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Another way to acquire pickpoints

#overall #pickpoints

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Poll: Another way to acquire pickpoints (25 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you like this idea?

  1. Yes (21 votes [84.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 84.00%

  2. No (4 votes [16.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.00%

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#1 Alphabet

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:00 PM

Hey all,

 

So i've been talking to a certain someone (Won't name unless they'd like) and we've come up with an idea.

 

 

Option 1: Max overall with 2 skills over 150

 

Players who have 150+ a/d generally are really close to maxing overall~

 

 

Option 2: 5 Skills over 100 (Cannot be A/D or overall)

 

Is it easier to get 179 overall or 5 skills over 100? This will just give an advanage to lower levels to become better players later on.

 

 

Basically if you qualify for either one, you are eligable to get a stone, say form Wraith at Isla Prima, or from shop (Up to players & Radu). That stone works like a pickpoint/overall level. The Stone will have x amount of exp, say 50m-100m~ exp. You must also have the stone in inventory, it cannot be traded, soulbound (So players can't profit on alts). You need to get 50-100m exp to "poof" the stone, once you do that and the stone poofs you get 1 pickpoint, rinse and repeat. Also.. if it's not already obvious, can only get one stone at a time, once it's turned into a pickpoint, can get another.

 

 

 

 

Pros:

 

- Excellent for players who are financially poor

- Great for players with max overall

- Good incentive to go and train instead of afking (Skarak can't hold all spawns :P)

- Excellent for people who mix alot, and not so much fighting

- Reduces the amount of gc sold ingame

- Another way of getting pickpoints instead of 1.75m~

- All lower level players will be better geared later on in the game

 

Cons:

 

- Won't be as quick as paying 1.75m for a pickpoint, acutally have to do work

- All players who are maxed overall will be upset this wasn't ingame earlier

- When you #reset, it works like a normal pickpint, it's gone.

- Does not work with Invance, but it works with Dalies.

 

 

Thanks, discuss down below, or just vote :)


Edited by Alphabet, 10 October 2017 - 01:30 AM.


#2 FairyTail

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:14 PM

Cool.
When we were discussing this in channel it wasn't as refined a proposal as this but I think the general consensus was that ~100mil exp would be fair as that's pretty much what you need for the last jump from 178 to 179. Besides, if it were lower you'd just get the bitches bitching again - "why should they get a pp for less than I need to get to lvl <whatever>" etc... I think that 100mil isn't a bad thing anyway - it is a lot to get, yes, but it is also less than it would be for the oa levels subsequent to 179 (assuming a continuation of the 5% increase in exp required per level).

 

I vote yes.

 

Keep in mind though that there will be the usual bitching in later posts by those that think everyone except them gets everything for free when they should be the ones who get it all instead. Fk them. If they were in a position to take advantage of this (not free - worked for) additional way to gain pp's it would be because they had spent the time & effort levelling more than their pointless-bitching-level.

 

 

:medieval:



#3 FairyTail

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:34 PM

A couple of points I forgot to mention before:

 

 

I like how it is for a wider range than just "oa 179 only" because it allows for those that have trained various skills to a very good degree but may have reset or are thinking of resetting or, no doubt, a multitude of other things.

 

I think this should be an 'automatic from the wraith thing' and not from the shop. The reason for this is that if this is to be a kind of 'reward' to those players who have attained a certain level with their char(s) through time & effort then buying it would kind of negate it being a reward. Imo rewards are given, not bought.

Besides, the bitchers will just say something like "oh! see! more pay-to-win!" and tbh I can't be arsed to listen to that sort of crap.

 

 

 

:medieval:



#4 Diealot

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:40 PM

Essentially you want to let players who have reached a certain criteria earn double the overall exp?

Why not just let it be for everyone?

The low end of your estimate 50M exp is level 0 to level 102.96
The high end of your estimate 100M EXP is level 0 to level 116.95

Would it really be so bad to reward anyone reaching either of those levels with an extra pp?

Similarly level 120 + 50M is level 127 and a bit.
Level 120 + 100M is level 132 and a bit.

Level 130 + 50M is level 134+
Level 130 + 100M is level 138+

Particularly if this is in relation to skills only (not a/d or oa), limiting to the already upper end players is only going to make the newb -> pro jump seem that much more formidible to truely new players.

_____

On a different line of thought...
Is this a remove and replace hydro nexus? or an in addition to?

Remove and replace would cause quite ridiculous inflation and I think most of us already dislike how high some items sell for these days.

_____

As for a vote

For everyone, sure. For only high level players... why bother?

_____

Edit:
After a chat with letters...

Some of the above is a bit of a mish-mash of what I think Letters wanted to suggest... sorry ABC.

No, if this were implemented for everyone you should not get credit for back exp.

Edited by Diealot, 09 October 2017 - 11:00 PM.


#5 FairyTail

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:52 PM

Not entirely sure I understand. I want to - I do! But I'm not following.

 

As an example you said "Level 120 + 100M is level 132 and a bit." Yes, it is. It also gives that player who levels their char from level 120 up to level 132 - 12 more pickpoints.

 

Your opening line was "Essentially you want to let players who have reached a certain criteria earn double the overall exp?". Erm... how would they earn double the exp?

 

I'm not looking to pointlessly argue with you but I am genuinely a little confused so I guess I'm asking you to explain your point of view a little more clearly. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, cos I can't. Cos I don't really understand what it is that you're saying. Sorry if it's me being a little dense here.

 

 

:medieval:



#6 Alphabet

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:01 PM

This is not a replacement to hydro nexus, this is in addition to it.



#7 dragon_killer

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:03 PM

Think it is a great idea, do you get any a/d exp after capping out a/d though?



#8 Diealot

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:10 PM

So...

[PM to Alphabet: Oh... I see my uh... misunderstanding... ]
[PM from Alphabet: Hm?]
[PM to Alphabet: The qualifications for the stone are A: high oa (probably via a/d), B: high skills]
[PM to Alphabet: The stone itself would work with a/d though, yes?]
[PM from Alphabet: Yes]

To this, sure.
Sounds like a good idea.
_____

While we're at it can we make a qualificationless one that works ONLY with skills?

#9 saxum

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:48 PM

I qualify for both but I think this could lend to some players just cashing out because their players are more valuable so I do not necessarily think it isa  good thing.  I also think there are some who will milk it (i have been told how easy it is to get tailoring experience which means those who sell the books like the author can make a windfall) so there needs to be some limitations:

  • x number per month per player
  • there needs to be x trades from other players before you can get another (Easy to implement. Keep a counter for each player on number traded and total traded and if enough others have not taken advantage of it you get response "not yet")

I am not even sure this is a GOOD thing - this will result in MORE PP inflation resulting in harder invasions, etc.



#10 Alphabet

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:11 AM

More PP doesn't mean harder invasions.. I'm not sure how or who put that in your mind. Why do you think they are 165 caps? So those who can hardly afford pp's can have slighty easier mobs.

 

Also. to even start doing tailoring.. you need to invest atleast 7.5m into it before you can even start mixing hats, and that's at 30k a book, if there rationality is low they will take forever to read it, and if you do read books 24/7 you can't have power hungry so -3 pickpoints too. If a lower level looked to invest doing that, thats -7.5m, not to mention it takes ages to read the books. Goblin tokens are NOT easy to come by, AND if they do use them, it would be way cheaper to just buy pickpoints straight up from NPC.

 

If a lower level wanted to qualify for this, don't forget they need atleast 5 skills over 100, not including A/D or overall. I alrady did the math and thought this through. sure this will benefit lower levels in the long run, but it won't benefit them if they buy skills to 100.. even then to get 5 skills over 100+ The fast way would cost quite a bit, it's not worth doing it if they want pickpoints.



#11 saxum

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:53 PM

You have convinced me to vote "no".



#12 dragon_killer

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:49 PM

Regarding the second option 5 skills over level100 , I have looked for some chars and it seems most of them are at least 170 oa, which is about 66M exp needed for an oa. Making it 50M wouldn't make sense to level up oa (as you trade 50M exp for 1 pp and that 1 pp requires less exp from the 'stone from the wraith'). Also making it 100M exp would be more than what you need for an oa.



#13 FairyTail

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:32 PM

Just a couple of points on the numbers & why I think 100mil exp is fair, even a positive thing.

 

 

Regarding the amount of exp required for OA levels: 100mil exp is actually less than would be required for the, admittedly hypothetical, oa 180.

To go from oa 178-179 you need 98,271,880 exp. Assuming that if higher oa levels were introduced & that the exp requirement for these levels were to increase at 5%, as the levels from 91 onwards are, the exp to go from 179-180 would be an additional 4,913,594 making the total required for this step to be 103,185,474.

The subsequent levels, still increasing at 5%, would be: 180-181: 108,344,747 - 181-182: 113,761,985 and so on. In fact, by the time you reached the jump from level 192 to level 193 you would need 202,960,084 exp.

 

Regarding the exp needed for oa levels in the 170's (as this was the range given) while it is true that to go from level 169 to 170 is 60mil, by the time you get a few levels further - for instance level 174 to level 175 - you need 80,848,519 exp.

With this in mind, if someone does have 5 skills (not a/d or oa) over level 100 my personal opinion is that these people have trained the 'expensive' skills to such a level that, surely, they deserve to be able to reap the slight benefit that this proposal would give them.

After all - as I have said in channel 6 before - 100,000,000 exp is not easy to get! You would need to grind like hell to get that in less than a time measured in months!!

 

 

Also - for the sake of clarity & despite my stats being open so this can easily be seen - I am not going to benefit from this being introduced under either option nor will I be eligible to receive one of these stones for quite some time indeed. I think this is a good idea for the game, not for selfish reasons. I too have looked at a few chars that are not oa 179 but either have or are 'close' to having the required levels to qualify under option 2 and - again, in my personal opinion - deserve to qualify for this slight benefit for the sheer amount of work they have put into developing their chars!

 

 

:medieval:



#14 dragon_killer

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:40 AM

Ok I didn't understand that correctly, I thought you would trade 100 M exp for the stone(and the exp would be lost from the oa bar) but it seems you would get the stone every time you reach 100M oa exp without losing your oa exp bar, if you meet the 5 skills level over 100.


Edited by dragon_killer, 12 October 2017 - 10:41 AM.


#15 BruSu

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:47 PM

why not make it easier?  when you reach OA 179 you do not get  oa xp any more - so  make it possible to collect  the mixing xp in a stone and when  ever you  reached these  100.000.000 (oc  this stone should not be tradeable) you  get a pp



#16 vinoveritas

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 04:36 PM

After you hit OA 179 you can get 76 914 716 more xp. when you reached that point go to redeemer he takes you off 80mxp(or 100mxp or whatever xp). you get down to 178 need to level up again and when you hit 179 you get your pp.  When you are again at max xp you can try it again . and so on and on.

 

as a thing that would benefit younger players too you could make mile stone achivements with redeemer when you can use the stone too to get xp loss and pp

this might hinder a bit the 57 oa max people (as i am one of them) who will not be able to get that low in oa again with getting the mile stone achivements.


Edited by vinoveritas, 18 October 2017 - 04:54 PM.


#17 FairyTail

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 05:55 PM

:hiya:

 

 

Just to clarify something for my own mind here. When you posted this:

 

why not make it easier?  when you reach OA 179 you do not get  oa xp any more - so  make it possible to collect  the mixing xp in a stone and when  ever you  reached these  100.000.000 (oc  this stone should not be tradeable) you  get a pp

 

 

I was working (ok, not working. maybe 'spouting' or 'listening to the sound of my own voice' would be more accurate...) under the impression that that was the way it was intended to work.

 

The way I understand it (or understood if it turns out I'm wrong yet again) is this: Because you do not get any more oa exp when you hit oa 179 (ok yes, I now understand you do get some ~77mil - just not enough to obtain an additional pick point) you would get this stone from, I am going to assume for the sake of argument, the Wraith. When you then have this stone in your inventory while playing any & all exp you gain in any skill - manu, ranging, crafting etc. etc. - would be added to the skill-counter's total as usual but IN ADDITION TO THIS the stone would also 'receive'/'absorb' the same amount of exp gained. This would be for the stone to operate as a 'substitute'/'alternative' to (or, in the cases of qualifying under option 2, 'as well as') it being accumulated in the oa bar as well as the skill bar/counter - as currently happens until you hit oa 179(and a bit ;-p). Again, as I understand it, this is being suggested as an addition to the game for those people who have hit the max oa level (who are also over a/d 150) as these people have no way to earn pick points any longer & are left with the only alternative - 'buying' them. I also believe that the second option of "any 5 skills, not oa or a/d, over level 100" was proposed alongside it as a way to include more people & to be more 'fair'. What if it was only for those with 179 oa & 150+ a/d? What if you had a/d of, for instance, 130, but 5 skills over 100 as well as having an oa (due to resetting more than once for build-adjustment, boredom like I did at oa 131 or whatever other reason) of only 155? I believe that WOULD be unfair as those people's chars are obviously at a level only attained by hard work & a lot of effort so to exclude those people/chars from this would be rather unfair & biased purely towards fighter chars which, incidentally, I would be against.

Despite what people may assume about my approach to the game :rolleyes:

 

Try thinking of it less as a 'stone' and more like a 're-usable, mini oa bar'.

 

And just to, yet a-bloody-gain, try to communicate to those few people who keep saying that this is "just another example of how the game panders to the high-end players" - THINK before you speak for crying out loud!

Let me try a different way of showing you how this is not an "easy bonus for players"...  Take a new char, then work on it. Then work on it more. Then, when you have that char to 210,229 exp short of hitting oa 117 you will have earned the same amount of exp that this stone will take to "fill up" with 100,000,000 exp. But in that time you would have gained 116 pick points for that char, not the single pick point that the same amount of exp put into this stone would give.

Yes - THAT is how hard it would be to gain that additional 'bonus' pick point. HOWEVER - you can hardly call it a 'bonus' of any kind if you have to have it in your inventory while grinding like hell to gain an amount of exp that a great many players have yet to achieve on their chars!

When I - finally! - reach the level to qualify to gain this (still only proposed!) stone it will take me 100,000,000 exp (that's 100 MILLION exp) to fill it for 1 whole pick point! In the time it takes me to gain that much exp, I may well be able to earn the gc required to 'buy' multiple pick points! Having said that, I genuinely would like to be able to 'earn' as many pick points as I can.

 

SUPPLIMENTARY SUGGESTION FOR AN ADDITION WHEN THIS IS IMPLEMENTED

 

This is why I also think that if this were to be implemented (which I REALLY hope it is) there should also be an achievement badge you can earn by doing it - as a way to recognise those players who do continue to put in the huge effort & great amount time to better their characters. No perk for it or anything, just something you can obtain & be proud of as it would show how hard you work on improving your character. Maybe rank 1 (bronze badge) would be gained after filling 5 stones, rank 2 (silver badge) would be gained after filling 10 stones then rank 3 (gold badge) would be gained after filling 20 stones. The reason for saying 20 stones is that this would be 2 billion exp (BILLION - with a 'B') which is the equivalent of working for roughly the same amount of exp as you would from oa 0 - oa 179.

I don't have any good suggestions for a name for the achievement as yet but, maybe, something like "Experience Addict" or "Punishment Glutton" or even "Busy Bee". I admit, I'm not the best at naming things...

And yes, I really do understand how bloody rare it would be for people to attain rank 3 in this achievement -BUT- that is why I think it should be this way as it would be so rare it would add something truly special to the achievement(s) you would have already attained.

 

 

 

The things I really do hope result from this post are: people finally stop criticising this idea as a 'freebie for the high-end fighters' & realise how genuinely hard it will be to 'benefit' from; that it turns out that not only did I understand it properly but have managed to make it easier for people to understand as well; that this stone IS introduced into the game as soon as it possibly could be and, finally, that when it is implemented it is done so in tandem with the achievement award I have (albeit roughly) outlined above.

 

 

I know that this is a pretty wordy post (again. sorry.) and that some of the words may even be considered to be surprisingly long to be used by a knuckle-dragger such as myself but, if you made it this far, I really do appreciate you spending your time doing so. I hope that I didn't end up getting myself tied in grammatical knots, thus making less sense than I'm kind of sure that I managed to.

 

 

As a final point: given how long this post is - aren't you glad the in-game chat system inherently precludes me talking this much in channels..?... :hehe:  :w00t:  :P

 

 

 

 

Have fun & play nice,

 

:medieval:



#18 vinoveritas

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 12:43 PM

I agree with your math, thats why i think there is no need to make it based on any other then oa based, if you max out oa you have invested either lots of money to buy a char, in that case you are not likely to level it. or you have worked very hard for it. and then (at least for me it is) its something that dampens the feeling of doing more. remove 100mxp after you maxed out every xp you get and get one level down that you can level up helps a lot

and that with the awards is a good idea, it would also allow people to get the award after some game mile stones :P reaching oa 50 100 150 179  repeated 179 hits give different award :P



#19 Zamirah

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 02:13 PM

I have some questions:

What happen if people have full A/D, will the stone only count down in other skills  and not fighting ?

 

Will the stone be non drop ? Or do you need to carry a rosto ?

I know other could not pick it up, but it could puff ?

I would hate that 1 or 2 rooms in my inv were taken, could it maybe be in storage or even better not a stone but a new exp bar under the other exp bars.

 

Would people only work on skills that give easy/fast exp  ? I think prices would change a lot, as an example ore/minerals would be hard to buy - too low exp.

 

I for sure would never level ranging  ( level 19 atm ;) )



#20 vinoveritas

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 02:15 PM

if you do not get xp for an level anymore you would not get oa level for that one would you?






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