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Domino

Encourage players to join instances and invances

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Basically first you want to learn how to survive there and how to win as a team. But you can only learn that by going there as a complete noob and knowing how strong some monsters are compared to you. This is very discouraging and many players will consider them too weak to join one of those.

 

So what if you don't drop any stuff when you die in your first 10 invances? Even more, once you get invance lvl 40 you get a pop up saying you can do those and get encouraged to join. Maybe even make a quest that will reward you with 1 rostogol stone after your first successfully 10 invances.

 

And the same for the instance.

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I think this is pointless, if they haven't learned Anything during the time they get high enough to enter the invances and don't even care about gathering information about them so they know how they work what to do in there how to do it and all that then they shouldn't enter an invance in the first place.

 

Harsh I know :P

 

Unless they do it because it is fun and don't mind dying and all that then it is good because they will learn more that way and be pampered through it all giving them a false safety that all of a sudden is gone and they start losing things because they are reckless..

Edited by Entris

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umm... considering the first few invance ranges had a very small permanent population when i was last there, i think the issue stems from a completely different root. Just before i left, me and Maxine had managed to set up a very good way for them to learn invances, with her staying in demigod mode giving suggestions and help, me going around pratically helping them and offering to pay for some of their costs. This went to pot imo when it turned out the only people actually taking part were alts. Whole range went to pot.

 

issue is with WT/Feros/fluffy in lower invances mean you need someone with good armour and already with rostos (who mostly levelled up after we ran out of newbies). We have a huge issue of it being too easy for the rich newb, but hard as hell for the average one.

 

Instance wise, its too difficult at level 60-80. needs to be made a tad easy, and i would say add a mini training one, with low return and armour req for them to learn in, and figure out if they want to spend on armours/rostos to try the proper ones.

 

but this stinks of the same old ideas and discussions i had a year ago which was aggressively put down. Core issue is mobs/armour and the expectations of newbies skills and money being set too high.

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For high level instances and invances I'd expect the players to know what they can handle, and know how to escape from a monster that's too strong).

So no need to give free rides there.

 

For the lowest levels, something to make it a bit easier could be useful, but 10 no drop is too many I think (and at those levels Rostogols aren't probably cost effective, so no to that as well)

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for low level ones revi

thats what this topics about isnt it? getting people INTO it

 

And yes, rostogols arent cost effective. armours to do it are decently expensive, but not expensive enough to warrant rostos. so you have that issue, which helps nobody.

 

imo best way to sort out problems like this is drop rostos to $1, radu will sell more, more people can pk/invance/instance and if you keep the difficulty balanced he should not lose any money.

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Yes, i was targeting lower lvl, ofc. 120+ players usually do a lot of invances and instances. But i don't remember to ever see a 40-60 invance and 60-80 are really rare. I know for sure there are active players in that range and apparently they don't even try it. You would expect 40-60 to be to most crowded and 120+ the less but is the other way around. I know an explanation is the low number of new players, but this doesn't explain why nobody even tries.

 

Maybe they don't even know this stuff exists because you can't find out about them just playing the game alone. That's why i was thinking to let them know somehow and encourage them to go there.

 

And yes, if we make it easier first few times than also the reward could be a lot less. And personally only one time easier i think is not enough. I would need one time just to completely screw up and after that, knowing myself, i will still screw up things. But as long as you don't give the same rewards i guess is ok to let them try more times.

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I think that a lot of the problem is the fact that some low level players do not have the necessary equipment to go which equates to a lot of gc for low lvl players. Especially in the Noob Instance (60-80) as it explains in the wiki the recommended stuff to go is a lot of gc for low lvl.

 

Forgive me if my prices are wrong but:

 

Steel armour or better = 88k (plate) 39k (cuisses) 31k (greave) 740gc (shield)

Col or RDHLM = 110k/80k

Several rosts (lets say 2 minimum) = 116k

Great Sword (lets say OS) = 40k

NMT Cape = 270k

 

Look at the gc costs before you even enter, it would take for ages to raise that kind of gc for low lvl player!

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I've got no data on instances (they are not announced), but from logs I get this as invances run over the last 9-10 months:

40-60 invance started 45 times, 60-80 invance started 95 times, 80-100: 74 times, 100-120: 40 times, 120-200: 247 times. (just for 2014 so far, it's 3, 18, 26, 16, 50).

 

So it appears there's not really a problem for the low level invances. And the 120+ is also for players in end-game, for who

there's not necessarily much else to do, which can explain the much higher count for that one.

Edited by revi
added data for 40-60

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I forgot to check for those... Sorry about that, added them now. And they seem to have dropped lately.

 

How I got those data:

grep -i "special invasion, save iscalrith" srv_log_2014*.txt |grep "40-60" | wc

Then take the first printed number and divide by two (as there are two messages per invance) (and replace the "40-60" bit by the range of interest). Also, those numbers should be taken as minima: invances occuring when I'm off-line aren't counted (abviously).

 

Like I said, no data for instances, so it might be different there (though I see no reason why).

 

But it seems that the only invance that might have been 'abandoned' is the 40-60 one (and even there, it went from 5/month to 2).

Edited by revi

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Invances are run at request, the 40-60 have not requested any.

If people do invances, they level out real quick, which has caused a lot of (alt-)players to leave the invances before the xp is doled out, but imo that is a really warped situation.

I think a possible solution would be to make 40-60

- less xp (e.g. 500/lvl)

- no drop, not for players and not for mobs (different than KF)

- no rosto level gear requirements

Right now the ground in front of the gate gets littered with dozens of creature bags, and the occasional DB, making it real hard to find the stuff you dropped.

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Maxine, it would be nice if i got the drops from the bosses i end up having to kill in that situation. Thing with 4060 is it ended up being 3 people requesting it, no newbie, just alts and myself. 4060 may have partially recovered from the low point when i left, but we dont have the numbers to do our old 12 man invances, with iron plate/augs as the most common armour, which was the best experience for doing them. As i see it, you need to get more newbies, keep them, and encourage them to try out various different pasttimes and events. I posted a massive list of suggestions here (which was shot down by radu, but reposted on other EL variants seemed popular O.o). So basically my secondary solution is:

 

Make sure everything is tankable by mixer @ top cap or fighter @ mid cap in iron plate. (not talking tank builds)

Reduce drop chance in map

Reduce break chance in map

allow toggling off/on exp at end. Personally, thats one thing i avoided in all my invances, but othes take as an incentive, Will drop lower w/o incentive

Make designate bosses (Fero/Fluff/WT) drop everything else can just be non drop.

Scale the invance.

 

If players are interested in invances still, i could always come back and try again to encourage them...but i doubt the detrimental problems inrange have recovered enough in the last year.

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...

Make sure everything is tankable by mixer @ top cap or fighter @ mid cap in iron plate. (not talking tank builds)

...

Make designate bosses (Fero/Fluff/WT) drop everything else can just be non drop.

Scale the invance.

I think you are right that bosses should drop, maybe even more than they do now.

 

Scaling the invance might help the lower levels, where often only small teams are available, but there should be a minimum size, with 5 people it should be do-able in the time given.

 

I rarely see real new players show up in 1, most new chars show up in 6 and are obviously not new players.

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Yeah, thats quite annoying. Why i stopped subsidising them, i was just paying for alts to get in. Thing the last few real mains people were me, atomos, biker_boy, etc. and none of us were really new. Only other guys i recall who were genuinely new either bought gold, hit level 80, decided they had done everything and quit promtly, after doing about 5 invances in every range, or reaching us with leathers and quitting when they were eaten by many monsters. Too few creatures at the bottom cap levels...

 

EDIT:

Invances are run at request, the 40-60 have not requested any.
<snip>
I think a possible solution would be to make 40-60
- less xp (e.g. 500/lvl)
- no drop, not for players and not for mobs (different than KF)
- no rosto level gear requirements
<snip>

Less exp, less reward. Why go and just burn resources. You do 3 and realise there is no varietry, get bored unless you get new people to do it with.

No risk, no thrill

 

Risk/Reward. The system most games are based off. ALL games that ARE WORTH PLAYING at least. Something EL has not learned to deal with though. Rostos = no risk/reward in pk. BroD gives nor R/R. Nothing gives R/R here. Because R/R needs balance, and people posting these suggestions dont think of balance, and often they are not implemented with balance because that takes ages and ages to do. But it keeps the players. Look at your steadily dropping numbers... look at the hours people are cutting from playing...look at how every newb quits straight away because its a grind with no end, no chance to get to the competetive level in before the phase of interest (which has dropped incredibly here) turns into a phase of boredom, skipping the phase of competitive/coop play when you should have got to mid/high range. People/Devs need to think more in R/R balancing to make things fair and fun, and not an unrelenting grind or a walk in a park. Varietry would also help.

 

Dont take this rant personally Maxine, you and maybe 2-3 other mods i have always respected, thought were competent. But im just saying this because EL is slowly drifting away from the fun factor toward the sewage treatment plant.

Edited by JoeButler

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