Moving of Chimeran spawn locations in Tirnym...

[Cruella]

Ranging is extreme example, but as I said before, no other skill is comparable to a/d and a/d has a huge advantage over all others in terms of OA exp per hour. Therefore I see no reason to improve anything with raising a/d exp/hr in mind. What I find reasonable though is to reconfigure spawns in a way that allows more people to use them.

[SenZon]

Gee guys, you have well over 200k exp per hour easy in any case and you are always hungry for more, never have enough. What a ranger should say having like 20k exp per hour max IF very lucky and knowing what to do :/

 

a/d trainers are the most priviledged group in this game (fastest OA gains and game concept mostly revolving around close combat) yet the most demanding and never satisfied lol

 

And yes, I also train a/d but for once I'd like to see some changes that decrease the a/d levelling advantage over other combat related skills (magic and ranging)

 

it is extremly hard to compare these skills, Reasons: For a player to even come close to block/hit a dragon "well" you need at least 135+ a/d which takes years of training and im pretty sure you dont need level 100 to range down a dragon... and i say this from experience i am nearly 130s and have never blocked a dragon (killed ~30 dragons) and im not sure if i can even hit a dragon ( i use thermal serp so i depends stricktly on critical hits which do ~20 damage) and i also helped range down a few dragons and you have a advantage that you can pin these down.. the point im trying to make is every one comparing atk/def training wioth other skills , a/d is the only skill that you will never get enought due to extremely high level monster that your a/d will never be enought to handle 1 VS 1 , as in ranging magic all you need is a few levels that you do as much damage as we do with less danger. In magic all you need is a magic lvl of around 50 with max rationality you can harm for over 130. Imagine if magic level went as quick as a/d ? A mage with a magic level of 140 would harm for almost 500? i am getting range levels so i can see if damage done is according to levels..so with ranging i dont have much to say.. but yes the whole point of what im saying here is DONT compare a/d leveling with other skills please.....................

[Gilrain]

...

The real-world outcome of this is that once a person has leveled enough to be able to move from FCW to MCW in their training, all they get for their efforts is less experience per hour and less gc drop per kill (the MCW drops less gc than the FCW).

This seems kind of cruel and unusual lol

...

It's very common that when an a/d trainer suggests a change to monsters around their own levels, someone decides they are being selfish, irrelevant of if they actually are.

..

 

The only way to make it so they'll be commonly used in single spawns is to reduce their respawn time to be the same as DCW and make their Toughness and Armor exactly the same as DCW (which is what i suggested be done a while ago but Radu didn't like it)... the validity of this is only as debatable as "1+1=2" is debatable.

 

this thread shows to me the following:

* if there are changes that ease the lifes of combat trainers (DCW spawn time reduced), this is soon used as an argument to demand even more

* some people claim to make suggestion on behalf of 'the game' or 'the players' but in fact everyone makes suggestions that primarily help him/herself (and this is not wrong imho, but be honest about it or at least dont claim things in the name of others)

* some people tend to forget, that not every char is build up or played the way it is 'best' or 'fastest' or whatever criteria they build their own char after (also see the point before)

 

i am sure that you, Korrode, know very much of the details of combat training and everything related, but your view to the game seems a bit narrow to me. If the game had the creatures optimized for the mentioned purposes, it would be more boring, not less.

 

And (also to Senzon): if you make a level and switch to a different monster that gives a bit less exp per hour, so what ? Where is written, that you have to have a linear levelling experience ? and which other skill has that ?

 

I think that we would improve the game, if it would be possible to reduce the multi-training, instead of favoring it (Entropy said that he doesnt like it above anyway):

I dont know too much about the details of the system, but as i see, you can make huge amounts of def exp, if you manage to multitrain with monsters, that practically cannot hit you (because you block all their hits except criticals by armor/def/whatever. This result in people facing 3+ monsters and no damage is done on either side, but the exp counter runs. That is not good for the game imho.

Maybe it is possible to introduce an additional multiplier to the gained experience, that takes into account the 'real' circumstances, so that your exp goes towards zero, if you cant be damaged at all by the creature trying to hit you.

 

If we could accomplish this and the outcome would be that you are gaining too few exp as a higher level fighter, it might be possible to raise the outcoming exp again a bit with other means that fit better into the game setting. Its just that the changes that are proposed here tend to go to the wrong direction, even if the result might be desirable.

 

[korrode]

SenZ does make a very good point.

 

EDIT:

* some people claim to make suggestion on behalf of 'the game' or 'the players' but in fact everyone makes suggestions that primarily help him/herself (and this is not wrong imho, but be honest about it or at least dont claim things in the name of others)

The funniest part of all this is that due to my timezone the triple spawn is usually free when i want it, while Europe and the Americas, where this is a much bigger playerbase, all have to share this 1 spawn. As things are atm, i have a training advantage that's beneficial effect for me will be reduced if my spawn loc changes were implemented. (i.e. others will be training when they usually may not have been, helping them to catch/keep up/pass my levels)

 

 

I think that we would improve the game, if it would be possible to reduce the multi-training, instead of favoring it (Entropy said that he doesnt like it above anyway):

I dont know too much about the details of the system, but as i see, you can make huge amounts of def exp, if you manage to multitrain with monsters, that practically cannot hit you (because you block all their hits except criticals by armor/def/whatever. This result in people facing 3+ monsters and no damage is done on either side, but the exp counter runs. That is not good for the game imho.

Maybe it is possible to introduce an additional multiplier to the gained experience, that takes into account the 'real' circumstances, so that your exp goes towards zero, if you cant be damaged at all by the creature trying to hit you.

Firstly, 'multi-training' FCW/MCW (i.e. more than one creature on you at once) has already been abolished with the recent changes to chimeran ignore levels, my suggestion has nothing to do with what's usually defined as 'multi-training'.

Secondly, your statements here do display a lack of experience with training the creatures in question; you say things like "practically cannot hit you" and "people facing 3+ monsters and no damage is done on either side". With my def un-TS'd it is 14 levels higher than an MCW's attack, and lets just say that i have 'quite high' reaction, and yet i take way more hits than a Feros trainer with their def 10+ levels lower than the Feros attack, due primarily to the much higher crit-rate on the chims.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Korrode

[Ambrosius]

Three 2 chim spawns is better then one 3 chim spawn imo. Gives 3 people the chance to train for good xp instead of 1 person getting all the xp.

 

I dont think there should be too much messing about with the xp the chims give (as some ppl suggest). The get less xp from Desert chim and up is probably intended (strong monster = hard to kill and hits hard) and works as a soft cap aswell, together with the increasing xp needed per level. If that wasn't in place then everybody would be ultra high lvl in no time.

[Ateh]

For the benefit of the game , and of course in my noble spirit completely non beneficial for me I would like to suggest reducing respawn time of fluffs, increasing thier GC drop ( because 1gc from a fluff isn't funny ) and re locating that annoying little **T@&*@( fluff that is outside carmian manor , it spawns all over the freakin place and is ruining teh game for people of all time zones, but not myself of course

 

250k xp points per hour is just planly wrong, its not and will never be enough for me anyone in the game , do you now how many millions it takes to get a level these days ?? I mean, thats like every hour I get quarter of a million xp, when in fact I they need close to 2 milion an hour to get my everyone elses def level this week

 

THIS IS NOT FAIR

 

Lastly I would like 155 a/d as soon as possible , so please change your game according to my everyone elses needs , kk thnx

 

[/end of satire]

 

*edit* dont get pissy i was just lightening things up

Edited January 22, 2009 by Ateh

[korrode]

ahhh another 'decider' ...deciding whats been said rather than actually reading the thread and taking the words for their dictionary definition.

 

I think for the next month i am going to be a decider.

I will post on any thread where a change is suggested and point out how i've decided that the suggested change is selfish.

 

EDIT:

*edit* dont get pissy i was just lightening things up

kk then... i was bluffing with that whole 'decider for a month' thing anyways :>

Edited January 22, 2009 by Korrode

[Cruella]

Gee guys, you have well over 200k exp per hour easy in any case and you are always hungry for more, never have enough. What a ranger should say having like 20k exp per hour max IF very lucky and knowing what to do :/

 

a/d trainers are the most priviledged group in this game (fastest OA gains and game concept mostly revolving around close combat) yet the most demanding and never satisfied lol

 

And yes, I also train a/d but for once I'd like to see some changes that decrease the a/d levelling advantage over other combat related skills (magic and ranging)

 

it is extremly hard to compare these skills, Reasons: For a player to even come close to block/hit a dragon "well" you need at least 135+ a/d which takes years of training and im pretty sure you dont need level 100 to range down a dragon... and i say this from experience i am nearly 130s and have never blocked a dragon (killed ~30 dragons) and im not sure if i can even hit a dragon ( i use thermal serp so i depends stricktly on critical hits which do ~20 damage) and i also helped range down a few dragons and you have a advantage that you can pin these down.. the point im trying to make is every one comparing atk/def training wioth other skills , a/d is the only skill that you will never get enought due to extremely high level monster that your a/d will never be enought to handle 1 VS 1 , as in ranging magic all you need is a few levels that you do as much damage as we do with less danger. In magic all you need is a magic lvl of around 50 with max rationality you can harm for over 130. Imagine if magic level went as quick as a/d ? A mage with a magic level of 140 would harm for almost 500? i am getting range levels so i can see if damage done is according to levels..so with ranging i dont have much to say.. but yes the whole point of what im saying here is DONT compare a/d leveling with other skills please.....................

 

You have missed my point - what I was referring to was OA gain, not what you can/cannot do with each of skills. I have started to train a/d for a sole purpose of getting my OA higher in order to get more pickpoints needed for the nexuses. Initially I wasn't planning to fight at all but I was simply force doing that by the fact that it was the fastest way tyo get pp's. I surely hated training a/d and I do not like to do it still, nevertheless the shortest way to reach my goals in other skills is by a/d training. As you've said - if I want to be a good mage I have to max rationality - so I need pp's. To be good manuer/crafter I need plenty of nexuses as well. Even to be a good ranger I need pp's to raise my perception. It would take me dozens of years to get them by ranging. That causes a/d are currently my highest skills despite of the fact I was not planning to be a fighter at all andf I still do not plan.

[korrode]

You have missed my point - what I was referring to was OA gain, not what you can/cannot do with each of skills. I have started to train a/d for a sole purpose of getting my OA higher in order to get more pickpoints needed for the nexuses. Initially I wasn't planning to fight at all but I was simply force doing that by the fact that it was the fastest way tyo get pp's. I surely hated training a/d and I do not like to do it still, nevertheless the shortest way to reach my goals in other skills is by a/d training. As you've said - if I want to be a good mage I have to max rationality - so I need pp's. To be good manuer/crafter I need plenty of nexuses as well. Even to be a good ranger I need pp's to raise my perception. It would take me dozens of years to get them by ranging. That causes a/d are currently my highest skills despite of the fact I was not planning to be a fighter at all andf I still do not plan.

You're forced to a/d train fro OA exp, and a/d trainers, prior to getting to very high a/d, are forced to harvest/mix because a/d training doesn't support itself.

I dont have 80's alch and harv out of choice.

[Spidi]

As you've said - if I want to be a good mage I have to max rationality - so I need pp's.

So you need about 88 pps to make big damage, you need much more pps if you want make quite good damage with melee weapon =)

Training a/d is the best way of make high oa and get many pickpoints, but also you need much more pickpoints to BE GOOD in this skill than in other.

[SenZon]

In melee to do good damage you would need capped p/c with high r and depending on built either high inst or vitality. So capped p/c = 88 pps + you would need around 32 rea to have a good restore + hit anything high leveled decently and your inst or vitality (in my case) i would need 36 inst + my 20 rea = tht is 166 pps which means ill have to neg out of my life and even buy some pps to do "ok" VS a dragon , and maybe i would even have to flee that dragon once to kill it. And doing all these negs i would have to , Stop harvesting Stop mixing (due we cant harvest) cant change maps (hellspwn) maybe get bombed (if one has ONE , which i dont ) can't beam (scotty) cant buy from NPC (anti-social) and powerhungry (not a biggy)...just stop comparing a/d to other skills D:

[Cruella]

In order to excel in any skill we need to make sacrifices somewhere else. It is not limited to a/d. See how many pp's top manuers and crafters have in nexuses, especialy when they mine rare ores by themselves. I do not know any EL player who would say that he has enough pickpoints, no matter what is his/her primary skill.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to endlessly argue, I've made my point and good that it has been heard hehe

[SenZon]

alot of nexus LOL . all you need is 30 pps to have 6 nexus in everything (besides human) is that too much , rest you can just stock on phys/coord xD and only reason you stopped arguing is cause you cant compare these skills... and like korrode said make your own thread about it to whine there cause this isnt "lets range/mage or potion a chim" to death thread...

[Khalai]

alot of nexus LOL . all you need is 30 pps to have 6 nexus in everything (besides human) is that too much , rest you can just stock on phys/coord xD and only reason you stopped arguing is cause you cant compare these skills... and like korrode said make your own thread about it to whine there cause this isnt "lets range/mage or potion a chim" to death thread...

 

If you add 88pp for maxing p/c for carrying capacity and 12-16pp for decent will (=exp), you will stop at somewhere of 130-134pp. And you cannot take antisocial or sorrow if you're mixer. So the amount of pp needed to excell in both combat and production is comparable.

 

I like combat from time to time and I consider myself allarounder, so any sensible change for combat there is, I concur with it. Just to make myself clear that I am not a complete pacifist. But amount of pickpoints to excell in combat or in productive skill IS comparable SenZon. And don't give me reply like: you don't need maxed p/c to be good mixer. If you want to make the best out of it, you do, just as fighters.

[SenZon]

if any one wanted to make the best out of it i would need capped p/c/r/i/w/v LOL , i love it how ppl that have no clue what they are talking about. I have played this game for a LONG time now and have done every skill (besides tailoring) so when i say you just cant, cant, cant compare these skills..*sighs*

[korrode]

Anyways OT posts can stop now, i couldn't care less if other skills are harder or easier than a/d tbh... lets just discuss (and post support for) my hugely logical, overly sensible suggestion of changing Tirnym from 1xTriple+2xSingle to 3xDouble.

[SenZon]

Amen.

[popeye]

And yes, I also train a/d but for once I'd like to see some changes that decrease the a/d levelling advantage over other combat related skills (magic and ranging)

I don't agree. Leave a/d alone.

[Shadow_runner]

I can get behind any corrections when coming to spawns.

 

However the moaning over xp per hour, I can't agree with. Those people who can train on uber monsters can also take more part in invasions, where the rest of us 'mortals' have too hide indoors.