times, so people will manufacture less but get the same exp.

 

Is this ok with you?

202880[/snapback]

 

This is one of those times where I feel like I'm missing out on something that's blazingly obvious to everyone else... If I'm making iron bars, and I've got a stock of cooked meat, then would the flow look like this:

- Make 5 iron bars (bringing food from +45 to -10)

- Eat one cooked meat (brining food back to +15)

- Make 2 more iron bars (food back down to -7)

- Wait a couple minutes, or go do something else, until my cooked meat "cools down" before making iron bars again.

 

Is this right?

 

If so, I'd probably stop making stuff, in which case EL would just become a fighting game, which would pretty much kill my interest altogether. Seems like any "cooldown" scheme would break up the process of making, such that you could no longer make it a "project." You'd have to do it catch-as-catch-can; as a player, playing a game, I'd either have to break up the natural flow of gameplay to make a few items, or ignore this aspect of the game completely.

 

I'd be ok with stuff like longer times and/or more food required to make items, or even higher chances of failure. And I'd love to see some sort of "capital" in the game, where you need to be near a forge to work metal, or in a lab full of books and glassware to make essences. I'm not even concerned with the whole experience thing - if it takes longer to get the same xp, so be it. But chopping up the flow of something that used to run smoothly just seems anti-game.

 

Oh, yeah, one final rant If you do this cooldown thing with food, don't call it "cooldown" - call it "you just ate!" or something instead. Your food stock isn't suddenly getting red-hot when you eat, is it?

 

If I don't have the cooldown scheme right, ignore all that, and feel free to berate me for not seeing the bleeding obvious (whatever that may be)

[Ghrae]

For those of you who don't like Entropy's suggestion... and who believe a strike will solve everything:

 

A strike does what? Temporarily limits production? No. It limits the producers selling. There's still production b/c the producers don't want to give up their precious experience. So they make others suffer by not selling for a while, stock pilining in the mean time, and then raising the prices as demand gets excessive.

 

Here's an idea: instead of price manipulation (making others suffer) if you believe in your cause so much, then why don't you just not make as many. Let your supply dictate demand instead of dictating demand while you have huge supplies?

[Soldus]

Umm...who says it's either one or the other? there are many solutions out there. -_-

[yellow_man]

Hi everyone!

 

As a crafter, i've suffered from low prices too.

 

As far as the strike is concerned, i'm not sure it's going to help (i haven't seen tit shorts go up after the manu strike... that was the reason i almost stopped doing any manu, i just make the items i need for personal use)

 

Nevertheless, i'm not going to sell any crafting goods for a while, i don't want to take advantage of the strike.

 

Now, regarding the issue of how to control mass production.

 

I think Entropy's idea is a bit complicated. It's going to affect far more things than it's going to solve. People would either get bored and quit doing crafting, manu etc, or those who are really patient and/or have plenty of time to play will continue doing mass production.

 

I believe that people do mass production mainly in order to level up and not solely for profit. So, wouldn't a time limit in exp points (like the one we have for harvesting) be another solution to the problem?

 

Thanks.

[Dent]

I do, another point of view there probably. Although I'm not a real roleplayer, I see crafting as my 'profession'. It's not my highest skill, cause others are just much easier to level - especially if you make the bars you need yourself, but it's my highest skill relatively speaking, compared to others.

 

Since my 'profession' in game is (or was) crafter, your *profession* should be what you earn your living with. And of course you still make a profit when you make your own bars and essences and all, but for a profession that would be very strange - you would earn more by selling the ingredients.

 

So it's from a roleplaying kind of view more really.

203028[/snapback]

 

I can understand this. Unfortunately, as a profession, it is not viable. Enough other people have chosen it as a profession that you can not longer earn your living. That is a function of a working economy, not a broken one.

 

Many others have said that they have found a new speciality. Either you can follow their lead and play some other aspect of the game or you can gamble that enough people stop crafting that you may be able to make a profit.

[molime]

I'm mostly playing another aspect of the game now . Since I'm pretty much allround I'm making a profit out of fighting now. Monsters keep spawning and dropping their gcs and drops...

 

And in meantime I'm just hoping for new high-level crafting items to come in game at one time, so having a high crafting level pays off again

[NitageR]

Lets back to times when moon med costed 1k gc , :lol:?

[Daejin]

Good idea, even though i dont really play much, i remember suggesting such an idea awhile ago.

 

I support the strike, why not? It will give everyone something else to do in the game.

[Guest InsanePerson]

I agree that lowering the number of items in the market is a good idea. However, rather then making a food or item cooldown, is there some reason why the items can't take longer to make, and give more xp (ie, id it takes 1 second to make and gives 10xp, it might take 10 seconds and give 100xp). This would probably solve the problem of too much supply, and I don't think it would change much else. Would this be a possible solution?

[bkc56]

However, rather then making a food or item cooldown, is there some reason why the items can't take longer to make, and give more xp (ie, id it takes 1 second to make and gives 10xp, it might take 10 seconds and give 100xp). This would probably solve the problem of too much supply, and I don't think it would change much else.

203250[/snapback]

I agree. This seems like an easier, more natural solution that doesn't require adding new stuff and new user-interface aspects to the game. I would suspect it's a simple server-side change to some attribute tables.

 

And a change as simple as 2x, or 5x (I think 10x may be a bit much) on time and experience would be a good first cut thing to try. If that drops the supply to much then lower the time/experience a little.

 

Personally, I think you should get experience points for failed attempts too (you learn as much or more from your faiilures as you do from your successes), but perhaps that's a subject for a different thread.

[lpm]

What if you could destroy ring/stuff for XP?

Example: you make an ip ring for 75 xp points, once you succeed you open your manu box put the ring, get 75 or 75/2 xp points and the ring is lost...

I mean, the surplus cant be just for the fun of make rings, due that the price its too low its hard to believe it came for profit... so it must come from lvling.

YES, it will help ppl to gain lvls with less work, but it might take out of the ecuation lots of stuff off the market...

[Ulrih]

Hehe ppl, each crafter might pay some money for the let's say "crafters union" and then you could buy ALL the rings from bots for low prices, and sell them with profit.

[DrMabuse]

...

what prices do you think is fair for crafted items?

what are your demands for this strike?

what do you want to achieve as a result of this action?

...

 

I wrote it before...

 

Attention is one goal of the strike.

Second goal is to inform about a serious economic unfairness.

 

...

first look around and see what is wrong, clearly think out what you want to improve

...

 

The prices are wrong. The last time i played votd rings, for example, costs 90gc. Then i was busy for 1 or 2 month with non-el-related things. Votd rings are sold for 65gc now.

 

The main thing (in my opinion) is that some players are mass-selling to bots, i.e. 1-5k rings or so.

Now the bot want/must sell them, thats why (in my opinion) the prices are so low.

 

Solution: Bots must have a buy limit per day or if a bot is "full" with, for example, 100 votd rings,it don't by another load of Votd rings. But this is/could be a bot rule and has nothing to do with game/client/server development.

Edited October 1, 2005 by DrMabuse