Underworld not only unnecessary, but also extremely annoying

[sander]

But If you die in battle with your 1.5 Mgp sword, it's your own fault. You shouldn't have bought it if you can't use it. About the gold, I dunno. It sort of makes sense to store it in one bag, and to loose it all. I know, it's rough, but there's also a banker in desert pines now, and maybe one will open in wsc one day.

I didn't mean that you don't loose that 1.5Mgp sword, just make it less likely (20%?). You're right that it's your own fault when you die and loose the sword. But if you would die 5 times and loose it 3 times, you'd get pissed off way too quickly. Usually people have worked extremely hard and long in order to get enough gold to buy one of those. A serpent sword is more prestige that it realy is a good weapon (it's a good weapon alright, but not 1.5Mgp good. People bu it to show off. Therefor they will work extremely hard and long to get it).

 

About the bags: I will agree with you about loosing it all in one go if you can show me how to fit 900 platinum coins in a single coinbag and 5000 golden coins into another single coin bag

[Grum]

About the bags: I will agree with you about loosing it all in one go if you can show me how to fit 900 platinum coins in a single coinbag and 5000 golden coins into another single coin bag

 

Eeehm...ok, if you give me 900 platinum, I'll show you :wink:

[Leeloo]

Come'on, what's wrong with (some) people? Not going to the underworld? What's the whole point of dying then? Not loosing stuff when you die? What's the point of having PK maps at all, if you can't kill people to take their stuff?

 

Be smart, be careful, and you don't lose anything important. If you died with a 1900 plat sword, I say you got it way too early in the game. I can't even afford half of one yet, and I learned a long time ago to be careful when attacking things I don't know if I can handle. If you want to be on the safe side, ask someone you trust to stand by when attacking a bear. He can pick up your stuff, until you come back.

 

Sure I lost stuff, but the stuff I don't want to lose is in storage, so no problem. Even when I lost my pickaxe, I just borrowed one from someone else, harvested some silver, sold it, and bought my own. Simple.

 

Now, if you really want to complain about dying in games, how about this... In Quake3 or UT, when playing capture the flag, each time you die, you lose the flag, and go all the way back to the start, so you need to spend several minutes running around in confusing mazes, trying to get back to the flag. Now, if you didn't lose the flag, when you die, the game would actually be playable.

 

I say keep the underworld, anything else would be taking both the realism (the bit there is), and the fun out of the game.

[ShadowKnight]

While having an underworld isn't a bad idea, it becomes kind of pointless if you can just walk north and you're out. It just ends up being there to slow you down, and becomes nothing more than an annoyance. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to whine that it's too harsh, but if it's always the same then what's the point? There should be something to make it different, but getting rid of the compass to me isnt enough. I think it would be interesting if the underworld was random, but I know that's asking too much. I don't really have any reasonable ideas to make it more interesting, but there really should be something or there really isn't any point.

When it comes to items, I don't think it's too harsh. If you died in real life would you expect to be able to take anything with you? And even if you could, would you expect it's price tag to affect your ability to keep it? If anything, you should lose all of your items (but I'm not saying you should do that Ent), so in a way you should be thanking Ent.

[Zaerth]

I'm still relatively new at this game, and I haven't had the pleasure of dying recently, so if what I say is completely stupid and ignorant, I apologize, lol. Anyway, from what I know, when you die in EL, you randomly lose a few items. Well, as a suggestion, what a few other games do is when you die, your stuff falls on the ground (can't take stuff to your death). Then, after you come back to life, you can run over to where you died and get your stuff, or have a friend get it for you. Also, in one game I played, if you die, you keep your stuff, unless the creature that killed you strips you of your gear. It was a cool concept, but it wasn't much of a penalty until you got to higher levels. Anyway, I'm just tossing out a few ideas.

[Birkoff]

That happens in EL too!

When you die, your stuff will be in the ground in a bag....

[Velocet]

Well, I still like the "save" feature. You could earn a "save" (maybe by a certain exp gained in a particular stat, like every three levels of combat raised) so when you have one save (you can only have one at a time), and you die, you go to underworld, but you don't lose your stuff. If you die without a save, then you lose your stuff just the same. By requiring say, every three levels of combat to be raised to earn a save, would keep higher lvl players from always having a save, because if they die with a save, then they have to fight without one (and they will) for three more lvls, risking losing stuff. See, this gives players more of a chance to keep their stuff at least every once in a while. And they still have to earn it, it's not a freebie, and they can't buy it.

 

Also, I don't play video games to be reminded of the finality of death.

 

Thanks,

~Velocet

[sander]

ShadowKnight: How about this to improve the underworld: Instead of going into a cave and going back to EL, you need to find a wraith in the underworld. Ofcourse this wraith moves around quite a bit so you never know where to look for him. That would at least increase the challenge somewhat.

 

There are more things you could do with the underworld. Add some deamons there to haunt you. These deamons could attack you which would incur some for of penalty (you respawn at a different random point in the underworld??). These deamons could be pretty low-level though. Or just make them the same level as the player (if that's possible).

 

It might even be fun to add a high level playerquest later on that takes you to the underworld.... alive.... rescuing some damsel in distress from torement or something (if you are not dead and in the underworld, the deamons would be harder to beat ofcourse. Your level +10%-50%???)

 

I really feel that much much more can be done with the underworld than is currently used. The currrent underworld is just a nuisance. It should be hell ofcourse!

[Birkoff]

I got confused now.. someone could explain WHAT you are talking about when you said "Open up mapeditor and make a path +D I did it"

My map editor in linux does not work so i dont understand what are you talking about... What is that?

If i understand correctly, that means that you can modify a map and create a new storage point? or i doesnt undesrtood anithing???

If that is correct, than we NEED a map checking on load! :-)... Or I need a correction on the linux map maker lol... to do it too lol... (just kidding)

[Grum]

My map editor in linux does not work

 

It doesn't? Why not? If it's because of a dependency on some weird sound library I could send you a new binary.

[Nidan]

In one game i played, when you died, you couldn't play for the rest of the day, so this is not that harsh at all

Suppose that the door from the underword to the world of the living would only open once every hour. That would be a nice delay

Or that you can only leave the underworld if there are 10 ppl in it, and you'd have to queue up

 

btw, please dont implement this, ent :lol:

[Killerlamb]

I've got an Idea

1) You could implement karma (as seen in other threads)

2)6+ Karma goes to overworld and loses nothing

3)5- burns in the underworld and loses items

 

Karma would be at 5 when you begin and it rises when a mod sees you helping a noob and -1 for well....being an ass like me

[Grum]

Hmmm, I actually like the idea of using karma to define your punishment upon death, but...

it rises when a mod sees you helping a noob

here's a problem I think. First of all it gives mods way too much power, and besides that you only go up when someone sees you do something good. That's not a good idea, good deeds should be rewarded regardless, so karma in exchange for helping newbies is somewhat impractical.

[Birkoff]

Yes, i think is something related to library... i am at work now, later i will post what is the error i get when i try to start it....

My map editor in linux does not work

 

It doesn't? Why not? If it's because of a dependency on some weird sound library I could send you a new binary.

[Killerlamb]

Mabey certain quest raise your Karmizzle

[Cricket_God]

Well I haven't played this game all that much but I have died so I can comment on this I guess. I do agree that the underworld is more than a bit of a hassle and for a neubie it is confusing as hell. I was luckly able to follow someone who died and find the way out after 10 minutes. I don't think that it's overly unjust but I do think that the game would be better without it. As for the lose of items and gold: If you die, then that's the cost so be carful.

 

PS: several times I've seen people comment that if you die it is your own fault and that noone forces you to fight. That is not true. PKers and agressive monsters will force you to fight and you can't escape that.

[duran]

then stay out of pk areas and areas with agressive monsters (that includes whitestone at night), and try to move away from them under combat as you may be able to break of combat before they kill you...

[Killerlamb]

Anti-PK rings that make aggresive monsters run from j00would help for newbs who wanna go to WSC at night IMO

[ShadowKnight]

not a bad idea sander

[Aerowind]

I know you have forgotten things before but this is just funny (don't mean to mock Ent but wow I get to correct him for once ) yay

No, I didn't ban him.

Newbies don't lose anything, until level 6 (or is it 7?) combat.

It's until they are level 6 combat just to tell you (wow Ent forgetting the own thing he put in)

[Cicero]

Anti-PK rings that make aggresive monsters run from j00would help for newbs who wanna go to WSC at night IMO

 

PK has nothing to do with monsters, it's players killing other players. If you want something that keeps monsters away, you can get your potions level to 30 then cough up the money for the cloak.

[Killerlamb]

What cloak (Honest I don't even play anymore)

[Entropy]

There is a problem with making the underworld more difficult.

I spend a lot of time watching newbies. Like on the newbie island, or in underworld. A lot of them can't find the exit, or if they do they can't putt eh mouse over the archway and click...

Altho i'd love to have a game full of intelligent people, that would mean we'd have only like 30 users online. We have to make it simple enough so stupid people can play too...

As for the map CRC thing, I allways planned to do that. but I allways postponed it.

[Grum]

A lot of them can't find the exit...

The good thing is, once the underworld gets harder, we ALL won't be able to find the exit :? , so everyone will be a bit more lenient towards newbies

 

or if they do they can't putt eh mouse over the archway and click...

eehhmmm...carve instruction on the wall? I have to admit it confused me the first time too, but surely it'll be easier now with the changing cursors?

 

]As for the map CRC thing, I allways planned to do that. but I allways postponed it.

Tough choice, I'd love to see new features added, but I really hate cheating. Then again, I think by far most people will not cheat.

[sander]

New features can still be added. You can still make and edit maps. Just not the maps that are used in the game. So if you want to edit one of the game maps, just make a copy of it. Add the stuff you want and mail it to moonshadow.