The_Pale_Elf Report post Posted February 10, 2005 i voted yes caz is better and more realistic it is a game - it *must not* be realistic. 1 iron bar = 7 iron ore, 3 coal, 2 fire essences when will i have collected the 7 iron ore for the bar? in 1 hour? in 2 hours? in one day? it takes 7-8 seconds to make one iron bar. with ore spawns, when will i have collected enough ore for 100 iron bars? one week? also think about this: many players take their stuff with them for bars (i.e. coal + fire essences) and they make their bars (or health essences with siler ore, ...) AT the ore, they make a bag with the stuff and they are sitting ON the bag. Okay, I see people having issues with two things: How long will it take me to get enough ore to make bars? and How much will spawn at a time? 1. The requirements would be lessened for making bars. Since you can't just click harvest, walk away, and come back to 200 silver ore, you'll have to search for the ore, it only makes sense to drop the requirements for making things. 2. There shouldn't be piles of 1-2 at a spawn point. More like 10-50, depending on the ore type and how often it respawns. Whether or not the spawned ore will 'decay' like bags is also not decided yet. Maybe this will help allay some fears... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Specter Report post Posted February 10, 2005 (edited) Perhaps you could leave like 1 or 2 static viens of each but they would out put slower and not be as rich for example if you harvested sulphur from a spawn vien you would have a higher chance to make an enhanced fire essence with that sulphur and you could harvest it faster than the static vien. This would encourage people not to camp in one spot. I dont know if im making since or not. Edited February 10, 2005 by Specter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roja Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Perhaps you could leave like 1 or 2 static viens of each but they would out put slower and not be as rich for example if you harvested sulphur from a spawn vien you would have a higher chance to make an enhanced fire essence with that sulphur and you could harvest it faster than the static vien. This would encourage people not to camp in one spot. I dont know if im making since or not. actually I think that would encourage them to camp in one spot even more so: they just sit there character at the static vein and go afk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Specter Report post Posted February 10, 2005 (edited) really I thought a better chance of getting an enchanced what ever would encourage them not to. or perhaps you could make it so that if you dont harvest from a spawned vien you have no chance of getting a enchanced what ever. But even with out than I'm all for vien spawning I never go akf while mineing unless im going to grab a snack or use the head. Edited February 10, 2005 by Specter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starman_Omega Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Hm.... Ore Spawns=Quartz spawns too the Great Quartz=Random locations for all Random locations=No more matter essences No matter essences= taking out the support beams of the great house called The Magic Skill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghrae Report post Posted February 10, 2005 I voted no. Unless a lot of things are reworked to match this idea, I see it making alchemy, manu, magic, summoning, crafting and potions much harder. I know that initially this seems like it might help the economy. But think also of the levels. It will slow down people leveling in these categories. And that leaves fighting untouched. I've said it before but I think there is a imbalance between fighting and the other skills and I don't see this concept balancing them out. If there was a way to create more balance though, I would be for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrMabuse Report post Posted February 10, 2005 (edited) - what's with harvesting experience? - what's with the emu of iron, silver, gold ore? - what's with players who want to join a guild (harvest is the easiest way to get a skill over 20) are "more exploring" and "less boring" the only reasons for ore spawns? please tell exactly how "running-after-ore-bags" will be, here is a scenario: make 10 iron swords = 100 iron bars = 700 iron ore with emu 4, 300 coal with emu 2, 200 fe with emu 1 = 10 steel bars = 80 iron ore, 50 coal, 30 fe A UN*X sysadmin: never, NEVER change a running system. ...the upgrade arrives and the sorrow begins. Edited February 10, 2005 by DrMabuse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin Report post Posted February 10, 2005 I also voted no. But instead of this poll you could do an experiment: Take sulphur for example, make it spawn at random in CC and keep the mm caves as they are. You'll see that after 2-3 days, once the novelty wores off, MM caves will be overcrowded and in CC no1 will harvest sulphur. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tropicano Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Im not really a harvester, but some variaty to the game wouldnt hurt, so i voted yes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gen_Axis Report post Posted February 10, 2005 OMG, no !!!! Harvesting is already hard, with this terrible boring long delays and stupid randoms, now we will have to looking for it yet ?! cmon, its waste of time already to harvest anything, for ex. harvesting sapphires for 30min (untill full load) looks like sitting and watching screen for 'you stop harvesting' message to click it again. THERE WILL BE NOTHING INTERESTING IN WALKING THROUGH WHOLE CAVE TO FIND ORE, it will be just more clicking. You really forcing ppl to do macro.... each update, some ppl (i wont use names) are improving their clients for that, im considering to pay them for one now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Harvesting is hard?! Whats difficult about: Click. Wait. Walk.Click. Wait. Walk? I think this is an outstanding idea. As long as the spawns are limited per cave/map, it would not only make harvesting a bit more adventurous, but it would definately help the economy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lachesis Report post Posted February 10, 2005 I consider this a great idea, since harvesting is too boring right now :-) But also, I think that the spawns should be special in the way that they run out slowly instead of instantly. You usually don't harvest a whole vein in one turn Thus a two-digit value of units per vein would be nice. In addition, harvesting delays could be reduced as the searching for veins would serve that purpose. That way you would not need to adjust the ingredients for manufacturing/alchemy a.s.o. and reduce the cause of boredom even more. Thank you for that idea Roja :-) With regards / Lachesis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gen_Axis Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Well. Placid, by 'Hard' i meant extremly booooring, extremly loooong, and max. screwed up atm. I just didnt realize that it can be even WORSE. Maybe you find it good idea, but instead fun, that will be more frustrating if you will walking around trying to find ore, and when you find it, it will be just depleted cuz someone was first... and it will be same loooooong to harvest as now, just ppl will have clicking more. Well Placid, as you said 'Whats difficult about: Click. Wait. Walk.Click. Wait. Walk?' Dont you see how stupid it looks like. Whats funny or adventureous in : Click. Wait. Walk.Click. Wait. Walk ? Now you can chat while harvesting (wee, i good thing remains) and you wouldnt when you have walking around :/ Well, these posts are for nothing... some ppl like Tropicano, that arent harvesters are voting yes only cuz they dont care... why not you make something harder for fighters ?! like 5 sec delays between you can hit someone, or randoms like 'you failed to hit enemy and you hurt yourself' or limit 120 hits per hour and then no exp or another insane ideas !? its seems every production sux now, and fighting is HOLY, noone touched it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Well. Placid, by 'Hard' i meant extremly booooring, extremly loooong, and max. screwed up atm. I just didnt realize that it can be even WORSE. Maybe you find it good idea, but instead fun, that will be more frustrating if you will walking around trying to find ore, and when you find it, it will be just depleted cuz someone was first... and it will be same loooooong to harvest as now, just ppl will have clicking more. Well Placid, as you said 'Whats difficult about: Click. Wait. Walk.Click. Wait. Walk?' Dont you see how stupid it looks like. Whats funny or adventureous in : Click. Wait. Walk.Click. Wait. Walk ? Now you can chat while harvesting (wee, i good thing remains) and you wouldnt when you have walking around :/ Well, these posts are for nothing... some ppl like Tropicano, that arent harvesters are voting yes only cuz they dont care... why not you make something harder for fighters ?! like 5 sec delays between you can hit someone, or randoms like 'you failed to hit enemy and you hurt yourself' or limit 120 hits per hour and then no exp or another insane ideas !? its seems every production sux now, and fighting is HOLY, noone touched it... :lol: I didnt say the harvesting system (at the moment) is adventurous. I was saying that if this is implemented it would be adventurous. I totaly agree, Click. Wait. Walk is really boring, thats the whole point of this change! I harvest regularly (Mage and Alchemist) so I know what you mean... Think about it: instead of it being the same old map-walk, click. Map-walk storage, you'd have to think about the harvesting and be a little more intelligent about your harvesting. As for your fighting suggestions, failure to hit and hurt yourself sounds good. Perhaps make a suggestion thread for it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gen_Axis Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Oh cmon, you trying to turn my attention :> Oki, another reason: Someone is going to mine, looking for ore, and when he find it, he start harvesting... then 2nd person coming and started it too, I BET the first one will start complaining and being rude to 2nd for harvesting HIS ore... or something worse... flaming etc. and that will ruin 'harvesters community' cuz they will become hostile to each others... What next ? make all mines pkable ? good move, cuz ppl will be enough hostile to kill each others for 10 iron ore :/ PS. Well, Placid, i was trying... but thanks for understanding me anyway... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Oh cmon, you trying to turn my attention :> Oki, another reason: Someone is going to mine, looking for ore, and when he find it, he start harvesting... then 2nd person coming and started it too, I BET the first one will start complaining and being rude to 2nd for harvesting HIS ore... or something worse... flaming etc. and that will ruin 'harvesters community' cuz they will become hostile to each others... What next ? make all mines pkable ? good move, cuz ppl will be enough hostile to kill each others for 10 iron ore :/ PS. Well, Placid, i was trying... but thanks for understanding me anyway... You've made some valid points, some of which I quite agree. If the harvesting cap (or 'ore depletion') is such that it is only on a per-player basis, then it wouldnt matter if you found the spawn, once your over your harvest amount, there's little you can do anyway. BTW, your entitled to your opinion and vote, i'm just explaining why I voted yes. Dont get me wrong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enlia Report post Posted February 10, 2005 It's an interesting idea, but I can see some flaws with it, some of which have already been mentioned. Personally I don't think the problems is with the actual harvesting so much, but more with the manufacturing etc. afterwards. If the intent is to head towards a more realistic environment, then we need to look at how manufacturing/crafting/alchemy also work. At the moment, as far as I can tell, most people either harvest lots of the raw materials that they need & store them, then sit at Raven to make their items; or they take materials with them to the ore point & work from a bag there. If the ore starts having a limited shelf-life & spawns die, then more people will turn to the first method & storage areas will become even more crowded than now, or more specifically, Raven will become even more crowded than now. To counterbalance this would it be possible to put specific manufacturing areas into the game, where you access the raw materials specific to that skill. For example, a blacksmiths where, maybe for a gc fee, you can access your stock of ores, coal & fire essences to make bars. Or a weaponsmiths where you can access the relevant items for smithing weapons? This would reduce the crowds at Raven, give the manufacturer's places to gather & talk, and if a gc fee is introduced another way of balancing the economy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Piper Report post Posted February 10, 2005 I voted yes, because i think, its a good idea. So give it a try and complain later Piper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alox Report post Posted February 10, 2005 (edited) I voted no, because with the random events, the harvesting limit and the delays in alchemy and manu, making things would get even more diffcult. Since reading the thread, I have changed my mind somewhat. Perhaps if the spawning would allow the randoms to be lessened and the harvesting cap to be loosened and maybe it takes less to make things, then it would all balance out. It would still raise prices a bit, which is a good thing, and also make harvesting more of a profession in itself rather than it just being what alchemists do to get ingredients. [edit] It would be cool to be able to change the vote after you originally vote as long as the poll is still open, can anyone make this mod? Edited February 10, 2005 by Alox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gen_Axis Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Whats the point about complaining after update ? Toons of ppl were complaining about last one change, and noone cares:/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soldus Report post Posted February 10, 2005 i voted yes...after a long while thinking about it. but i want to test it on the testserver first also, as already suggested. i just don't know if that isn't too much work to develop and then possibly never implement it... this is one of the ideas that should be thoroughly tested before implementing. and only people who actually TESTED it should be heard when the decision is being made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MoonShadow Report post Posted February 10, 2005 I like the idea. This way exploring gets more important and hopefully the players will also trade more since they can't get all the materials as easy as now. That's why it will probably fix the economy because mass production like we know it now won't be possible anymore. Could also be a solution for newbies - they could finally pick flowers and sell them to players. Yay. But of course this change would require more exp per harvest and/or some other adjustments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DragonSlayer Report post Posted February 10, 2005 I am not sure but, being all day chasing after ores just to collect 2k for making 1 k he, its not my idea of fun, maybe some people will do but the prices will increase also, making the life almost imposible and in NO way fun, this game must be more noob friendly and this idea its no the way. Maybe, if the spawns are based in time and not in quantity, it could be a good idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirianthis Report post Posted February 10, 2005 I have not yet voted, and will not until I've thought more about it... There are some very good suggestions here, not the least of which is running it on the test server and asking those that have actually used the system. This could be a good system if the spawns hold a quantity in the thousands or if it's time based as some have suggested. I don't like the idea of a fresh set of ore only containing 50 ore when i need 200+ for a full load. Having said that, It wouldn't be too bad if, as Hazor suggested, the spawn locations were within only a few floor tiles of eachother... even if that location can roam all over the caves. When mass production as we know it is no longer possible, that harms everyone's ability to make money... except the high level fighters. It's already not worth making tit longswords, tit chains, damage rings etc because they're also monster drops. When it becomes so much harder (or costlier) to gain the necessary materials, these items will mainly be supplied by the fighters. Think also of the added channel talk... 'hey does anyone know where the rose quartz is in CC now?' A new dedicated channel may be necessary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyReni Report post Posted February 10, 2005 Good point Kiri.... I am personally against chaising ore, it would take a lot more time than it is now and I don't have (unfortunatelly) much time to play the game ;( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
