Do not delete 'problematic' threads

[vytukas]

There was a recent thread in abuse section depicting issues between the lead developer and some players. Apparently, that thread got deleted.

On that thread, I've even supported Entropy, so I'm no biased "dissident".

 

But is it really a good solution to delete it? In that thread, some players accused moderators of hiding and covering up previous incidents as well. Now it will be one more point to remember for them. More anger.

 

Wouldn't it be better to present problems in the game society instead of trying to escape from them? And by recognizing problems, improve ourselves.

I know one can point me that in other ("competing" ) games, forums are polished even more to look perfect. But so are newspapers in North Korea. I believe one of the strong points of EL is communication between the developers and the players. Even if it's not perfect, it's much better than none.

 

I suggest resurrecting the mentioned thread, if possible (maybe cleaned from some flames and Mexican drama, but still presenting the topic); and do not delete similar threads in the future.

[Aislinn]

But is it really a good solution to delete it? In that thread, some players accused moderators of hiding and covering up previous incidents as well. Now it will be one more point to remember for them. More anger.

You say incidents plural. Maybe you can elaborate?

And while you do so, can you tell us why something that may or may not have happened probably a good 3 years ago with someone who is not even here anymore would have ANY bearing on EL life today?

Oh, and why it is anybody's business other than the people who were involved?

Shall we post any transgression or mistake or outburst YOU may or may not have EVER made publicly for all to see and judge and ridicule? Only based on heresay?

 

I don't get it, what are you trying to accomplish here really?

 

I would like to also point out that the proper procedure for issues with/about mods and moderation are to be privately discussed with me, Roja, or Entropy. I suspect you and the rest of the playerbase would expect the same courtesy in return if a mod had a problem with you (generic "you").

 

In my opinion, that thread you are referring to should NEVER have been started. The original topic poster should have sent a private message to entropy, as well as the rest of the people who had objections. Most likely that is why it was deleted.

[vytukas]

In my opinion, that thread you are referring to should NEVER have been started. The original topic poster should have sent a private message to entropy, as well as the rest of the people who had objections. Most likely that is why it was deleted.

In theory, yes, maybe.

In reality player felt offended in public, all players saw the offending post. So it automatically became the subject of public discussions, if not on official EL forums, then on unofficial ones and on other communication media. In reality, moderation IS a topic of public discussion, whether you like it or not.

Now, several players and even developers left the game because of incident.

I really do not blame Entropy. I have also insulted people worse than that, also not on purpose. We are all humans, it happens. I believe an open discussion would have resulted a better result, hence the suggestion.

 

I don't get it, what are you trying to accomplish here really?

I only proposed a more open way of dealing with similar problems; if you think I'm wrong, just don't implement it. Same as with all suggestions.

[Aislinn]

1. You still haven't answered why at least 1 issue from a VERY long time ago involving someone that most people here don't even know, should be resurrected.

 

2. People can claim morals and principles all they want, when the simple fact is that Entropy is the same today as he was the day EL opened to the public. Funny these people didn't feel abused enough THEN to leave when these incidents happened, only when their friends/guildmates are the "target". I don't think anybody blames them, but let's call it what it is.

 

3. We are not running a tabloid TV show here, not all dirty laundry should be public, if it does not affect everyone else.

 

Edit: Whatever happens on unofficial forums is just that, unofficial. We will not cater to that, nor should we.

[conavar]

1. You still haven't answered why at least 1 issue from a VERY long time ago involving someone that most people here don't even know, should be resurrected.

 

To my understanding of the original post Vytukas was/is asking for the recent thread from a few days back to be unlocked, not one from 3+ years ago ( I maybe wrong )

 

 

2. People can claim morals and principles all they want, when the simple fact is that Entropy is the same today as he was the day EL opened to the public. Funny these people didn't feel abused enough THEN to leave when these incidents happened, only when their friends/guildmates are the "target". I don't think anybody blames them, but let's call it what it is

.

 

Sure you dont read UO forums ? because thats my viewpoint ( but a lot more politely put than I did )

 

 

note: Cant be asked to search atm but didnt we recently have a big debate about language ingame and on forums ?

 

edit: After seeing a copy of the conversation between Radu and players on chan 6 last night, to me the situation seems to have sorted itself out maturely by all involved.So in this case imo its better to let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Future problematic posts should be dealt with case by case , if they bring anything constructive to the table, then yup leave them. if not delete them its no biggy imo

Edited June 5, 2008 by conavar

[vytukas]

To my understanding of the original post Vytukas was/is asking for the recent thread from a few days back to be unlocked, not one from 3+ years ago ( I maybe wrong )

 

True. That's what I meant. I really don't suggest to dig up the old problems from 3 years ago

As for the recent thread, it may even be locked, since a lot has been discussed. But NOT deleted. Same for future discussions.

 

Of course if posts are meaningless flamebait like "game iz g3tting gay,, ent suxx" they should be deleted. But if people just express their civilised opinions, that should not be deleted. As I said, I am aware other commercial games clean forums even more, but nevertheless I suggest a more open discussion model for EL.

[Roja]

But is it really a good solution to delete it? ........

 

Wouldn't it be better to present problems in the game society instead of trying to escape from them?

 

We tried that once. It was one of the worst mistakes we've ever made in the history of this game...In fact I'd say it was in fact THE worst.

There are reasons why we-and every other online game out there!(that I am aware of and yes I did check)-do not allow such posts on the forums.

 

The main reason is because no matter what you say, no matter what proof you offer or how many times you've explained yourself, people will still believe whatever they want to believe. It's an endless cycle, and all we end up doing is wasting SO much time pointlessly arguing with these people.

 

So no, something like that will never happen again. It's in our rules and will not be changed.

[Entropy]

Ok, here is the deal:

There is a rule in the forums that moderation stuff MUST be handled in private. I am not talking about this post, I am talking about the previous post that started this whole drama. Another rule is that criticism should be constructive. Yes, that's not always the case, we all do or say stupid things every once in a while, but that thread was mostly pure garbage, and it turned into a flamefest.

 

Another things is that people should NOT stick their nose where it does not belong. Only the king of fucktards and unwise person sees a conflict that doesn't involve them, then they get involved and then feel offended when they get punched. And if some people feel so offended by me, they can just GTFO leave. If they feel that their friends should know why they are leaving, then they should contact them in private and that's it. We do not wash our dirty clothes in public, yes?