Atmosfear

[Starlite]

This is just a warning to all. Myself and a guildie, Blacklobster were group havesting quartz in NC. I said hi to the player next to me, he waited for the change-over then jumped our bag. I later found out from Kanedri that he is in =HC= guild

[00:45:33] willowleaf: hi

[00:45:36] Atmosfear: hay

[00:45:51] willowleaf: hey

[00:45:59] willowleaf: bagsnatcher

[00:46:14] blacklobster: thieving git

[00:46:36] KaNeDRI:

[00:46:38] willowleaf: did you see what guild he was in?

[00:47:05] willowleaf: we just had a bagjumper

[Sayre]

Oh look, all the "omg Atmos <3 lolz wb jaja" posts were deleted.

 

Now look at the Outl...whin...erm Disputes rules please.

 

S.

[Lorlen]

"All initial posts (the post that starts the thread) MUST include valid proof such as a screenshot or unedited logs. Any accusation without proof will immediately be deleted. Repeat transgressions WILL be addressed."

 

I see no proof, I can make a chatlog like that in 30 secs. Why is this post still here?

[Aislinn]

"All initial posts (the post that starts the thread) MUST include valid proof such as a screenshot or unedited logs. Any accusation without proof will immediately be deleted. Repeat transgressions WILL be addressed."

 

I see no proof, I can make a chatlog like that in 30 secs. Why is this post still here?

Yes you do have a point, however not everybody has the forethought at the time of "stress" to grab a screenshot. Not everybody has the knowledge either to make a screenshot and then the knowledge of how and where to upload it then post it. While obviously a screenshot of chat or an event is best, that seems a bit too harsh and unfair to players who are not as computer savvy as others.

Also people who only post a log such as this have to understand that people will understandably have doubt and will make comments such as yours, which is a legitimate concern.

[Aislinn]

Ok and I will be adding a rule that people posting absolute garbage in this section will lost posting rights.

Come ON people.

[Starlite]

"All initial posts (the post that starts the thread) MUST include valid proof such as a screenshot or unedited logs. Any accusation without proof will immediately be deleted. Repeat transgressions WILL be addressed."

 

I see no proof, I can make a chatlog like that in 30 secs. Why is this post still here?

I'm sorry but I don't understand your comments, I don't know how to "make up" a chat log or do a screenshot and as for the previous post by spleenfeeder I did NOT edit the chat log either. Also you are over-looking the fact that I wasn't alone there was the other player in my guild there at the same time as a witness to the fact. Anyone who knows me knows that I am not a person who makes things up and I have a good reputation in the game. I take offence that you would think otherwise when I clearly state I posted just to warn other players in the game. You ask for the chat log to be posted and I did that, so if the chat -logs can be changed as you say, then why ask for one in the first place? Im sorry it just doesnt make any sense to me. I did what I thought was the right proceedure, if i'm wrong then i'm very sorry.

Edited May 27, 2008 by willowleaf

[Starlite]

I went back and found more logs about this, I am putting them here un-edited

7:39] willowleaf: set_guild_color =HC= red

[00:57:44] Atmosfear: nice

[00:57:46] [Thrice @ guild]: LadyReni or Zaer might do something about it...they are nice

[00:58:15] [blacklobster @ guild]: how much was in the bag cos i took 35 from it

[00:58:16] willowleaf: are you going to return our bag pls?

[00:58:28] Atmosfear: nah u turned out tag red

[00:58:51] willowleaf: i haven t done that yet you have time

[00:59:06] Atmosfear: id rather have the quartz, thanks tho

[00:59:23] willowleaf: pleasae yourself then

[Lorlen]

"All initial posts (the post that starts the thread) MUST include valid proof such as a screenshot or unedited logs. Any accusation without proof will immediately be deleted. Repeat transgressions WILL be addressed."

 

I see no proof, I can make a chatlog like that in 30 secs. Why is this post still here?

I'm sorry but I don't understand your comments, I don't know how to "make up" a chat log or do a screenshot and as for the previous post by spleenfeeder I did NOT edit the chat log either. Also you are over-looking the fact that I wasn't alone there was the other player in my guild there at the same time as a witness to the fact. Anyone who knows me knows that I am not a person who makes things up and I have a good reputation in the game. I take offence that you would think otherwise when I clearly state I posted just to warn other players in the game. You ask for the chat log to be posted and I did that, so if the chat -logs can be changed as you say, then why ask for one in the first place? Im sorry it just doesnt make any sense to me. I did what I thought was the right proceedure, if i'm wrong then i'm very sorry.

 

Like so:

 

[00:45:44] Atmosfear: Hi i like bananas

[00:45:46] [Thrice @ guild]: Did you know I really like oranges?

[00:46:15] [blacklobster @ guild]: ORLY?

[00:46:16] willowleaf: Sorry, I find bananas offensive

[00:46:28] Atmosfear: stfu, bananas pwn

[00:46:51] willowleaf: no, they make me angry!

[00:49:06] Atmosfear: bananas r king!1

[00:49:23] willowleaf: outlaw!

 

See how easy that was? btw I'm not defending atmos here, he did do it

 

Just annoys me when spleen quotes the rules whilst blatantly ignoring some others. I mean if you're going to enforce some enforce all of them.

[Aislinn]

Just annoys me when spleen quotes the rules whilst blatantly ignoring some others. I mean if you're going to enforce some enforce all of them.

What rules did he ignore?

[Lorlen]

The one I quoted. The "evidence" posted here is a joke. It's like proescuting someone, walking into the courtroom with a typed "confession" and trying to fob it off as evidence. People would die laughing.

 

Its basically the same as me posting:

 

Aislinn bj me today, took my 20 COL and 50348990gc. Here is evidence.

 

[00:32:44] Aislinn: LOL I took ur bag!

[00:32:46] Lorlen: Please give back

[00:33:15] Aislinn: hahahahah no I am outlaw!

 

It is ridiculous to even consider something like that as evidence, and as such any post with only that should be deleted, as per the rules. You can say "well people will be suspicious" but to be honest, people will see the name in the topic title and draw quick conclusions from there. The principle is completely skewed.

[Aislinn]

So you think that chatlogs should not be considered as "evidence" and that word removed from the Disputes section rules? Even though I already stated that anybody choosing to use a chatlog subjects themself to disbelief and requests for better proof?

And I consider this a serious discussion, not taking potshots at you for daring to question it. I have been debating myself whether to allow chatlogs. I do understand their limitations and credibility factor

 

(And to this point, SpleenFeeder didn't disregard the rules, since at the time he took moderator action, it specifically states chatlogs are allowed).

[Lorlen]

I understand that it's often the only evidence that can be provided, I just have a massive problem with the fact that something that is so easily faked can be used as evidence.

 

However, needs must.

[Aislinn]

I agree with every point you made, especially that once a name is in the title, the reputation sticks, no matter how bad the "proof" is.

And mods don't accept chatlogs alone as proof of anything, for the exact reasons you put forth above.

However I also don't like that anybody with a valid "dispute" can't warn/post/accuse/debate the issue because he doesn't know how to make a screenshot or upload it. That is a lot of our playerbase, unfortunately. And since this section isn't about ingame rules with "legal" consequences, it seemed the lesser of two evils to allow chatlogs.

 

Meh, I'll ponder it some more.

[Scorpius]

how about explaining in the disputes rule how to take a screenshot of console or of the screen in an way that everybody can

understand it and to say that most likely a copy and paste of the chatlog wont be enough evidence to convince the community

(not putting it as an rule there of cause, just as a note for the ppl who will post here)

 

I never really thought about it but i think Lorlen is right there that this is too easy to fake (even tho i couldnt be arsed sitting

down faking chatlog >_<)

[revi]

Another possibility might be screen shots of logs in console mode.

I know this is not ideal (no automatic timestamps for one), but such screen shots can be made (much) later in the same session, and are a lot harder to fake.

Also, one can add a timestamp by clicking on on-screen clock as soon as one realises what happens.

 

I agree that screen shots of the 'crime in progress' are best, but difficult for some :

e.g. under linux the hotkey isn't configured, so atm I have to use an external program; by the time I've started that, the scene has changed

[Aislinn]

Yes we know what would be acceptable. We know Lorlen is right. The whole issue is some people don't know how to do it. That is why at this time chatlogs are included. Please READ the thread before you post.

And before the zillionth person suggests a screenie tutorial, Shujral has made one, he is just getting the linux and mac versions together (so if you can help him with linux or mac, he'd appreciate that!)

[korrode]

e.g. under linux the hotkey isn't configured, so atm I have to use an external program; by the time I've started that, the scene has changed

o,O'

 

ctrl+p works fine for me.

 

ctrl+p is the quickest way to take screenies in the Linux or Windows client, u can quickly take as many screenies as u like, much more efficient than hitting PrintScreen and then opening some imaging app, or using Gimp's/whatever's screen capture function in Linux.

 

ctrl+p automatically saves screenies here:

 

windows: My Documents\Eternal Lands\Main\Screenshots

linux: ~/.elc/main/screenshots

Edited May 30, 2008 by Korrode

[snoozy]

snoozys guide to faking outlaws!

 

make fake logs

 

if you see someone training on a monster with a sword.. attack it barehanded, then make a screenshot and claim hes a spawn serper

 

if you see someone on a bag , make a screenshot while you are saying 'bagjumper' !!

 

hope this help you guys out !!

 

np my pleasure

[Sayre]

snoozys guide to faking outlaws!

 

make fake logs

 

if you see someone training on a monster with a sword.. attack it barehanded, then make a screenshot and claim hes a spawn serper

 

if you see someone on a bag , make a screenshot while you are saying 'bagjumper' !!

 

hope this help you guys out !!

 

np my pleasure

 

All this is fair enough.

 

I suppose it is on the person READING outlaws to make a judgment as to whether the evidence put is sufficient to imply "guilt"

 

The bigger question is whether the post alone (with or without sufficient evidence) is already too damaging, before the jury comes back to to speak. Maybe there needs to be discussion on the minimum level of evidence needed to even have an initial post survive in here.

 

S.

[SinS]

snoozys guide to faking outlaws!

 

make fake logs

 

if you see someone training on a monster with a sword.. attack it barehanded, then make a screenshot and claim hes a spawn serper

 

if you see someone on a bag , make a screenshot while you are saying 'bagjumper' !!

 

hope this help you guys out !!

 

np my pleasure

 

All this is fair enough.

 

I suppose it is on the person READING outlaws to make a judgment as to whether the evidence put is sufficient to imply "guilt"

 

The bigger question is whether the post alone (with or without sufficient evidence) is already too damaging, before the jury comes back to to speak. Maybe there needs to be discussion on the minimum level of evidence needed to even have an initial post survive in here.

 

S.

Personally, if I read something in the disputes forum, even if it has just a few lines with no actual proof, I think it still serves a purpose. I remember the names involved and see their future actions. From their future actions I then judge the credibility of the outlaw post. Usually it is quite obvious if you get to know the players, if it is something they would do or not.

 

So basically I think the more proof the better, but even minimal serves it's purpose.