New spell

[Aislinn]

Does Smite Summoned only work on [edit]stone summoned[/edit] creatures?

Sure but it doesn't turn them against you or remove your "control", it only damages them a bit and they can be healed right back up as well.

 

Ugh you edited your post, I was answering to "does smite summoned only work on summoned creatures".

 

Smite summoned was made before we had summoning stones, not sure what you mean by your question...

 

Also any pker has the chance to defend against a summoner or a mage...they still need to be in the pk map and what are the odds they will also have huge a/d/p/c as well? Lots of nexii are needed for summoning these creatures, they stand just as good a chance of being pk'd first as anybody else, before the summons or spells are cast, as well as after...

[LabRat]

The spell can be shielded against, and there is nothing to stop you casting the Steal Summoned spell yourself to regain control of the animal.

 

Strategy, an essence drain and barefaced cheek in one easy spell.

 

I do like a lot of the suggestions in this thread it has to be said

[Aislinn]

The spell can be shielded against, and there is nothing to stop you casting the Steal Summoned spell yourself to regain control of the animal.

Does the pker have to cast a spell to reverse a spell that nullified his own a/d? I can't see the fairness in this for a summoner. Show me the spell that takes away an opponent's a/d and p/c and gives it to the caster and the fighter has to cast a spell to get his own fighting ability back.

[Alia]

Show me the spell that takes away an opponent's a/d and p/c and gives it to the caster and the fighter has to cast a spell to get his own fighting ability back.

 

I'm not sure what do you mean by "show me". Yes, there is no such spell in this game, but it doesn't

mean it is not usual thing in rpg games.

 

But actually, spells of this sort work a bit different from what is suggested here:

 

1. Effect is temporary (after some time drained/absorbed stats and charmed/stolen summons will

return to their owners)

 

2. Owners can return them back earlier: but not by casting the same spell (return something you own

is not the same as get something you don't own). Instead such spells are called

something like "dispel magic" and are much cheaper.

[Usl]

Just to clarify: the mechanism I was proposing was a test between magic/charm of the caster vs. summoning/charm of the target, also influenced by the summon level of the creature summoned.

 

For example, (2*magic+3*charm) vs. (2*summoning+5*charm+creaturelvl).

 

The choice is not random, it opens a number of interesting scenarios:

• pure mage vs. real summoner: no chance, the summoner has higher charm
  
• pure mage vs. stone summoner: probably works, a stone summer has little charm
  
• mage/summoner vs. real summoner: could work, based on relative levels
  
• etc.
  

For example, consider a summoner with summoning 62 and charm 6 (such a summoner would be around #15 in summoning), and a mage with magic 80 and charm 4 (around #15 in magic). The contest would be (mage vs. summoner) 172 vs. 154+lvl, meaning the mage would have his fair chance assuming control up to snakes, with decreasing probability up to gargoyles, but not much beyond that.

 

On the other hand, the same mage vs. a mid-level stone summoner/PKer (say, summoning 18 and charm 4) would end up at 172 vs. 56+lvl, i.e. he/she could assume control of essentially anything.

 

Now, the exact formulas might be discussed at will, but the important points are: (1) magic vs. summoning, (2) charm vs. charm, (3) the higher level the creature, the more difficult is to steal it.

This also avoids the need to distinguish between creatures summoned via stones or in the traditional way: what is important is who summoned them, not how. Thus, summon stones for a summoner would be just a way of deferring actual summoning, but with no other disadvantage. Summon stones for non-summoners would be weaker than they are now (but only against mages who have additionally invested PPs in charm, exactly for this purpose).

 

As for stealing dragons: to summon one of these pets, one needs summon level around 80, so the summoner score is in excess of 240: it would take a mage with Magic 120+ and a fair charm to attempt control of the creature (not to mention the requirement of Animal nexus 6 to actually get control, rather than just detaching it from the summoner), not someone you would encounter while queuing for your daily ogre spawn...

 

Contrary to what others have posted, I see this as a way of making summons in the hands of summoners more powerful (i.e., more surely controlled) than summons in the hands of non-summoners, so it is a way to improve the value of the summoning skill, not a detriment to it!

[Wizzy]

Nice idea

[Fedora]

On the other hand, the same mage vs. a mid-level stone summoner/PKer (say, summoning 18 and charm 4) would end up at 172 vs. 56+lvl, i.e. he/she could assume control of essentially anything.

...

Thus, summon stones for a summoner would be just a way of deferring actual summoning, but with no other disadvantage. Summon stones for non-summoners would be weaker than they are now (but only against mages who have additionally invested PPs in charm, exactly for this purpose).

...

Contrary to what others have posted, I see this as a way of making summons in the hands of summoners more powerful (i.e., more surely controlled) than summons in the hands of non-summoners, so it is a way to improve the value of the summoning skill, not a detriment to it!

 

I have to disagree. It seems a way to give a mage some power he shouldnt have and to annoy the already depressed summoner... summoners may be masochists, but summons have no def, they lose hp...should they be stolen too?

 

And, reading between the lines, this spell seems effective only against the 14th hour newbie, highlighting again that the problem is in the mechanism of stones. Personally i see a summon stone like a ring: a device that cast some magic when used. The ring teleports you, the stone calls a monster from the astral plane (wherever it is). Stop. Then, controlling the pet should be up to you (i.e. your summon lvl/charm).

 

As for charm and pkers, with the cap, a medium pker will have enough charm (now both instinct and vitality are desiderable) to prevent a mage from stealing.

 

Last, i'm against this spell for a matter of principles: why someone who hasnt seriously leveled one of the hardest skill in the game, should be able to steal my item? (yes, an item, since i mixed it and spent rare ingrs for it, not counting nexi). On the same plane would be a spell to steal a freshly mixe CoL from the inv of a crafter...

[Aislinn]

Show me the spell that takes away an opponent's a/d and p/c and gives it to the caster and the fighter has to cast a spell to get his own fighting ability back.

I'm not sure what do you mean by "show me". Yes, there is no such spell in this game, but it doesn't

mean it is not usual thing in rpg games.

Sorry, yes I meant here in EL, not elsewhere.

 

 

I have to disagree. It seems a way to give a mage some power he shouldnt have and to annoy the already depressed summoner... summoners may be masochists, but summons have no def, they lose hp...should they be stolen too?

Agreed, although for that matter not just pure mages...most high level pkers have really strong magic skills as well.

 

Last, i'm against this spell for a matter of principles: why someone who hasnt seriously leveled one of the hardest skill in the game, should be able to steal my item? (yes, an item, since i mixed it and spent rare ingrs for it, not counting nexi). On the same plane would be a spell to steal a freshly mixe CoL from the inv of a crafter...

Agreed again. Yet another good analogy.

[Usl]

I have to disagree. It seems a way to give a mage some power he shouldnt have and to annoy the already depressed summoner... summoners may be masochists, but summons have no def, they lose hp...should they be stolen too?

Not at all; as you point out,

And, reading between the lines, this spell seems effective only against the 14th hour newbie, highlighting again that the problem is in the mechanism of stones.

this spell would be effective against stone summoners (those who simply buy their stones at the NPC), much much less against real summoners.

 

Last, i'm against this spell for a matter of principles: why someone who hasnt seriously leveled one of the hardest skill in the game, should be able to steal my item?

Ehi, it is a spell! Why should one who hasn't walked for miles be able to teleport? Why should someone who has not spent months in arenas be able to harm? Why should someone who is not even a snake be able to poison?

Summoners are able to cause damage without levelling a/d, I see nothing wrong if mages can use such a spell without levelling summoning. Of course, a mage who specializes in this spell allocating points to charm, will lack points in rationality or other aspects, and would be weaker opponents for other classes.

 

Having said this, I am not pressing for such a spell to be adopted: just clarifying my first post, since it seems that it was not very clear in the beginning and got misinterpreted by some.

[Aislinn]

Ehi, it is a spell! Why should one who hasn't walked for miles be able to teleport? Why should someone who has not spent months in arenas be able to harm? Why should someone who is not even a snake be able to poison?

Summoners are able to cause damage without levelling a/d, I see nothing wrong if mages can use such a spell without levelling summoning. Of course, a mage who specializes in this spell allocating points to charm, will lack points in rationality or other aspects, and would be weaker opponents for other classes.

Again you are taking a very expensive "item" by stealing it, that the summoner spent a LOT of gc for RARE items on, and nexus on, and leveled up the skill under the worst skill conditions ingame (until only recently and even then mid-level anyway) in order to . The summoned creature is the only reward for all that. You can't compare a teleport spell that doesn't hurt anyone else or render their efforts useless to this.

[Wizzy]

The way I see it, is not having a mage steal my summon, but a summoner stealing a fighters stone summon. could be accumulation between summon level and charm

[draavell]

It seems that this would only be used in PK situations, limited to PK areas/server. So there would be no need to worry about your summons in normal operations of them, summoning for exp. or helping kill monsters.

I'm not sure what you think "normal operations" would be. Why do we level in the first place? Just to summon a giant in votd and have it follow us around until it dies? To finally be able to summon these creatures just so somebody can steal it away from us? Again, why bother? Summoning will go right back to being a skill with no purpose for the wealthy bored folks.

 

 

If someone is summoning rabbits, deer..whatever small level in great quantities they seem to be leveling up their skill in summoning, they are not in a PK situation, then stealing would'nt be usefull.

If someone summons a giant in VOTD thats their perogative but it would have been better used to help kill Yeti, Chims, etc...

If someone summons in PK it is intended to help kill another person, the other person has no defense against that, unless they are strong enough to kill the summoned or summon a creature themselves, if not that is where defensive spells against summons would work out.

I dont see how this is going to ruin a summoner, just a little flavor in PK, where they have to worry about someone that is better at magic/summoning stealing their summoned creature, and still only be a chance.

[Raz]

As it stands summoning is not a fighting skill.

 

I doubt anyone in a PK situation ever summons from ings - rather than from a stone. (iirc in fact it is impossible during a fight).

 

Summoners lvl on making stones - which are then used by all and sundry in pk. I cannot remember the last time that I actually summoned a creature from ings, rather than making a stone.

 

There needs to be a greater advantage to a summoned from skill creature, as opposed to summoned from stone. At present anyone can go buy a giant stone and fire it off in KF and have fun - without training summoning at all.

 

(there are also a whole load of creatures, which with the rise in cost of ingredients will probably never be summoned - eg clops and above)

 

This is one possibility for making training summoning worth while...

Others include:-

Reducing ings cost of summoned (not stone) creatures

Raising stone prices for high end monsters

Giving summoned monsters back their def.

[neildog]

I said it before and I'll say it again - it should be both a combination of summoning skill and Magic.

 

Also Raz is right - the sooner you can summon during a fight from ingreds the better but the mix button doesn't work. Need to find a different way to program this but I guess its pretty low priority.

[freeone3000]

I don't see why we can't mix in combat. Sure, it'll break realism, but then again, so's able to do damage by waving your hands around (and for that matter, researching while fighting). It'll also allow summoning while in combat.