Missile Protection?

[Enyo]

I just noticed for the first time that the chainmail have missile protection.. for example Titanium Chainmail has +4 missile protection. Can someone please explain to me what this is? Should be be preparing for some future missile attack by another reality?

[Dunian]

I think its refering to arrows or slingstones once they're added.

[Alderan]

I believe it means protection from arrows, bolts, etc from ranged weapons which are not yet in the game.

 

 

Dunian beat me by 3 seconds

Edited May 3, 2006 by Alderan

[Enyo]

Why does iron and steel chainmail have the same amount of missile protection +2 ? Shouldn't the more expensive heavier armor such as iron platemail also have missile protection? Better yet, shouldn't we have specified cave for fallout protection?

[Atlantis]

i r going 2 nuke j00 all!!!

[Learner]

Why does iron and steel chainmail have the same amount of missile protection +2 ? Shouldn't the more expensive heavier armor such as iron platemail also have missile protection? Better yet, shouldn't we have specified cave for fallout protection?

Because those stats probably were cut & pasted in ... probably get tuned when they start getting used.

[Entropy]

Because the chainmail is specifically designed to protect against missiles, while the plate mail isn't designed for that.

[Enyo]

Because the chainmail is specifically designed to protect against missiles, while the plate mail isn't designed for that.

Thanks Ent :-) My post was really more of a silly joke than anything else because I thought it was funny that it said "missile protection" and was seriously wondering what that was about, lol.

[petersohn]

Because the chainmail is specifically designed to protect against missiles, while the plate mail isn't designed for that.

Anyway, plate mail should have at least +1, because it should protect more compared to when you wear no armor.

[trollson]

Because the chainmail is specifically designed to protect against missiles, while the plate mail isn't designed for that.

 

If anything its the other way around.

 

Chain mail is:

• good against cutting/slashing blows, such as swords and edged weapons.
  
• poor against piercing/impaling weapons, such as arrows, bodkins, stilettos, which apply their force to a single link which can be broken.
  
• very poor against impact or crushing blows (club like weapons), which is why chain is worn over padding. In this case its the combination of the chain and gambeson (or aketon) which makes the gives protection.
  

Chain armous is also expensive to make, more so than plate, but unlike plate a lot of the labour involved is low-skilled. If you have ever made chainmail for re-enactment, you'll know how tedious it is to build up sheets of chain from rings (when I was doing this, we used split-ring steel washers and a pair of pliers). Consider then that in genuine chain mail the links are individually riveted (half solid, half riveted).

 

A full chain hauberk and gambeson, even Normal style, is not partiulary encumbering (no more so than a well fitted backpack when hiking). The strength of the riveted rings allow for a more open structure for the same effectiveness (lighter than the re-enactment stuff, which had to rely on the strength of the split rings).

 

One of the notable feature of plate is its performance against missile weapons; the smooth plates and purposeful ridges serve to deflect and direct arrows and bolts, whereas the rings of chain tend to direct a point into the body. While padding is still worn under plate armour, this can be less than under chain; since the plate itself serves to spread the force of a blow.

 

Why the misconception about missiles vs plate armour? I can think of two possible sources:

1. The survival rate of the Mongol hordes against missile attack; this was more down to recovery rather than protection. Their silk shirts did not tear when hit by an arrow or bolt, but entered the wound intact, wrapped around the projectile; this allowed the weapon to be removed and greatly reduced the likelyhood of foreign material being left in the wound, decreasing the chance of infection.
   
2. Battles such as Agincourt and Cressy; Longbow verses Knights. Experiementation has shown that the arrows used as Agincourt where all but ineffective against the Knight's plate armour. Unfortunately, the same could not be said of the horses... Dismounted, in churned up mud, the heavily armoured Knight lost his advantage.
   

In game terms, how can this be modelled?

 

Split physical damage into three components:

1. Cutting or slashing.
   
2. Piercing, stabbing, or impaling.
   
3. Crushing.
   

Each weapon and armour will then have different ratings for each type of physical damage, as they already do for non-physical damage (cold, heat, radiation).

 

For example, European swords would progress from piercing/cutting daggers, to cutting/piercing small swords, cutting/crushing medium swords, and finally crushing/cutting greatswords.

 

Note on armour manufacture

 

As I said above, chain is labour intensive, but mostly low skilled. In this case, considering the EL system, it would make sence to have a low-manufacture skill stage in which metal is turned into sheets of chain, which are then combined to give chain armour at a higher skill level.

 

Plate should still require a high level of skill from the outset.

 

References:

A couple of decent articles on Wikipedia:

• Chainmail
  
• Plate Armour
  
• And the category of Medieval armour (though I haven't read all these, so cannot vouch for their accuracy).
  

Edited May 4, 2006 by trollson

[Roja]

Thanks for the info trollson, it will be helpful

[Enyo]

WoW Trollson.. bravo!! That was a very interesting post.

 

Wouldn't it be cool if we were also required to wear padding under our plate or chainmail? That way we have more protection if we do and... if the plate or chain breaks we still have our padding on. What about helms?

[ville-v]

So chains would degrade to leather torsos and iron helms to leather helms? Good idea

Edited May 4, 2006 by ville-v

[Enyo]

So chains would degrade to leather torsos and iron helms to leather helms? Good idea

Exactly and we could also have a greater usage for leather torsos and leather pants because these could be an ingredient to make the special padding. I don't know.. its just a thought.

[ttlanhil]

Exactly and we could also have a greater usage for leather torsos and leather pants because these could be an ingredient to make the special padding. I don't know.. its just a thought.

perhaps, although to be more historically accurate... hardened leather is used as armour (sometime with studs, or other stuff attached), while padding underneath harder armour (like plate, chain, splint, etc) would have been made from softer leather (the sort used as clothing, etc)

[Roja]

well I think a pair of leather boots is used to make the iron greaves already.

[ville-v]

well I think a pair of leather boots is used to make the iron greaves already.

 

Greaves = 2 leather, 2 thread, 4 iron bars, 1 efe

[Thordin]

There is actually a padding in El armor, every armor in EL require some leather and torsos even threads...

[Enyo]

So, say for example we could use a completed leather helm plus normal ingredients in order to create an iron or even steel or other types of helms. As Roja said, we use leather in the greaves already so maybe when the greaves break, we are wearing leather boots? lol .. I know that wouldn't probably work but seriously speaking I think its worthy for the helms, chainmail and platemail. and for the cuisses I think we use leather on those too, don't we? I guess its obvious I'm not a manuer.

[darky]

Seems like a good idea that a leather construct is used to make iron or steel construct.

Darky

[DemonCowboy]

Exactly and we could also have a greater usage for leather torsos and leather pants because these could be an ingredient to make the special padding. I don't know.. its just a thought.

perhaps, although to be more historically accurate... hardened leather is used as armour (sometime with studs, or other stuff attached), while padding underneath harder armour (like plate, chain, splint, etc) would have been made from softer leather (the sort used as clothing, etc)

well, if u really want to go w/ that much realism, since current leather armor isjust called leather, maybe we could assume it's soft leather arrmor. (would provide more protection than cloth - i know i miss my brown leather jacket, that protected me from everything.) If Roja's ever up to the task, maybe she could create a darker hard leather armor that has a few more protections, and maybe 0 heat/cold resistance? and maybe -1 accuracy since hard leather would b harder to move in?

 

just a thought