PK suggestions- read it ent.

[Tempest]

after an 1 hour talk in ch4, i'm suggesting to remove the most PK arenas. the most "popular" (lol) places in c1 are KF/NCA/WSA/TD.

 

TD = oldschool pk map

WSA= close to stor, nice tirbune for ppl and contests + close to ring/portal teleportals.

NCA= close to portals exit, NC stor/votd close.

KF = main PK map close to votd stor and has DP/votd/SKF exists, towers, mercury, strategy field.

 

i suggest to remove nearly every unused pk arena, which will in my oppinion just seperate PK into more pieces which makes it basicly impossible for low lvls to find ppl equal or around their lvls which is what most people would like to have anyway.

no single pker, or upcoming pkers has the nerves nor the gc/time to check 15 different places to find 1 person, if people wanna go pk they dont wanna search 20 hours or wait a day, they wanna find people on their lvls which they can fight.

 

part of my suggestion: get rid of DPA:

 

people level their chars and stop training at 50 a/d. they stay there endlessly. sure they will never find anyone equal to their lvls when they grow out of DPA style, cause the ones they can fight will stay at DPA for ages and TS down without an aim for higher lvls. (if TS would be removed from DPA, it would be a serious thing for Pkers to learn the first steps of pking, instead of making alt chars and that kind of stuff to get stuck there. thats another possibility)

 

KF - Highly discourages low level people to go there because of the chim/fluffy spawns. people under 70 a/d will get slaughtered like nothing if they meet a fluff/chim without uber high lvl special armor/swords.

 

- and last but not least, something that can't be done on coding side. Pkers need to stop being dicks and attacking anything that has like 100 a/d lower. this highly discourages people to PK even tho i know how much it sux when those are the only people you find after 5 hours sitting in PK. if newbs cant Pk safely they will scream fpr arenas, which will just seperate the whole situation like it is at the moment.

 

Those "suggestions" are not alone my point of view, i strongly agree with all those points but they'r the result of a long talk in ch4. and the person who actually adressed all those points first was a pure mixer.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Tempest

[TirunCollimdus]

I think this type of suggestion has been the main one that most PKers are making. I only NDD PK because I can't afford rostos at the moment. I think it should be considered that hidden PK areas be removed as well. TD and KF both have monsters that will slaughter any 70s~80s PKer if they get attacked while in a fight and of course the FC in KF will just eat them all by themselves. It can be killed but it is hard.

 

I think if the spawns are changed there is enough area for low and high level players to PK without discouraging lower levels but Tempest is right about people 80-100 levels higher PKing new PKers. Only the higher level players can do something about that. If enough people were in PK though they should match up to people of their levels.

 

I think Tempest is saying these should be only PK areas in the game with the cave before hydro being an exception. As almost PKers stick to Seridia changing the PK areas in Irlion to nonPK should not make a difference. Hulda might be the exception if PKers think they need a map in Irilion. Why not just give this a try as areas can be turned on and off as PK and adjustments made as needed.

 

Tirun

[Talixim]

Having so many different PK areas on C1, makes it more expensive to PK seeing as you need tons of teleport essence to get from one spot to the other quickly. Unless you have the time and patience to make everything yourself...that essence adds up. Also, if PK was limited to one multi-combat map, then PKers would use that map instead of wandering around trying to find people. Also arenas normally just have people sitting on the sidelines spectating instead of getting into the action. With a PK map there are no sidelines available

 

All in all it's a good idea imo.

[Atlantis]

I agree with the part about removing more PK areas, but I disagree with removing arenas like DP Arena.

While it does create the sort of chars that are designed only for fighting there, it provides a different style of gameplay for people similar to a level cap. It means that people can train to an a/d, still have competitive PK fights often, without having to worry about

1. Being destroyed by people 50+ levels above them, who is invisible and harming them for a lot of damage very quickly. People will not stay in a map if they don't think they have a decent chance against anyone who comes there.

2. Having to train every single day for a minimum of 5 hours in order to remain competitive in a PK Area. Aka, someone does not have to be power leveling to be "the strongest" of an area.

 

Solutions?

a. Remove a lot of PK areas, limiting them to only the most used maps.

b. Have only one (probably KF) map that is not level based, and have it multicombat of course so big gang fights can come back again.

c. PK maps should be small maps. Not ridiculously small, but small enough that it doesn't take more than a minute or two to determine if anyone is on the map.

d. Create more use of level based arenas. People don't want to have to go to a far away map and then walk a long time on that map to get to this map. That's the reason why areas like Nordcarn, DP Arena, and KF are so used, because they are closest to storages and other resources.

e. Make it so that TS pots do not affect the level-based arenas. This eliminates most of the use of arena tanks.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Atlantis

[Tempest]

a. Remove a lot of PK areas, limiting them to only the most used maps.

b. Have only one (probably KF) map that is not level based, and have it multicombat of course so big gang fights can come back again.

c. PK maps should be small maps. Not ridiculously small, but small enough that it doesn't take more than a minute or two to determine if anyone is on the map.

d. Create more use of level based arenas. People don't want to have to go to a far away map and then walk a long time on that map to get to this map. That's the reason why areas like Nordcarn, DP Arena, and KF are so used, because they are closest to storages and other resources.

 

a) yes that was my point of this suggestion

b ) cant rly comment im that cause im against having a arena for every 20 a/d step. means gang fights will only be 120-140 vs each other.

c)i understand people wanna learn how to PK, i also understand they want the 40/60's arena to be there. but from 60 to 120 there is no need for arenas cause of the point b ) imo. and Tsing for those arenas will make people stay endlessly there. do you know what will probably happen now there's a 60's arena? probably many high lvls will make alt chars again cause they now have the opportunity to stay at those arenas till 74 a/d. first they can dominate dpa, then they go dominate dpa2 when they cant ts for dpa1 anymore. i'm all for an arena like DPA/DPA2 where people can learn to PK until lvl 60. they will have much time to learn pking and from lvl 60 a/d it's pretty easy to level to 100 a/d with clops/fluffy. but then i think TSing should be removed from those arenas, so once the people reach 60 a/d (they have PK points then) they should have learned enough for Real PK and move on to training a lil bit. this makes some sense IMO.

d) well i answered the first part in the above long point. and yes the reason why those arenas are used is cause they'r small (kf), in a good location (kf/nc) and closest to storages (kf/nc/dpa). thats why it is just useless to split the PK in EL over like 15 different places.

 

 

 

EDIT: while i wrote this i saw ur point e) edit atlantis. thats exactly what i was refering to

Edited July 14, 2008 by Tempest

[Atlantis]

I think we have similar ideas, but not the same.

I don't think pk should be split up into 15 different arenas, for every 10 a/d between 1 and 150. that is not what I was trying to say.

Instead of adding more arenas, reduce the number, but make the ones that are there actually used a lot.

So there should be for instance a 40, 80, and 100 arena, all of which are close to resources --> cheap and easy to access. Then 1 or 2 multi, no restriction PK areas.

 

Also very important is to reduce the cost (consider not only the armors/weapons, but more importantly the things that get used every time: essences, potions, rings, and of course rostogols). If the price of spending ~20 mins in PK (say it includes a death) was reduced from like 20k to more like 2 or 3k, people would definitely be more relaxed and willing to take the risks discussed above.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Atlantis

[Elveron]

Hi, Elveron the 2-week warrior here, weighing in on something I don't much understand. PK is fun, I get that. Losing your db is not fun (I've experienced that). Regarding PK maps, you go there, you take the risk. If you lose, you lose. On the other hand, I explored every inch of TD one night, wearing steel chain, augmented leather pants, boots, iron helm, moon medallion, bp cloak, and tit ls, and I saw NOBODY (with like 12/12 a/d)! I gathered potions and small change to my heart's content. (Yay for MM perk). That was the bulk of my net worth in EL that night, so I was pretty much risking it all (or was I).

 

Some players complain about the lack of PK, it seems, yet, I can own TD for a night, Imbroglio Islands PK for about an hour (asking in @4 how to get out, and nobody came running to waste me), some unknown period of time in whichever C2 wasteland has a pk fort with tunnels underneath, a pk tavern (cool!), and no challenge. I've been killed exactly once in KF, and the PK'er let me come get my bag (it was full of flowers, because I'd filled each inv slot with one flower as a prize to whoever downed me). If I were strong, I'd have PK'd the noob that came back for that bag, and told him to stay off my map.

 

OK, moving on. Training arenas are needed. TS is LAME. Graduate. When it's not really a challenge anymore, if you're afraid to step out with the sharks, you're just sad. Like a big 8th grader hanging around the 5th graders, beating them up, because he's afraid to try fighting a freshman. Yep, you lose some fights, that's how you grow. Maybe there needs to be some gaps, I guess the oldschoolers know where the level breaks are - which level range is impossible to get out of, seems like you'll never OA, and could come up with a good consensus. Sure, arenas near sto are great. 'porting all over trying to find just one person to fight sucks.

 

Does everyone know Gossip will do a PK matchmaker service. I hear it takes a while to find a match, but maybe you all aren't using it enough.

 

 

I don't know about WSA, but NC is a great location, and KF is too. It would be interesting to see SKF turn PK for a while. I use it to go from NC to DP a bit, and making it dangerous would change the face of things a bit. Plus that river running through it gives PK armies a reason to TTR into a fight, or out, could be interesting. A small viewing arena in all PK maps is cool, like the two platforms in II. Might be hard to get to, and out of (#beam ftw) but it gives some of us a chance to really see PK happen without having to spend extra time at the beam getting healed.

 

A part of the chat tonight centered on hydro. I don't know where it is, but I understand it's tough to get to, takes TTR, and the mine area is PK (awesome!), which makes hydro's high cost worth it. Getting hydro is obviously a team project, not something a couple of noobs who maxed their inorganic nexus can just waltz in and take. There are tricks, I hear, like invisibility, but really, you need a team, and that's what guilds are for. Bring your badasses, your harvers and your makers and go get some serious loot for your guild.

 

Anyone moaning about the amount or location of the current PK situation (meaning, they say there's too much) either needs to find their resources elsewhere, go the long way, get tough and be ready to fight for your whatever, or take the risk, sneak in, grab what you need and sneak or beam out. I'll never kill Scotty, he's way too cool. Scotty's in my pocket, no worries about a ring, I go where I please (doesn't work in TD, didja know? ) and either fight, run or die.

 

I can understand about wanting to consolidate some of the PK, but hey, work on your communiation. Establish @PK say number 666 or something, I don't know. Jump in the chan, setup a meet, and go beat the hell out of each other. Why waste a single ess or ring?

 

As far as PKer's 'being dicks', it's a PK map, you assumed the risk when you went in. Sure it's not fun to get hammered down, and you lose your bag, but maybe get yourself a guild, and go in packing some backup. Find out who's there, and talk to them, ask for guidance in lvling and learning PKstyle. Maybe even ask for your bag back. Some PK'ers wil lol stfu you and keep your stuff, others will give it back, and kill you again! Shame on you for falling for it.

 

It's just a game, have fun. I plan on getting killed hundreds of times, I'm not afraid. Anyone wants to challenge me, bring it. I'll show naked with a bone and an inventory full of flowers, but I'll show. If I get 100 def exp, yay. But I will only come to TD, so leave your rostos at home. Better yet, bring a dozen! Eventually I'll take them! :-)

 

All your cries of stfu n00b will be met with a cheery 'yup, we all have to start somewhere'.

Every single one of you was a n00b once, you paid your dues, now I'll pay mine. I know that I don't know st00fs, but I'm learning. Sure wish I could get Lenny to kill me once. I'm getting a bit tired of wandering C2 all alone at night, when I could be working on another OA.

[SenZon]

Also remove PKI imo ..discorages some ppl to fight scared they will lose pki (NDD for example)

[Chosen]

I've said this for the last 4 months.

[bigshock28]

Hate the idea. If you know me, you know why.

[conavar]

Pretty much agree with all of Temps post, but after the convo last night I got to thinking about it and would go a step further.

 

I would also remove Wsa,Dpa and TD from Pk and just leave KF and Nca.

 

Right before all the "omg that suxors " comments, I would replace the old arena's maps with a coliseum style arena in one central map ie: Portland :

 

Now the big point about the coliseum is that to bring all Pker's to a central spot it would either:

 

A ) Alternate every 3 hours from a capped 60 a/d arena (where Ts doesnt work and cant see the need for a cap lower or higher than 60) to a uncapped arena

 

or

 

B ) Be an arena for everyone all the time but with a capped range of who you can attack ( doesnt have to be a small gap, being able to attack ppl within 30-40 a/d of yourself is enough). Then a 30/30 a/d fight could be taking place right next to a 100/100 a/d fight and tips,hints,flames,n00b comments can be exchanged to the hearts content.

 

And Nca/KF would still be there for Unlimited PK and mass brawls

 

The old PK maps/PK arena maps could be made more usefull than they ever are now just by adding more trainable spawns:

 

ie: Remove the pk element from TD (but leave the no rost part would be a nice risk factor for trainers ) and add a few chims

or Add Trices to Thelinor or Feros to Kusa etc

The maps would be alot more used than they are atm .

Edited July 15, 2008 by conavar

[Chosen]

Would it be possible to implement something like this:

 

One arena, where the person who enters it, can only be attacked by someone within there CombatLevel (CL). Meaning you can go there, and you could fight someone your own levels? This would make it used alot.

 

OT - Nice idea, reducing the PK area's will make it alot easier for those who PK to find some. It's alot easier to check C1 PK maps, than go all around C2.. Ofcourse, some maps will still need to be PK.. Like Hulda for example.

[daiske1]

What would be nice is to see the combat level near the name.

 

 

 

I'm not sure about this though cause its just like runescape.

[korrode]

Runescape may suck in many ways, lots of other games may suck in many ways, but that doesn't mean every element of those games sucks, and not implementing something just because another game has similar is unwise, imo.

 

--------------------

EDIT:

 

On topic:

 

I pretty much agree with this thread, i'll just bullet point my exact take on the ideas:

• Remove all c2 PK areas except Thelinor, Hulda and Imbroglio.
  
• Remove all c1 PK areas except KF, NCa, WSCa and TD.
  
• Remove all the 'old-school' effects on TD and make it so you can only attack players +/- 15 CL.
  

(revised list below)

 

- and last but not least, something that can't be done on coding side. Pkers need to stop being dicks and attacking anything that has like 100 a/d lower.

lol you'll never get everyone playing to 'do it our way' so long as it doesn't break the game rules. The game itself enforcing such things is the only answer.

Making a +/- 15 CL map is a coding way to achieve what you've stated.

People will still train, there'd be no reason not to, the risk to you in the 'fair fights' area (my suggestion being TD) would remain the same no matter your a/d.

 

(Whether or not 15 is the right +/- amount i'm not completely sure, maybe a 10 or 20 would be better... i'd have to do a bunch of tests to give a figure i'd be 100% confident in... but i'm failry sure 15 would be about right).

 

EDIT2:

And btw if TD has any chims (i cant remember) they have to go. The clops and fluffys will be enough of a pain in the ass for low-mid level PK'ers as it is.

The +/- 15 CL area would probably be the most used PK area if implemented, so TD being the biggest makes most sense.

Plus, for the most part, all TD is used for atm is abusing the no cooldown for magic training and cheap mixing.

 

You know, the more i think about it the more the "remove all PK areas but..." bit seems irrelevant.

The people looking to have PK fights only goto kf/nca/wsca/dpa anyways, removing all the other PK areas would just make training easier, it just seems like a ploy for more safe spawns... easier sun tzu days for everyone.

 

With rosto @ 17kgc, I still strongly believe the "fair fights" issue is the key factor.

I do understand and agree with the concerns of people making 'Arena chars' and never leveling any further.

We all know these 'Arena chars' are made by experienced PK'ers and make those arenas completely unusable as safe-ish PK training grounds for lower a/d players who are new to PK.

Had there been arenas all the way up the a/d scale in good locations (preferably right near each other) from day one maybe these 'Arena chars' wouldn't exist... but they do.

So:

• Remove all the 'old-school' effects on TD and make it so you can only attack players +/- 15 CL.
  
• Remove all level limited arenas.
  

IMO, they really are the 2 things that would seriously vitalise EL PK, much more than anything else that could be done considering the current situation... barring perhaps making rostos cheaper.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Korrode

[Tempest]

I pretty much agree with this thread, i'll just bullet point my exact take on the ideas:

• Remove all c2 PK areas except Thelinor, Hulda and Imbroglio.
  
• Remove all c1 PK areas except KF, NCa, WSCa and TD.
  
• Remove all the 'old-school' effects on TD and make it so you can only attack players +/- 15 CL.
  

and trust me, even if for sure no1 believes it, this will surely help PK. many pkers agree with it and even tirun and some other hardcore mixers.

imbroglio for sure has to be pk, hydro, risk involved. same for hulda, ice dragon and good gc/hour should be pk. thelinor is just a nice strategy field and good for events too.

 

i wonder why this isn't even considered, noobs cry and get some own arenas and when pkers suggest something it doesn't even get rejected it just gets ignored to death. sad, rly sad.

 

 

(korrode: td doesn't have chims)

 

 

 

 

EDIT: do you really think radu would remove the arenas cause we think thats right? i won't say anything more to that, i'll pm u ingame if you log on and tell you why that never will happen.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Tempest

[korrode]

 

btw i edited my post and added some more

 

EDIT:

Of course whats funny is, some map maker just spent the time to add an arena to DP and Radu spent the time to set it at 60 a/d... even if the ideas in this thread are brilliant, the chances of them getting implemented are extremely low just because no one ever wants to throw out the work they've just done...

 

...can still hope though... and can still bump this thread every 2 months

Edited July 15, 2008 by Korrode

[Chosen]

Keep TD as PK (Not oldschool.), but add 6 Desert Chim spawns, spread over the map.

 

As for the 3 bullet points Korrode made, exactly what I was saying.

 

And make NC PK cave the no rosto/whatever.

[Addienne]

And make NC PK cave the no rosto/whatever.

too close to storage, easy peasy for mixers to mix without cooldown!

[conavar]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the current Combat level system easily abusable in this case with a reset (since p/c count towards CL) ? so wouldnt another system need to be worked out ?

 

 

 

Note: Must abmit I with kor and Temp and agree I dont think anything will change, but trying and failing is better than not trying at all

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Be nice to know just for the record, how many Players wanted a new 60/60 arena in DP

Edited July 15, 2008 by conavar

[Tempest]

And make NC PK cave the no rosto/whatever.

too close to storage, easy peasy for mixers to mix without cooldown!

yeh and what would that mean? mixers go there to mix, pkers come there to kill them, mixers get guildies as backup = let the huge pk massacre begin.

 

 

ffs thats the point of it.

[korrode]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the current Combat level system easily abusable in this case with a reset (since p/c count towards CL) ? so wouldnt another system need to be worked out ?

How exactly is it abusable?

If you reset, your CL will drop, so will your char strength.

 

But anyways, i'd hope Radu will use his system as a basis to judge player strength (being the system that non-def level based monster ignores work off (i.e. the calc done to determine hobs/ogre/fluff/yeti/etc. ignore)) rather than the community developed "Combat Level" calculation.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Korrode

[conavar]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the current Combat level system easily abusable in this case with a reset (since p/c count towards CL) ? so wouldnt another system need to be worked out ?

How exactly is it abusable?

If you reset, your CL will drop, so will your char strength.

 

 

How much does it drop though ? thats what im asking lol (since I have never checked when i reset) does it drop enough so for example a 100 a/d char with mid p/c could attack a 60 a/d char with max p/c ?

[Tempest]

2 coord count 2 CL, while 3 attack or def lvl count 2.25 CL (0.75 each)

 

 

anyway before teh god isn't ready to have an open discussion about this you can forget suggesting more and more stuff, better to focus and what is really needed in the first place and on what we all agreed till now.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Tempest

[korrode]

How much does it drop though ? thats what im asking lol (since I have never checked when i reset) does it drop enough so for example a 100 a/d char with mid p/c could attack a 60 a/d char with max p/c ?

From my experiences in CL based PK events, the CL calc is quite good.

People 15+ a/d under me were about my strength when i was low p/c and fighting them. (i actually didnt win my division in that ~LE~ comp despite being many a/d over any of my opponents. I had 20/32 p/c and they all had much more).

[Chosen]

And make NC PK cave the no rosto/whatever.

too close to storage, easy peasy for mixers to mix without cooldown!

Lol hehe, you can tell you havn't PKd befor.

 

CL arena's would be good, would make new players/older players want to PK more.