OSOMN's ridiculous power

[Miiks]

If having to completely remove the penalty for dying (i.e. ND-KF) as the only way to get PK active in this game isn't proof enough for you that changes are needed, then you'll never see it.

If it makes pk active again, I don't see any reasons to think it again. And I have seen better and more fights in KF after it was made ND than ever before. So wtf is the problem anymore? Btw I haven't seen you in KF even it has been ND for a pretty long time.

 

Damn I'm drunk. Sorry for silly post.

[SenZon]

@ miiks Click <--

 

gotta back up a guildie

 

srry for offtopic but they should just make those swords less rare or even a formula to make em

~SenZ

[korrode]

If having to completely remove the penalty for dying (i.e. ND-KF) as the only way to get PK active in this game isn't proof enough for you that changes are needed, then you'll never see it.

 

Yeah? And what do you suggest? Socialism FTW? Everyone is equal?

I've made my suggestions multiple times already, in detail, over the past year or so.

 

In the 2+ years i've been playing your game i've watched a/d/oa levels be worth less and less, equate to less combat strength, because riches have become worth more and more.

 

Dragon armors.

Rare/Magical great swords.

Pickpoint buying.

 

All these things offer massive combat benefits and cost a freakin fortune in gc (or RL$$), where as those of us who actually work our combat skill, doing actual combat (i.e. training), get (comparatively) less and less of a benefit for our efforts.

 

Sit at a lupine bush for hours a day (or coal/silver/whatever).

Mix, mix, mix all day.

Spend RL $$.

 

These are the things that offer big combat benefits and none of these are actual combat.

 

I dont want everyone to be equal, far from it, i just want combat training to offer the biggest increases to combat strength.

 

EDIT:

Perhaps increasing the value of attack and defense levels within the hit and dodge combat roll calculations is a suggestion more to your liking.

In theory, you wont even have to adjust all your monster stats (not from a training point of view anyway). from a PvE point of view, it'd just mean lower a/d creatures (in comparison to ones char) will become even weaker and higher a/d ones will become even stronger, which i dont believe would be a bad thing... plus you're always able to ensure there's a lower limit to resource usage through the creature crit-hit and crit-dmg rates (which you already do this, some people are training fluff/feros and basically only being hit on crit-hits and only taking dmg on crit-dmg+crit-hit creature rolls (from some of Asgnny's comments in the past, this is even the case for some Yeti trainers), nothing will change for these people's training.)

 

The key change will be that Player A with 10+ a/d over Player B will be less susceptible to fight loss due to Player B's riches.

 

The person who combat trains will be more likely to win the combat, not the person who mines/mixes/spends.

 

EDIT2:

An unfortunate side-effect of the above suggestion is that the already huge gap between 100-120's a/d'ers VS 130+ a/d pp buyers will get even bigger... you could always remove pp buying and "soft-reset" everyone, under the reasoning that although you're removing these people's bought pickpoints, and not allowing them to buy more, you're compensating them with increased strengh from their very high a/d levels.

 

Sadly i cant imagine you ever doing that, but nonetheless, i wont retract a good suggestion due to a negative accompanying effect that stems from an unrelated balance flaw.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Korrode

[Troger]

You could sell your special gears and afford better internet.

 

-Gohan

And first new pc(my have 5 years ).

 

yes fryslan i death 2 times this day first 3 ca$h + 50tigers and later you +"few" tigers:P

I would like to know that you people have counters in your eyes??

 

sorry for the offtopic

[Vanyel]

EDIT2:

An unfortunate side-effect of the above suggestion is that the already huge gap between 100-120's a/d'ers VS 130+ a/d pp buyers will get even bigger...

 

 

Gonna love this generalisation.

Generalisation is a tool of demagogic propaganda.

All Soviets are communists. All followers of Islam are terrorist. All 130+ a/d people buy their pickpoints. All who don't agree with Korrode are fools.

[korrode]

EDIT2:

An unfortunate side-effect of the above suggestion is that the already huge gap between 100-120's a/d'ers VS 130+ a/d pp buyers will get even bigger...

 

 

Gonna love this generalisation.

Generalisation is a tool of demagogic propaganda.

All Soviets are communists. All followers of Islam are terrorist. All 130+ a/d people buy their pickpoints. All who don't agree with Korrode are fools.

When did i say all 130+ a/d'ers buy pickpoints?

I said there's a huge gap between 100-120 a/d'ers and 130+ a/d pp buyers.

i.e. the 130+ a/d'ers that buy pickpoints, not all of them.

 

dont put words in my mouth.

 

EDIT:

love how u dont have any real argument against my actual suggestion, u just nit-pick at little non-crucial parts of what i've said.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Korrode

[Miiks]

@ miiks Click <--

 

gotta back up a guildie

 

srry for offtopic but they should just make those swords less rare or even a formula to make em

~SenZ

Ok I'm not drunk anymore, so I will explain what I mean

 

If pk is active now, when KF is ND, what is still the problem? You don't lose anything if someone kills you with special sword so wtf are you (Korrode) still crying? Afraid of losing pki? Iirc you said that pki is not imporant to you.

 

Earlier you was complaining about lack of pk and now when there is pk, you still keep complaining. Just go to pk, have fun and don't cry if some ebul PP buyer special sword bitch kills you there. You can always pk lower lvl people that you can kill. There is always stronger people than you, even pp buying and special swords are removed.

 

- MiiX

[korrode]

I think there's much better methods of increasing PK activity than removing penalty for death, specifically by making PK itself more enjoyable, for more people, so that the risk of a penalty is out-weighed by enjoyment factor.

So i'm making my suggestions. What's your problem?

 

For the record: I think ND-KF is a great band-aid solution. Out of all the band-aid solutions that could've been chosen, it's by far one of the best.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Korrode

[Miiks]

I think there's much better methods of increasing PK activity than removing penalty for death, specifically by making PK itself more enjoyable, for more people, so that the risk of a penalty is out-weighed by enjoyment factor.

So i'm making my suggestions. What's your problem?

 

For the record: I think ND-KF is a great band-aid solution. Out of all the band-aid solutions that could've been chosen, it's by far one of the best.

Most people enjoy pk atm too and don't see special swords and pp buying as a problem. You just can't get everything you want.

 

Also this game is not just pk. Should we go back to time when iron plate was best armor and serp best sword? Then high lvl manuers starts complaining, that they don't have any challenge anymore. Also these rare swords are good incentive for manuers to make swords.

 

I don't care if you say your opinion and suggestions, but I'm getting bit annoyed because when other people say "thank you Radu for making pk active again", you just keep crying that pk is not perfect yet. If you want a perfect game, make one yourself. No armors or weapons and just naked fights. You can be sure just your skills and lvls matters then.

 

Just stop thinking everything just the way you would like it to be, because every single player thinks things different way and likes different things. I think these rare special swords are great thing (maybe bit overpowered, I agree) and I don't see PP buying as a problem. Also there is things I don't like in game, but I think it this way, that there is people that likes them and I don't complain about them because of that.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Miiks

[korrode]

Most people enjoy pk atm too and don't see special swords and pp buying as a problem. You just can't get everything you want.

I can try

 

Also this game is not just pk. Should we go back to time when iron plate was best armor and serp best sword?

Hell on, i'd quit.

 

Also these rare swords are good incentive for manuers to make swords.

If the chance of making those rare swords is the key incentive for manu'ers to make swords... then i feel sorry for the manu'ers.

 

I don't care if you say your opinion and suggestions,

Great, so your post ends now? ...oh wait, it doesn't

 

 

I'm getting bit annoyed because when other people say "thank you Radu for making pk active again", you just keep crying that pk is not perfect yet.

I'm getting a bit annoyed with how unwilling people are to look at the root causes of why PK died in the first place.

Guess we all have our things that annoy us

 

Just stop thinking everything just the way you would like it to be, because every single player thinks things different way and likes different things.

Ya and heaps of them come on these forums every day, making their suggestions, so i come back to my original question; What's your problem?

...and whatever your problem is, it seems you have this issue with a lot more people than just me.

 

EDIT:

Oh, and perhaps you haven't realised, but my suggestion is not to remove said rare swords, my suggestion is geared to leaving the swords in-game, but making another change to decrease their effectiveness.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Korrode

[Miiks]

I'm getting bit annoyed because when other people say "thank you Radu for making pk active again", you just keep crying that pk is not perfect yet.

I'm getting a bit annoyed with how unwilling people are to look at the root causes of why PK died in the first place.

Guess we all have our things that annoy us

Problem WAS that people was afraid of losing their expensive rosto. If they pk again, isn't the problem solved then? It's just you who still got some problems about pk. I just don't get it, how can you say there is still GENERAL problems in pk, if there is more pk than for a looong time. So they are just your personal problems IMO, not general problems.

 

And is there some problem, if I say MY opinion? Looks that you think your opinion is only truth and others are wrong. Just learn to think things broader than your own mind.

[conavar]

Pretty much agree with certain points both Miiks and Korrode make:

Is PK perfect: no .

Could it be made better: Yes .

Is it 100% better than it was a month ago: f00k !! hell yes (and gratz to Radu for doing it)

 

 

I do agree with is the following statement, which should hold true wether there is uber weapons/armour or not imo

 

i just want combat training to offer the biggest increases to combat strength.

 

 

Quick idea to give ppl a chance to moan,swear,flame etc

 

The attribute cap made great strides in making PK fun, and instead of just penalizing pp's buyer (if they got the money why not), how about capping the amount of pickpoints that can be spent on attributes (not going to suggest any numbers at this time),would make player builds alot more strategic and would also bring back into the game the PK perks ( but more would have to be implemented imo to give a wider choice of builds) which players could spend there now spare pp's on

 

ok flame away

[korrode]

...

bleh, originally i wrote this big post using a building as an example where when u have a flawed mid-section and u just build nicer floors on top eventually it'll all come crashing down.

 

But what do i care really if some ppl cant see my point... and i gotta be up early tomorrow.

night

 

edit:

@ cona

 

 

 

EDIT2:

oh just one more thing cause i worry that some people dont quite understand my stance on the subject:

I THINK ND-KF IS AWESOME

 

But im a computer tech and where many ppl have the saying "if it aint broke dont fix it", we generally go with "if it aint broke make it better".

 

So i'll always make any suggestion i think could make a system better. I'll never 'just be satisfied cause it's better than it was'.

for anyone who doesn't like this way of thinking; always remember that the only reason you have padding on your chair and air conditioning in your car is because some people out there always strive to improve on things.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Korrode

[Miiks]

EDIT2:

oh just one more thing cause i worry that some people dont quite understand my stance on the subject:

I THINK ND-KF IS AWESOME

 

But im a computer tech and where many ppl have the saying "if it aint broke dont fix it", we generally go with "if it aint broke make it better".

 

So i'll always make any suggestion i think could make a system better. I'll never 'just be satisfied cause it's better than it was'.

for anyone who doesn't like this way of thinking; always remember that the only reason you have padding on your chair and air conditioning in your car is because some people out there always strive to improve on things.

Good... Finally we are getting to same wavelength, but I still think that your suggestions aren't the best way to make pk better Cona's suggestion about limiting PP's you can use on attributes is much better and could work in game too. But I really don't know how much should the limit be... Maybe 120 PP?

[conavar]

Cona's suggestion about limiting PP's you can use on attributes is much better and could work in game too. But I really don't know how much should the limit be... Maybe 120 PP?

 

After a quick rough calc I would say 120 is to low, and I would be more inclined to go 150 (wether thats 150 total or 150 extra on top of starting pp's to make total 174, not sure which is best).

Also maybe someone who trains yeti/Ac's etc can post the average pp's needed for them (not the best or perfect just the average)

 

But like I said more PK themed perks would be needed, only really about 7 true PK perks atm which isnt enough to give enough variation on char builds

[Miiks]

Cona's suggestion about limiting PP's you can use on attributes is much better and could work in game too. But I really don't know how much should the limit be... Maybe 120 PP?

 

After a quick rough calc I would say 120 is to low, and I would be more inclined to go 150 (wether thats 150 total or 150 extra on top of starting pp's to make total 174, not sure which is best).

Also maybe someone who trains yeti/Ac's etc can post the average pp's needed for them (not the best or perfect just the average)

 

But like I said more PK themed perks would be needed, only really about 7 true PK perks atm which isnt enough to give enough variation on char builds

Yea after thinking 120 is too low, but IMO 150 is too high... So maybe 130-140 could be good? And I don't think we need more perks, because everyone would take TINF or NMT anyway Or then they should be reaally good perks

 

But you could make own thread for this idea, so we would get more conversationg about this thing and see what others thinks about it

[bigkav]

as it stands i still think cap is to low, maybe making it higher? 56 max or 60 max, i mean 100 was ridiculous, but 56-64 imo is much better

as for Osomn if you got the GC's for it good for you, last one i saw sold for 1mgc then the guy who bought it got locked.. lol

 

-liam

[conavar]

as it stands i still think cap is to low, maybe making it higher? 56 max or 60 max, i mean 100 was ridiculous, but 56-64 imo is much better

 

-liam

 

lol Korrode's going love you

 

 

but back to topic

 

as for Osomn if you got the GC's for it good for you, last one i saw sold for 1mgc then the guy who bought it got locked.. lol

 

Yeah maybe draining 150 mana is a bit much post cap and could be lowered but its still livable, a pain but livable and they are not that common to be a major problem Imo

Edited October 23, 2008 by conavar

[bigkav]

for someone that can afford hydro pp's, its either 2 nexus for 1mgc; 2 PPs for 1.5m, or special wep's, and wouldnt take long at serping yeti's all day...

 

EDIT: the only problem is finding someone to sell the special item, and iirc radu was going to put in an instance where you could kill mob's towards getting a special armor or wep.

Edited October 23, 2008 by bigkav

[Spidi]

PP cap? Its like a/d cap. And whats about +130 or +150 o/a? Should they start manu or craft instant a/d? Its not fair, too late for it.

[bigkav]

PP cap? Its like a/d cap. And whats about +130 or +150 o/a? Should they start manu or craft instant a/d? Its not fair, too late for it.

 

Life isn't fair; and no to the PP cap no way, make the attrib cap higher would be better solution.

[Miiks]

Me and cona were talking about PPs used for attributes. You can use let's say 150 pp to attributes and then use other PPs to something else (nexuses, perks...)

 

Damn I'm failing with writing now.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Miiks

[Spidi]

But why? Its not fair because they have more pps in attributes than u?

[conavar]

But why? Its not fair because they have more pps in attributes than u?

 

Actually it was just an alternative idea to korrode's, " remove pp buying and soft reset the players ", it was a less drastic option, but personally the whole pickpoint buying debate doesnt worry me, Im happy how it is... but instead of just flaming like some do, I thought i suggest a differant option

[Kidberg]

What you guys are trying to do is make everyone equal. Different pkers have different strategies. You cant put a limit on attributes. (I mean you could but...) Just because different people have a different build than you that may work better doesnt mean you have to limit them. The whole point of this thread is trying to make every pker equal. Wtf? If you want that fights are going to be long and numbers are going to be the biggest threat.

 

I agree that a/d should be the best factor but imo its ok to have someone ~5-10 levels lower than you (maybe more) that can pwn your ass. Just because they have not trained quite as much as you doesnt mean its not fair they can beat you. They have a better build or strategy of pk and thats what makes them better.

 

Special weapons/armor I think is fine the way they are. And htf do you guys get that 150 is too much post cap? Before cap everyone was putting pps in phys/coord and not will/vit. Not many people had a lot of mana especially 150. Now it is very possible that they do with caps. So I dont see the big problem. If you dont like osmn or jsoc, dont fight the people that have them. Simple solution.