Tweak True Sight potions

[agis29]

So, you'd agree that basing experience on real a/d and not on penalized a/d would be OK, correct?

That would remove the benefit of TS Pot failure sufi is talking about.

 

 

Not at all. The way that things in game are now, penalty should be increased. I think i was clear.

I would agree with you if players couldnt remove p/c with stones or if they couldnt buy pps.

None should be a genious to understand that the distance between players is very high.

If ts pots penalty will be removed then that distance will become even higher.

If the a/d penalty will be substituted with a might penalty then top players wont only have huge p/c but they will level up a/d faster too.

Also by slowing the progress of players that are 80's,90's means less p/c for them cause only yetis can make you rich enough to buy 50 hydro bars.

Edited August 6, 2007 by agis29

[Ermabwed]

Can you explain again, what part of getting more experience because of a penalty is a penalty, please. I am afraid, I am somewhat slow and don't get that part

[agis29]

Can you explain again, what part of getting more experience because of a penalty is a penalty, please. I am afraid, I am somewhat slow and don't get that part

 

 

I said that the a/d penalty should be increased. From -19 a/d it must be -29 a/d or -39 a/d.

TS pots have an a/d penalty.

And a/d penalty means more exp per hour.

Otherwise players that are 90's now will need years to reach the a/d of others that are 130 a/d +.

And of course a fluffie or a feros trainer cant afford hydro bars and add p/c.

Plz tell me that u understood me

[sufi]

Can you explain again, what part of getting more experience because of a penalty is a penalty, please. I am afraid, I am somewhat slow and don't get that part

 

 

I said that the a/d penalty should be increased. From -19 a/d it must be -29 a/d or -39 a/d.

TS pots have an a/d penalty.

And a/d penalty means more exp per hour.

Otherwise players that are 90's now will need years to reach the a/d of others that are 130 a/d +.

And of course a fluffie or a feros trainer cant afford hydro bars and add p/c.

Plz tell me that u understood me

 

None of this addresses Erma's question. Do you drink inv pots in order to get poisoned? Do you eat toads in order to get poisoned? So why would you drink ts pots in order to lower your a/d unless it was a benefit rather than a penalty? The answer is, you drink them for the benefit of a lowered a/d as you astonishingly acknowledge in your reply because it increases your exp. Should we make all pots give hidden benefits when they fail so we can all be 150/150 in a few weeks? How about making harvesting pots fail but when they do, they double your manu exp? Silly idea? Of course it is...but it's no different in practice than having a/d exp boost when ts pots fail...none at all. As it is now, there is no penalty for ts pot failure...the so-called penalties you list above are either highly debatable or trivial compared to the benefit otherwise no one would use ts pots to train. The logic of this is crystal clear and I cannot see how further input from me can make it clearer, therefore, I'm done.

[Ermabwed]

I said that the a/d penalty should be increased. From -19 a/d it must be -29 a/d or -39 a/d.

TS pots have an a/d penalty.

And a/d penalty means more exp per hour.

And that's where it's not a penalty anymore but a significant benefit. Of course the a/d penalty is indeed a penalty in PK but that's not the point here as TS is used to lower a/d for training not at all for it's original purpose (to gain true sight for a while) I'd say. Thus players, who should by their real a/d be on chims and up (or whatever jump they're avoiding), stay on fluffies/feros, thus crowding spawns even further that are under pressure from players moving up to fluffies/feros prematurely already (because of expensive gear etc.).

Otherwise players that are 90's now will need years to reach the a/d of others that are 130 a/d +.

Just as it took them years to reach those levels

And of course a fluffie or a feros trainer cant afford hydro bars and add p/c.

Well, they don't need (that much) p/c I don't know what's recommended these days, but it used to be 32/52 for fluffies... And if they wouldn't keep resetting like there's no tomorrow they'd have the pickpoints or close enough to raise p/c for chims, imho (a/d 105 would get one roughly oa 120, that's 120 pps, should be enough (or close enough) to move to chims and one wouldn't even need negative perks, could save those for next 'jump').

Plz tell me that u understood me

Well, the problem was more that I couldn't believe my eyes (still is, too).

Anyways, as an allrounder at oa 134 and lots of pps in nexi I was hoping to benefit severely from this 'design flaw' in the future, so I am with masterpiter

 

Let me just propose a different approach to this problem: how about giving TS Pots a real negative effect for failure and add a potion that provides the negative positive effect of TS failure at an appropriate cost with a negative effect of its own? (Potion of Weakness, -10 to a/d, 20% chance to burn your underwear (can't wear armor for 25 minutes), ingredients cost about 600gc)

[sufi]

Let me just propose a different approach to this problem: how about giving TS Pots a real negative effect for failure and add a potion that provides the negative positive effect of TS failure at an appropriate cost with a negative effect of its own? (Potion of Weakness, -10 to a/d, 20% chance to burn your underwear (can't wear armor for 25 minutes), ingredients cost about 600gc)

 

lol

[agis29]

If someone doesnt understand that being -19 isnt a penalty this isnt my problem.

 

Armours have accurasy penalties and critical to hit-damage penalties and provide better exp. Lets remove those penalties too cause its an advantage

 

If someone doesnt understand also that all players that are in top were using ts pots too that isnt my problem either.

 

Worst of all some players havent realised yet that the game benneffits only a few players.

And they are making suggestions to benneffit them even more cause they are 90's and they have no idea what might is

 

Finally lets slow down all players from 60-90 and lets give everything to players with 130 a/d +.

 

I am bitching i know but i insist because i am talking with many players in game.

And many players want to say all those things but they are afraid that top will pk them.

Edited August 6, 2007 by agis29

[Guest ohmygod]

The penalty is mainly for those without the magic lvl required to cast the spell.

 

I would challange both erm and surfi to enter a pk map (kf) with negged a/d from these pots and tell me this is not a penalty.

 

Also what is poison penalty from toadstool if there is antidote potion in storage? This is just cheap way around spending 3 PP for IEDP perk.

Edited August 6, 2007 by ohmygod

[korrode]

Wow.

 

There are some trippas on this thread.

 

@omg

Whats PK got to do with this?

as erma and sufi pointed out; the positive effect of TS pot failure is GREAT for training a/d.

The negative effect it has in PK is nothing compared to the positive effect there is for training.

 

@agis

:omg:

I dont even know where to begin.

Having TS pots fails reduce a/d an unlimited amount is a massively bad idea.

Entropy wants all monsters in the game used for training, and i personally agree with him. Your suggestion would have everyone from 80's a/d and up training on fluffs.

 

@sufi and erma

I agree that the effect of TS pots failing needs to be changed, -10 to coord sounds good to me, and i can still see something good about this, but not way good awesome like the current failing effect (-19 to a/d)

 

@erma

pr0 idea with a potion that lowers a/d as the intended effect; will also keep my potioning girl happy

 

 

 

More than half of dp arena fighters use ts to be able to atk so if you really want that arena empty find a way to stop them reduce a/d. The consequences? They will have to go to WS/NC arena where they will get pwned so less ppl will PK see what I mean? Som1 has a/d 41/41 he only passed arena limits with 1 lvl but he is still qualified as a dp arena fighter if he goes in another place he dies. So I totally disagree with this idea.

Solution HERE

 

DCW = still worse exp than fluff.

Yep, as i said, if DCW and fluffy are gonna have the same health then they also have to have the same re-spawn time, then DCW will be worthwhile training on.

I dont care if fluff respawn is increased or DCW respawn decreased, whatever, but they gotta be the same.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Korrode

[masterpiter]

Finally lets slow down all players from 60-90 and lets give everything to players with 130 a/d +.

I am bitching i know but i insist because i am talking with many players in game.

And many players want to say all those things but they are afraid that top will pk them.

The funniest thing in this thread is:

Look who suggested it and who likes that idea, not ppl with 130a/d, not pkers, not players who lost their teeths on a/d training(they might benefit from that idea since it will slow down a/d lvling and make way harder for newbies to reach high a/d) but the ones who "chase" top a/d or ppl that dont train a/d at all

 

We can disscus here long who is right and who is wrong but i think its best to w8 for Radu's come back and let him decide what to do

 

mp

[agis29]

@korrode Who told u about unlimited reduce of a/d? Dont understand what u want to understand.

I talked about -29 a/d.

 

-10 coord?rofl

You have no idea what -10 coords means. With -10 coords penalty i will be able to train on fluffies untill 200 a/d and get pr0 exp.

If sufi and the rest had an idea about coords they would say that ts pots SHOULD HAVE A PENALTY THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE CHANCES TO AVOID A HIT. NOT A COORDS PENALTY

 

Also with -10 coords top players can slaughter yetis for gc and buy nexuses and train again on feros and fluffies and get pr0 exp too. Better understand basic things about coords and physique and talk later.

The ideal for me is to have a -10 coords penalty. I ll get 400 k per hour on fluffies and probably more on feros.

I ll add vitality also to get more money. But i am not thinking only what best for me but best for rest of player.

This suggestion is afecting in a negative way potioners, manuers and of course coord removal stones cause none will buy them.

 

The truth between this suggestion is this.

" i added a lot of coords and i get no exp even with ts pots. I am a smartass and i dont want to train on dc.

I am lazy to reset and i dont want to buy coords removal stones

So i ll make a suggestion about ts pots cause thats the best for me"

 

Also before some people talk about fighting and a/d they should enter a pk map first or they should train in pk maps like i do with -19 a/d or train on dc like me. I never saw sufi training in tahraji,improglio islands,thelinor etc. And once you care about dc stop training on fluffies with ts pots and train on dc.

Edited August 7, 2007 by agis29

[jowwow]

...

The truth between this suggestion is this.

" i added a lot of coords and i get no exp even with ts pots. I am a smartass and i dont want to train on dc.

I am lazy to reset and i dont want to buy coords removal stones

So i ll make a suggestion about ts pots cause thats the best for me"

...

 

 

sufi

Main Attributes

Physique: 28/28

Coordination: 52/52

Reasoning: 4/4

Will: 24/24

Instinct: 4/4

Vitality: 4/4

Cross Attributes

Might: 40/40

Matter: 26/26

Toughness: 16/16

Charm: 4/4

Reaction: 28/28

Rationality: 14/14

Dexterity: 28/28

Ethereality: 14/14

Skills

Overall: 111/118

Attack: 92/92

Defense: 97/97

Magic: 56/56

Harvest: 80/80

Manufacture: 53/53

Alchemy: 83/83

Potion: 20/20

Summoning: 18/18

Crafting: 53/53

Engineering: 22/22

 

PK Info

PK Score: 0.577191

PK Fights: 2

PK Won: 2

PK Lost: 0

 

Copied straight from the Players Online page. Your average fluff trainer has 52coord (or thereabouts) so maybe you should do a lil research before you post crap out of your ass and throw accusations at people.

[agis29]

...

The truth between this suggestion is this.

" i added a lot of coords and i get no exp even with ts pots. I am a smartass and i dont want to train on dc.

I am lazy to reset and i dont want to buy coords removal stones

So i ll make a suggestion about ts pots cause thats the best for me"

...

 

 

sufi

Main Attributes

Physique: 28/28

Coordination: 52/52

Reasoning: 4/4

Will: 24/24

Instinct: 4/4

Vitality: 4/4

Cross Attributes

Might: 40/40

Matter: 26/26

Toughness: 16/16

Charm: 4/4

Reaction: 28/28

Rationality: 14/14

Dexterity: 28/28

Ethereality: 14/14

Skills

Overall: 111/118

Attack: 92/92

Defense: 97/97

Magic: 56/56

Harvest: 80/80

Manufacture: 53/53

Alchemy: 83/83

Potion: 20/20

Summoning: 18/18

Crafting: 53/53

Engineering: 22/22

 

PK Info

PK Score: 0.577191

PK Fights: 2

PK Won: 2

PK Lost: 0

 

Copied straight from the Players Online page. Your average fluff trainer has 52coord (or thereabouts) so maybe you should do a lil research before you post crap out of your ass and throw accusations at people.

 

NOOB LEARN FIRST THAT WITH 52 COORDS U LL GET NO EXP AFTER 100'S. THERE ARE PLAYERS AT 110-150 A/D THAT HAVE 22-40 COORDS MAXIMUM.

I am talking here about players who care about maximum exp and dont pk at all like sufi.

And his stats are showing that he cant train on dc or feros so he wants fluffie spawns for him.

A suggestion for him.

The forums are not to support your friends. Why dont u mention anything for all the rest things i wrote?

Edited August 7, 2007 by agis29

[Guest ohmygod]

nvm

Edited August 7, 2007 by ohmygod

[jowwow]

...

The truth between this suggestion is this.

" i added a lot of coords and i get no exp even with ts pots. I am a smartass and i dont want to train on dc.

I am lazy to reset and i dont want to buy coords removal stones

So i ll make a suggestion about ts pots cause thats the best for me"

...

 

 

sufi

Main Attributes

Physique: 28/28

Coordination: 52/52

Reasoning: 4/4

Will: 24/24

Instinct: 4/4

Vitality: 4/4

Cross Attributes

Might: 40/40

Matter: 26/26

Toughness: 16/16

Charm: 4/4

Reaction: 28/28

Rationality: 14/14

Dexterity: 28/28

Ethereality: 14/14

Skills

Overall: 111/118

Attack: 92/92

Defense: 97/97

Magic: 56/56

Harvest: 80/80

Manufacture: 53/53

Alchemy: 83/83

Potion: 20/20

Summoning: 18/18

Crafting: 53/53

Engineering: 22/22

 

PK Info

PK Score: 0.577191

PK Fights: 2

PK Won: 2

PK Lost: 0

 

Copied straight from the Players Online page. Your average fluff trainer has 52coord (or thereabouts) so maybe you should do a lil research before you post crap out of your ass and throw accusations at people.

 

NOOB LEARN FIRST THAT WITH 52 COORDS U LL GET NO EXP AFTER 100'S. THERE ARE PLAYERS AT 110-150 A/D THAT HAVE 22-40 COORDS MAXIMUM.

And his stats are showing that he cant train on dc so he wants fluffie spawns for him.

A suggestion for him.

 

If sufi (and all the other ebul ppl conspiring to destroy TS pots) wont "GET EXP AFTER 100'S", then why would they suggest to remove TS pots... it makes no sense.

[agis29]

Sufi suggestion was to to replace the a/d penalty with a coords penalty. Something much much worst.

And altough thats the best for me i disagree.

 

Someone to the new thread about fighting should explain what a/d means and how might,dexterity etc are affecting a player because it seems that some players (even fluffie trainers ) still think that the might of physique is something different than the might of coords and that a/d makes you stronger.

Edited August 7, 2007 by agis29

[jowwow]

Someone to the new thread about fighting should explain what a/d means and how might,dexterity etc are affecting a player because it seems that some players (even fluffie trainers ) still think that the might of physique is something different than the might of coords and that a/d makes you stronger.

 

 

Seeing as you seem to know so much about it, im sure you you wont mind going and posting that for us less knowledgeable people

[agis29]

I overeacted (i am having a difficult day while working) so i want to apologise.

Anyway others can explain all those things better than me.

[jowwow]

I overeacted (i am having a difficult day while working) so i want to apologise.

Anyway others can explain all those things better than me.

 

Apology accepted.

[Vormavius]

There is another point about this suggestion, probably won't be a market for the TS Pots anymore.

[Ermabwed]

There is another point about this suggestion, probably won't be a market for the TS Pots anymore.

They sell at 60gc to NPC, who needs the player market?

[Vormavius]

The NPC doesnt use the pot, he only buys it. I'm talking about players spend their gc to buy tsp to try the effect.

[Ermabwed]

The NPC doesnt use the pot, he only buys it. I'm talking about players spend their gc to buy tsp to try the effect.

Hmm, that means fighters have more money, because they don't have to buy ts pots (or they'll pay about the same for a "potion of weakness"), and potioners still get their money...

 

Anyways, I wanted to add the following to the discussion:

We've come to see that the current penalty isn't a penalty really as it gets you better experience, however, the proposed alternative (coordination drop penalty), would lead to the same according to agis29. So obviously we should be looking for real penalty associated with true sight potions. Trollson suggested a perception penalty which makes perfect sense I think, after all the potions affect your sight now as well, so a failure could as well. I think setting the penalty to reduce perception to zero is too severe (and doesn't stack either), so I'm suggesting to simply half the (current) perception upon TSP failure and have that be effective during the day as well. The effect could wear off by perhaps one per 3 minutes if food level is positive.

RP for the effect: with True sight you saw Mortos in Aluwen's bathing suit, you are temporarily blinded by the sight.

 

PS: I'd still like see an alternative that provides the effect of TSP failure as it is now (see my above post ), for purely selfish reasons

[korrode]

@korrode Who told u about unlimited reduce of a/d? Dont understand what u want to understand.

I talked about -29 a/d.

ok my bad i re-read your posts and u never said unlimited, u did say this tho:

I said that the a/d penalty should be increased. From -19 a/d it must be -29 a/d or -39 a/d.

So essentially what i said stands.

 

-10 coord?rofl

You have no idea what -10 coords means.

listen up n0... err, Agis. I've been playing RPGs for a LONG time. I understand exactly how every cross attribute in EL works. I've had big discussions with many high level fighters and #reset alot of times and tested things out for myself, first hand.

 

With -10 coords penalty i will be able to train on fluffies untill 200 a/d and get pr0 exp.

explain to me how being able to reduce your coord by 10 will get you 300k+ (u said "pr0") exp per/hr at 200 a/d on fluffys?!

 

Also with -10 coords top players can slaughter yetis for gc and buy nexuses and train again on feros and fluffies and get pr0 exp too. Better understand basic things about coords and physique and talk later.

we're talking about 10 coord here, not 50 coord or even 20 coord, just 10. I understand just fine, better than u do from what i'm seeing.

 

But i am not thinking only what best for me but best for rest of player.

I am thinking about what is best for the game as a whole. Your suggestion of increasing the amount of a/d TS pot fails can take off will put even more people on fluffys, u cant deny this. People should be spread out across the monsters. High a/d people should fight high a/d monsters. Ent has said he wants it to be real hard to get above 150 a/d, so he's made the exp at that level not great. It's how it is.

 

The truth between this suggestion is this.

" i added a lot of coords and i get no exp even with ts pots. I am a smartass and i dont want to train on dc.

I am lazy to reset and i dont want to buy coords removal stones

So i ll make a suggestion about ts pots cause thats the best for me"

well this doesnt apply to me.... but i dont deny the reason i wont mind being able to have -10 coord is for PK. I can have 10 more coord than what is optimal for my chosen monster (which will be a monster that is appropriate for my levels) and use TS pots to train but be a better PK'er when not -10 coord TS'd.

 

Also before some people talk about fighting and a/d they should enter a pk map first or they should train in pk maps like i do with -19 a/d or train on dc like me. I never saw sufi training in tahraji,improglio islands,thelinor etc. And once you care about dc stop training on fluffies with ts pots and train on dc.

Whats this got to do with it? I have trained in PK (feros in thelinor) but most people dont want to and never will. So your talking about a small minority. You certainly dont have the bulk or EL players in mind. Edited August 7, 2007 by Korrode

[agis29]

@Korrode. Look at masterpiter stats. He is 40 def levels higher than me. Because he has low coords he is able to train on fluffies at this level,get good exp using a crappy armour without a col. (i dont have any problem with mp btw-actually i admire players that use their brain).

I dont have to explain anything else if still some people dont get it.

Unlimited a/d penalty btw means -9999999999999999999999999999999999999 a/d penalty not -29 or -30.

200 a/d was an example. But with -10 coords its easy to train on fluffies and feros at least untill 150-160 def.

With low coords and without ts pots i still get good exp from fluffies.

 

Behind my bitching there are some things i am not exactly in mood to explain. But the game has changed a lot and some people havent realise those changes. You will understand them after a long long time when u ll reach 150 a/d and u will die with 1 hit from Luci and toomass and your items will get degraded at once. Even if they have the same a/d with you.

(i dont have any problems with those players too)

Edited August 7, 2007 by agis29