New Enterance :)

[Sir_Exeus]

the more the maryer xD

[Aislinn]

We're looking for quality, not quantity. (Although quantity can be nice, if it is quality )

 

We love to help new players, but this is not a mindless game, nor will it ever be. We help players learn to help themselves. The players who thrive, or even survive, this environment are the ones we want to attract. We are willing to sink only so low to attract people. We help, not play for.

 

 

 

And for those of you who don't know, or didn't search, we have already tried or discussed all of these suggestions.

[draegox]

This game is free, it will attrect many newb kids

 

Yes, but many of these kids, upon seeing that EL is so complex, will be discouraged and go off to play RunEscape or some other 'mindless' game. The ones who stick around are the ones that we want to stick around. IMO, IP is a great starting place. It keeps the more mature players in and turns many of the less mature players away. I think that most players would agree that this is a good system and does not need to be changed.

[kl4Uz]

Despite the fact, that there are many players who will always say this and that sucks and this and that game is better than EL, starting to play eternal lands IS hard. Although it has become better with the improved tutorial bot (healing capabilites) and many new features.

 

While I did read the info on the website back when I started and despite the fact that I was an experienced pc gamer, I had lots of trouble during my first few days in EL.

 

Now the game was a lot more buggy and less userfriendly than today, but even the way it is now, I doubt I would make my first few steps on my own without help. The newbie helpers and friendly players were the ones who helped me.

 

I don't know if this type of moderator or staff member still exists, but newbie helpers are way more effective than any NPC. If you get treated well by another human, you are much more likely to stay in an online world, than with people shouting 'n00b' at you.

[Aislinn]

I don't know if this type of moderator or staff member still exists, but newbie helpers are way more effective than any NPC. If you get treated well by another human, you are much more likely to stay in an online world, than with people shouting 'n00b' at you.

Absolutely. And this is something we are always working on and trying to improve.

[shallara]

When I started playing over two years ago, I did a silly thing... I actually read the main EL page. When I realized the complexity came hand in hand with freedom, I was enthralled. I wanted to learn more about how to live and learn in this world.... so I did an odd little thing... I READ. I searched. I was on dial up at the time, so during my 6 hour download (yes, thats what it was back then) I was reading every bit of everything I could find online about EL. Once in game, I found the encyclopedia. Back then there wasn't any 'Newbie FAQ' or intro to skills sections in there. The tutorial NPC didn't heal. I paid attention to what others were saying, I read, and I applied what I learned to my gameplay.

I probly didn't 'say' a word to anyone until I'd been playing for a solid week or more and knew enough to not seem the newb I was.

 

When I get asked for help, I instruct the newbie to the in game manual, and to the el-cel site, with the advice that nearly every question they have will be answered in one of those two places. If they continue n00b-like behavior, they are written off as the n00bs they are acting.

 

When my children wanted to play as well, they were given very strict instructions. I made sure they understood the rules, they understood how EL worked, and beyond all else, their EL lives are still under 'mom' power. When a 9 year old can play, chat, interact with friends, and learn to solve new character development problems on her own, using the tools provided, in my mind EL does *not* need to bend over backwards to cater to those that want and demand more.

[Sir_Exeus]

so wats the bottom line here? I doubt we are going to make a tutporial map. but are you going to make some minor changes to when you start?or leave the heck alone?

Edited July 6, 2007 by exeus101

[Aislinn]

so wats the bottom line here? I doubt we are going to make a tutporial map. but are you going to make some minor changes to when you start?or leave the heck alone?

Hmm did you actually read anything in this thread? We already had (and still have, just not accessable) a tutorial map and we do not want to use that concept anymore (a search also would have told you this). As to any other changes, we won't be doing what you suggested, no. That is not an improvement in our eyes. However at some point things might be tweaked, we are always looking at things that can be improved. The tutorial npc healing is one such new recent tweak. But we are not going to dumb down EL.

[conavar]

I dont think it matters how simple the tutorial is made, its a common fact that most young kids dont read rules/instructions for any game. wether its on a PC or there Xbox 360 they just want to pick up and play.

 

but like it has been so rightly pointed out EL is not a " pick up and play game" and neither should it be.El's communtity is as good as it is because it attracts older players.

 

Is there room for younger players. yes 100% but they should adapt to the game they are playing not vice versa

[kulysoft]

so wats the bottom line here? I doubt we are going to make a tutporial map. but are you going to make some minor changes to when you start?or leave the heck alone?

 

You might wanna try the french server for that tutorial map. http://www.landes-eternelles.com/index.php?op=edito If you have no problem with french language of course

[Aislinn]

Is there room for younger players. yes 100% but they should adapt to the game they are playing not vice versa

Couldn't have put it better myself. Absolutely positively this hits the nail right on the head.

[Nintenduh]

I think an in-game tutorial that would be cool.

 

What I would like to see is having a flashing red x(like the green step x) lead players to the tutorial NPC and The Wraith. Say for example, once you come out of the char creation map, having the red x flashing(within isometric sight) lead you to the east of beam. Once you are within 5-7 steps or so, the x moves eastward, eventually leading you to the tutorial NPC and Wraith.

 

Once you are within a few steps from the last flashing red x(within view of the tutorial NPC), It would display a colored message saying something like "To your north is The Wraith(you will get to know him well), to your south is the Tutorial NPC. If you are new to EL, go have a chat with the Tutorial NPC(right click until you get the caption cursor and click on him).".

 

That's rather crude but I think it would be helpful to even the oldest of players.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Nintenduh

[frogimus]

I rather like the "real person" players that sit at Beam and heal people and answer their questions.

[Nintenduh]

As would I. Not gonna happen 24/7 though.

[frogimus]

You would be surprised. Actually i've been at Beam at 2-3am my time and seen Eastern Europeans helping other EE's in their own language. Just as Americans, Canadians, Brazillians, etc are there to help their newbies during their waking hours.

 

By the way, this topic has been an enjoyable one. The debate has brought out a lot of interesting points.

[Nintenduh]

Even still, there are many people's questions that go unanswered.

 

I was a newb once too(as with everyone who plays often nowadays). I think it took me about 4 days to get off IP. "The boat does something?!?". That was before the Tut NPC was added.

 

I agree. Nothing is better then having an actual person lead you there. It wont always happen though.

 

I've seen it many times where people are like "WTF do I do in this game?!?!" at beam. Then they log out and never come back again.

 

Even people with the best of intentions are not at beam. Even if they are there, they are often AFK.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Nintenduh

[Aislinn]

I was a newb once too(as with everyone who plays often nowadays). I think it took me about 4 days to get off IP. "The boat does something?!?". That was before the Tut NPC was added.

That's called discovery. EL doesn't have a finish line, it's not a race, you don't have to know it all the first hour. Why doesn't anybody want to look around and discover things? The information IS readily available, even a day 1 newbie can mindlessly click the row of icons on the bottom of their screen and find the encyclopedia, stats window, find the f1 to see the chat, see the people asking questions in channel 1, see the people huddled around a guy called Tutorial NPC. It is not hard as it is now.

[Lexi]

Most people who want to actually try out a game (being it new) WILL explore it, I have done that with a few games before, and stuck with them for a few years.

 

Although when I was new, I joined to play with my mother, she was my guide, but she also made me figure out things for myself. There were times she wasn't there to help me out, so I had to figure things for myself (I often avoided channels, I wasn't much of a talker ).

 

It can be done, people have done it. Although it would be nice for an addition for new players, but it's not really needed. We all start out as newbies, don't we? How did we survive?

 

If the people that play now made it, why can't the people in the furture?

 

((Not against this idea, it could be helpful, but I wont be upset if it's not added).)

[Nintenduh]

I was a newb once too(as with everyone who plays often nowadays). I think it took me about 4 days to get off IP. "The boat does something?!?". That was before the Tut NPC was added.

That's called discovery. EL doesn't have a finish line, it's not a race, you don't have to know it all the first hour. Why doesn't anybody want to look around and discover things? The information IS readily available, even a day 1 newbie can mindlessly click the row of icons on the bottom of their screen and find the encyclopedia, stats window, find the f1 to see the chat, see the people asking questions in channel 1, see the people huddled around a guy called Tutorial NPC. It is not hard as it is now.

 

 

I knew IP like the back of my hand once I left Once I left, It was even better!

 

I've played videogames since I was 4(maybe younger... ask my folks, I dunno.. ).

 

It would be much better if people would have some sort of in-game tutorial.

 

Exploration is a given with MMO's. Just teach them how to explore

[frogimus]

The game I tried before EL (won't mention names in public) was one that u pulled your hair out over.

 

Everything had to be role-played.

 

The NPCs didn't give you a list of choices, you had to speak to them, over and over, until you hit on the correct word combination for them to respond.

 

Ask for help, or expect any? No! No! Thats spoiling the RP and discovery! How dare you ask!!

 

So I relished my newbie experience (and still do) on EL. People will help, and are not penalized for helping.

[ttlanhil]

I think an in-game tutorial that would be cool.

 

What I would like to see is having a flashing red x(like the green step x) lead players to the tutorial NPC and The Wraith. Say for example, once you come out of the char creation map, having the red x flashing(within isometric sight) lead you to the east of beam. Once you are within 5-7 steps or so, the x moves eastward, eventually leading you to the tutorial NPC and Wraith.

That's the sort of thing I think should be available as a tutorial from the title menu (y'know, login, new character, etc). Not to teach them how to play EL, but to show them the basics of moving, talking to NPCs, talking in general (because EL's chat system may not be what they're used to), etc... Finishing off with a pointer to the new char menu and info on how to get help and more information once in the game.

Then tut_npc would give info about the game only, not the interface (as that was already covered) and the players at beam can answer questions about the game.

[Pyewacket]

I dont think it matters how simple the tutorial is made, its a common fact that most young kids dont read rules/instructions for any game. wether its on a PC or there Xbox 360 they just want to pick up and play.

 

but like it has been so rightly pointed out EL is not a " pick up and play game" and neither should it be.El's communtity is as good as it is because it attracts older players.

 

Is there room for younger players. yes 100% but they should adapt to the game they are playing not vice versa

 

Now we have eye candy special FX ingame, perhaps the "?" button for getting to the encyclopedia can have some glowy FX around it on first time players upto the standard level that the New Player Hints stop appearing onscreen? It might just encourage the new players to look in the right place for information if they have a visual indicator WHERE to look for it from the start. The concept of exploration and discovery can still be left in place however, by not having further little FX after that point. Once they open it, if they dont choose to use it to their own advantage, well thats their loss, not EL's.

 

It would only be a minor tweak and I am sure EL isnt gonna be lowering its standards too much for this?

 

*I've read thru all this thread and not seen this point made yet, but knowing the forums as I do, no doubt its been brought up before elsewhere so I apologise in advance for not using search this one time prior to posting if this is the case*

[fadewillows]

The way I see it, is that the game has been set out this way to filter the so called idiots and peeps who just cant be arsed (lazy) I think its better this way.

 

I have hung around IP on a few occasions willing to help new people. I would say 1/10 will stick to the game and say those nice words 'thank you for helping me' the others take free stuff and help and dont give a rats arse, never say thank you.

 

Are those 9 realy the type of players you want in the EL community? hmm I sure dont.

 

Fade

[frogimus]

Now we have eye candy special FX ingame, perhaps the "?" button for getting to the encyclopedia can have some glowy FX around it on first time players...<snip>

 

or just tweak the client build so that the encyclopedia is "open" when the new character hits the game

[Shujral]

i agree with froggy. Maybe even the newbie guide part. If you watch channel 1 for an hour, i guarantee you will see 150+ questions that are answered in that two page guide....

 

(I never had any trouble. I guess im wierd in the way i always read the manual/FAQ before starting a game)