Movement & Attacking

[Guest Psycholamb]

One of the things that i have found to be a small inhibitor is how you move around. I love how you can select your destination on the map and just start walking there. But on the small scale it isnt as "smooth". I Think that if you could hold down left mouse button to walk in that direction so that you move in different directions just by moving your mouse it would become easier to chase down animals/monsters. At the moment I find it can sometimes be a little difficult because as the animal changes course you must also and it takes a few clicks for your toon to change course. I Know that this is at least the movement method that Dark Age of Camelot and Ultima Online uses.

 

The other thing is attacking. If you could make it so that if you can see it on screen you can click on it and initiate an attack or something with the animal so that as soon as you are within range you attack, that would make for less mouse hand cramps. There have been times where i have finally caught up to something and i though i had already clicked it to attack, but then its run off and someone else has made the kill. So basically:

 

1. You see the prey

2. You click on the prey with the sword cursor

3. You chase down the prey

4. When within range you begin to fight it

 

(And if you decide it isnt worth it before catching up to it just click again to cancel the attack)

 

 

N.B.

I had a quick search and didnt seem to find anything like this. If i missed it, my apologies.

[ttlanhil]

moving without clicking is a problem, for several technical reasons (both of these ideas have come up before a few times, so you can probably find the details with a bit more searching)... and the distance that you can attack critters from is the same they can attack you from... do you want monsters to see you and initiate combat from 2 screens away?

[Guest Psycholamb]

I just had another look around and cant find anything on why walking cant be modified (if you have link or remember the author that would help). Basically it gets a little annoying to click everytime your character moves half a screen. I cannot imagine how hard it must get sometimes for people on laptops who use their touchpad, constantly tapping at the pad.

 

A further thing on the attacking. The attack distance wouldnt change its just that, instead of a message saying you're too far away from the rabbit, you start to chase the rabbit.

 

Though to be honest I figure i could live without the attacking being modified but the movement controls are another thing. I mean, in a perfect world (and one day it probably will be in EL),

 

Right-Click would rotate through the buttons (as it does now).

Left-Click Would attack if you clicked an animal, or interact with an npc; move to a spot if you clicked somewhere; start moving in a direction if you clicked and held it.

[Derin]

I just had another look around and cant find anything on why walking cant be modified (if you have link or remember the author that would help). Basically it gets a little annoying to click everytime your character moves half a screen. I cannot imagine how hard it must get sometimes for people on laptops who use their touchpad, constantly tapping at the pad.

The movement speed is a technical fact in EL, all "inhabitants" move at the same speed. And that cannot be changed under the current system.

 

A further thing on the attacking. The attack distance wouldnt change its just that, instead of a message saying you're too far away from the rabbit, you start to chase the rabbit.

and that IS the attack distance, which works both ways, as ttlanhil pointed out above.

 

Right-Click would rotate through the buttons (as it does now).

Left-Click Would attack if you clicked an animal, or interact with an npc; move to a spot if you clicked somewhere; start moving in a direction if you clicked and held it.

Sorry, but I don't quite get this one. This is how it works currently, but note that in some cases you want to "look" at an animal not just "attack" it. The click and hold colud be nice, but you can click and walk quite a bit, especially if you use the perspective view.

[Jarld]

I think the real "problem" is not that you have to click somewhere so that your character goes there, but the delay between the time you click and the time your character starts changing direction, when it's already walking.

[Mugwump]

I have similar situations with chasing prey, where they change direction and my 'me' goes off the wrong way no matter where I click. After decades of in-game practice, I seem to have better luck clicking to move far less frequently and not actually making the attack until I am very close.

 

I also have to watch my FPS which often drops way below 10. This can cause sleeping snakes to move! Also lag affects movement, which noone but the W3C can control (and they are wimps.)

 

A few tips I've learned is that an attack can be made by clicking on the name of the target as well as the avatar, and zooming in a little always helps.

 

Be thankful! A few years ago if you clicked on the tree leaves above you, you would move to the base of the treee! Little by little the volunteer programmers are improving the game, blessed be they little fingees!!

[heu]

I just had another look around and cant find anything on why walking cant be modified (if you have link or remember the author that would help). Basically it gets a little annoying to click everytime your character moves half a screen. I cannot imagine how hard it must get sometimes for people on laptops who use their touchpad, constantly tapping at the pad.

The movement speed is a technical fact in EL, all "inhabitants" move at the same speed. And that cannot be changed under the current system.

 

If I understand it right, he's not complaining about the speed, just that it's annoying to keep clicking in a short range when you can actually see a long range.

 

A further thing on the attacking. The attack distance wouldnt change its just that, instead of a message saying you're too far away from the rabbit, you start to chase the rabbit.

and that IS the attack distance, which works both ways, as ttlanhil pointed out above.

 

 

Not really. Today, the fighting system works something like this. When you're within the attack range, you click attack, then you engage the fight (the animal/player attacked stops), you move towards and start the fight. The change he suggested would be like: you click the target, your char chases the victim and, when it gets within the attack range, engage and fight like the current system.

 

I actually think that would be a great improvement.

 

I think the real "problem" is not that you have to click somewhere so that your character goes there, but the delay between the time you click and the time your character starts changing direction, when it's already walking.

 

Yeah... And that gets pretty bad when you have a 300-400 average ping... but it's not something the game code can fix unless it knows exactly where you wanna go... which is what "chasing system" would do (follow the target)

[trollson]

The change he suggested would be like: you click the target, your char chases the victim and, when it gets within the attack range, engage and fight like the current system.

If you mean walk towards the location occupied by the target when you clicked on it, but to engage it you have to click again when in range, then fine; this just substitutes movement for an invalid attack.

 

If you mean home in on the target (which remains free to move), and then automatically attack when you get in range (target becomes locked in combat), then no; this is a gross automation of hunting and attacking.

[heu]

The change he suggested would be like: you click the target, your char chases the victim and, when it gets within the attack range, engage and fight like the current system.

 

If you mean home in on the target (which remains free to move), and then automatically attack when you get in range (target becomes locked in combat), then no; this is a gross automation of hunting and attacking.

 

Well, that's how it works on every other game I've played, but, of course, there's no engagement in a fight on them...

 

Anyway, reducing the clicks is a good idea for both players (specially those with repetitive strain injury) and the server by reducing the bandwidth overload

[redsoxlovr10]

Would this even work with the coordinates system??

[LabRat]

There was a stage where people could 'rent-a-ant',, and said rented ant would happily follow the player round for days. So yes, tracking players/animals is entirely possible. Not that I'd want such a thing as hunting down rabbits from the other side of IP, breaking a mouse means I get to upgrade sooner

[wexy]

There was a FOLLOW button before too.

 

I also think something was done with movement system few months ago, now even without lag your character sometimes goes 5 or even more steps after you click to another location and it's really annoying.

 

"Home in on target" would be bad if it didn't have a certain time period after which it stops. In some other games monsters do chase you after you get away from them.

[Atlantis]

I agree. Chasing a fluffy in the snow if he ignores you is *very* annoying. Woodsprites and such are also hard to click on.

 

From what I heard, -EF- client had a nice feature that semi-worked, end button attacking nearest target. I think that would solve the problem, but not including players would be a good idea, imo.

[Learner]

I agree. Chasing a fluffy in the snow if he ignores you is *very* annoying. Woodsprites and such are also hard to click on.

 

From what I heard, -EF- client had a nice feature that semi-worked, end button attacking nearest target. I think that would solve the problem, but not including players would be a good idea, imo.

That was one of the features that got them into trouble.

[heu]

I still like the "click on the target to chase" idea better... but I doubt it would be implemented.

[ttlanhil]

I have a laptop. moving a long distance is easy. use the tab-map for travelling

 

the delay before you move is because of lag. some games ignore that and let you start moving straight away; those will often have several characters/critters in the same place. In EL, it's a bit slower, but it's correct

 

to get it easier to attack stuff, put the name font size up to about 6 and click the name. it's hard to miss then I've been saying that for years

 

auto-follow is bad, all you need is zoom far out, perspective to max, name font size up to 20, and click without looking. if there's a critter anywhere about, you'll chase it, if not, you won't hit ground (because of perspective)... see how bad it could be abused for automation? and you always have to assume someone will abuse it if possible

[heu]

I have a laptop. moving a long distance is easy. use the tab-map for travelling

 

the delay before you move is because of lag. some games ignore that and let you start moving straight away; those will often have several characters/critters in the same place. In EL, it's a bit slower, but it's correct

 

to get it easier to attack stuff, put the name font size up to about 6 and click the name. it's hard to miss then I've been saying that for years

 

because of lags, sometimes it happens that you are within the attack range, you click the animal, then it starts moving and you get a "not close enough" message... it's very annoying sometimes

 

auto-follow is bad, all you need is zoom far out, perspective to max, name font size up to 20, and click without looking. if there's a critter anywhere about, you'll chase it, if not, you won't hit ground (because of perspective)... see how bad it could be abused for automation? and you always have to assume someone will abuse it if possible

 

the client doesn't have the information of creatures farther then a certain range, so, such automation would have to be server-side.

[ttlanhil]

because of lags, sometimes it happens that you are within the attack range, you click the animal, then it starts moving and you get a "not close enough" message... it's very annoying sometimes

I know, I get that a lot, that's why I prefer training on critters that attack me(especially sinze zooming out for hunting, even with 15FPS cap, puts my CPU to max, so networking is slowed)

the client doesn't have the information of creatures farther then a certain range, so, such automation would have to be server-side.

yes and no. I'm aware of what's available. a low angle with far view and name font size up to something huge would mean you attack anything in a wide arc in range... view distance is further than you see without a high perspective or modded zoom. Edited December 1, 2006 by ttlanhil

[Atlantis]

I know, I get that a lot, that's why I prefer training on critters that attack me(especially sinze zooming out for hunting, even with 15FPS cap, puts my CPU to max, so networking is slowed)

Well, attacking something like an orc is not difficult at all, hard is attacking stuff like fluffies, and you cannot just move up a monster when they stop attacking you.

[ttlanhil]

Well, attacking something like an orc is not difficult at all, hard is attacking stuff like fluffies, and you cannot just move up a monster when they stop attacking you.

that's not really relevant to the topic... but... orcs? pshaw. I'm in the gap between ogres and armed orcs (trolls recently stopped attacking me. ogres did a while back. and don't ask, because it's not on topic), it'll be a while before I can step up to cyclops

[heu]

the client doesn't have the information of creatures farther then a certain range, so, such automation would have to be server-side.

yes and no. I'm aware of what's available. a low angle with far view and name font size up to something huge would mean you attack anything in a wide arc in range... view distance is further than you see without a high perspective or modded zoom.

 

Yes, it's a little further but I didn't get your point. I mean, there's no problem with that.

[Atlantis]

That is away from the main purpose of this thread, so lets go back on topic. Can we at least agree on the fact that chasing monsters is really frustrating, and an "attack nearest creature" or something like that function would be less stressful without many cons?

[ttlanhil]

Yes, it's a little further but I didn't get your point. I mean, there's no problem with that.

right now you can attack critters that are within... 4 tiles, I think, of you. and you have to move the mouse to click on them, etc... with what I was talking about, you have the full distance to where you can see people (20 tiles, maybe?), as well as covering 1/4-1/2 of the arc around you, without having to move the mouse. that is a big difference.

 

I'd like to have an attack-nearest within certain combat skill limits like the monsters have (though with a minimum as well as max), but people would abuse that too. hold down the key for that and have a coffee? no action required to level. that's bad

[heu]

Yes, it's a little further but I didn't get your point. I mean, there's no problem with that.

right now you can attack critters that are within... 4 tiles, I think, of you. and you have to move the mouse to click on them, etc... with what I was talking about, you have the full distance to where you can see people (20 tiles, maybe?), as well as covering 1/4-1/2 of the arc around you, without having to move the mouse. that is a big difference.

 

Yes. And that's exactly what the suggested improvement (yes, an improvement imo) was.

[wexy]

the delay before you move is because of lag. some games ignore that and let you start moving straight away; those will often have several characters/critters in the same place. In EL, it's a bit slower, but it's correct

 

Erm, you didn't read what I said or you forgot on the way writing the reply.

 

Before, I was on dial-up, ~160-200ms ping, character responds within that time.

 

Since few months ago, character takes like 2 sec to respond + it happens even now when I'm not on dial-up with 60ms ping.

 

And I'm not talking about repeating clicks in a short period of time, I know client doesn't send same messages if in certain time scoop. You click to move, character starts moving, after few sec you click another location, character walks 5 more steps in "old" direction then changes to the new one. This "change" was noticed several months ago by every player that I asked too.

 

So lag is not the answer because I don't have it.

Edited December 1, 2006 by wexy