Manufacturing/Crafting and Ethereal Points

[flinto]

OK here is the idea.

 

When making magic items - jewelry and swords - shouldn't we be expending some ethereal points in the process; after all we are imbuing it with magic. To compensate we would not need as much food consumption.

 

What overall effect would this have: Increase SR market and make a larger market for greater mana pots. Would require the manufacturer to have a good EP lvl and possibly a requirement for a COM for the higher lvl swords.

 

I have made the following suggestions - would like to reduce food even further but not sure if we should.

 

Ok look at the suggestions below and flame away.

 

Suggestion EP/Food changes

Crafting

IP Ring 6 food 10 EP

VOTD Ring 5 food 12 ep

Naralik Ring 8 food 10 EP

WS Ring 5 food 15 EP

Portland 10 Food 16 EP

DP 12 Food 18 EP

 

Anitora Food 15 EP 15

IDA Food 15 EP 17

Bethel Food 15 EP 19

Sedicolis Food 13 EP 21

PV Food 12 EP 22

Kusamura Food 10 EP 25

Egratia Food 10 EP 27

Iscarlith Food 8 EP 30

Irinveron Food 5 EP 35

Hulda Food 7 EP 35

Trasian Food 10 EP 35

IotF Food 12 EP 35

Imbroglio Food 12 EP 35

Hurquin Food 5 EP 50 (not magic ess so more EP required for the ring)

Glacmor Food 5 EP 50

EV Food 5 EP 50

 

Damage Rings 10 Food 15 EP

Dis Rings 10 Food 20 EP

RoP 10 Food 50 EP

Sun Med Food 5 EP 17

Unicorn Med Food 5 EP 15

Moon Med Food 5 EP 20

Star Med Food 5 EP 25

 

Swords

ISOF Food 35 EP 80

IBSOF Food 35 EP 90

IBSOI Food 35 EP 100

SLOF Food 35 EP 120

SLOI Food 35 EP 140

SLOM Food 35 EP 160

S2EOF Food 35 EP 150

S2EOI Food 35 EP 165

S2EOI Food 35 EP 180

S2EOM Food 35 EP 200

S2EofT Food 35 EP 190

[shamara]

Shouldn't magic experience as well as crafting be given since ethereal points are used?

[MagpieLee]

I think this is a good idea. It certainly makes much more sense then using a load of food as it conjures up the feeling of 'enchanting' the rings to make them magical (or weapons, or medallions).

[Acelon]

Yet manu and crafting are already some of the hardest skills...

[flinto]

The Magic xp is a good idea and because crafting is already difficult maybe we should double the crafting XP.

[Cycloonx]

Using srs instead of fp would be better though, maybe we finally could make some money with crafting

[ville-v]

Swords

ISOF Food 35 EP 80

IBSOF Food 35 EP 90

IBSOI Food 35 EP 100

SLOF Food 35 EP 120

SLOI Food 35 EP 140

SLOM Food 35 EP 160

S2EOF Food 35 EP 150

S2EOI Food 35 EP 165

S2EOI Food 35 EP 180

S2EOM Food 35 EP 200

S2EofT Food 35 EP 190

 

1. Why easiest magic swords have so high mana use?

 

2. Why magic sword needs more than thermal? Because it has "magic" in its name? doesn't make sense...

 

3. How much mana will thermal serp require? 400?

 

4. Every item should be possible to make with 100 mana. At least no more than you have with 10 ethereality+CoM.

[WiseDwarf]

It already takes a lot of ingredients and time to make crafted items. Why make it take even more?

[ville-v]

It already takes a lot of ingredients and time to make crafted items. Why make it take even more?

 

For small magic exp when making

[Ruibinha]

I don't get the point about fp's .. maybe cuz sr's are cheaper?

U will waste "same thing", u will need to use fp's AND sr's instead of using only fp's.

Manufacter and crafting are hard skills, no doubt, it consumes many ingredients to make the "product".

I don't dislike neither like this idea, i just don't get the point of food :x.

 

Anyways, if manufacter and crafting would waste food + mana then Alchemy and Potion should waste mana + food too.

 

Then, we would lose mana for all skills except defense and attack.

(at least this is my opinion, not saying bad of ur point of view)

 

 

Edit => didn't knew sr's were more expensive than fps :x . sorry . hehe. I never buy sr's..

Edited May 17, 2006 by Ruibinha

[Cyprom]

I'm not really for this idea...

 

Feasting Potions are CHEAPER than SR (11 - 15+vial)

Though I can make SRs myself with cheaper ingredients, but I kinda use feasting potions for that don't I

 

I just started crafting again and I already used up loads of feasting potions, the food goes down incredibly fast. Now you want to add mana as well?!? I know the food lvl will go down less, but also note that SRs are not stackable, this will make the skill itself harder (purely sitting behind the comp). Also getting the ingredients will be harder... Getting feasting potions is just a few runs to Mira with some money. Buying SRs from Mira requires more gc AND more runs (since not stackable). Buying them from players will be even more exspensive.

 

Mana is not a synonym for magic. So putting magic in an item does not mean putting in our mana. We don't use mana, it just happens to become magical. I don't want to get "punished" for that, losing mana.

Then I also need a CoM... You almost force me into buying a CoM, for which I don't have the funds. And it takes time to fill it up (not all that long, but if I plan on making some high level stuff - and I always plan big amounts - this would mean i have to wait a while before I can start, so I can then use feasting potions and SRs)

 

Short: it's too much...

 

Maybe lots of things I didn't think about, but they're 2 of the hardest skills ok. no need to make em harder

 

Note: On the official eternal lands website, the information about alchemy says:

You can create magical essences

or at least something like this

Means you need mana to make essences? have fun alchemists who make thousands of he...

[Ruibinha]

Note: On the official eternal lands website, the information about alchemy says:

You can create magical essences

or at least something like this

Means you need mana to make essences? have fun alchemists who make thousands of he...

 

 

I'm not happy neither unhappy with this topic.

Besides i gave my opinion of what he said about making "things" that are "magical" should require mana and less food.. So i gave the example for alchemy and potion, they are "magical" (in some way) and with his reasons would apply for alchemy and potion too.

 

I remenber you that i am not saying that "ohhhh, of course should waste mana + food" or "Nah, forget about this idea".

I am giving my OPINION. And saying that with his reasons to make manufacturing and crafting wasting mana and food are the same thing for alchemy and potion.

Then almost all skills, except: summoning, attack, defense and magic, would be all diferent. And i think best part of EL community is already "in" with this way of making the products. If they wouldn't be "in" they would have already made a topic with this subject.

 

 

P.S.: I remenber you, again, that is my opinion in this subject, so dont think i am saying that should / shouldnt waste mana + food. I just say some facts.. i guess

Edited May 17, 2006 by Ruibinha

[Cycloonx]

The thing is I can make srs for 2gc, and fps are just undercutted by mira. When you had to make then yourself they would be more expensive

[Ruibinha]

imho will be expensive anyways, u will waste food and mana same time.

maybe not that expensive as before, but expensive same time.

for example.. in manufacturing u will use energy (at least in RL (lol)), it isnt magical, so no use to put it wasting mana + food.

 

In crafting (im not a crafter so i will say what i "think of it") is also same thing about manufacturing, ofc both gives u "magical equipment" (not the correct words.. i know) but is not magic... PUFFF appeared. Alchemy, potion, manufacturing and crafting u need ingredients that are made from other skills and some that u need to catch, buy (whatever).

In the other hand magic is PUFFFF appeared, u buy sigils, essences and nothing more, so, yeah.. in here u waste mana (like summoning.. PUFFFF rabbit appeared)

 

I think my dialog is not that easy to understand what i mean.. but i hope u do an effort to understand it :x hehe

[flinto]

Let me address the manufacture first - I know how difficult it is to level (I have reached lvl 45) but I am only talking about the <b>magic</b> swords.

 

To make a sword required food - most of that was done when producing the modable weapon. So we now have to force the magic into it so that it radiates with the appropriate magical properties.

 

Why such a high ethereal requirement - well they are large objects and require a huge amount of energy from your personal "Will" to force these energies into the instrument of your desire.

 

So this be available with someone who has a low ethereal level - why? If you want to make the swords spend the Pick Points - you cant have everything and expect to do everything without some sacrifice. By the way I dont have the EP to make all the swords with a COM but then when I want to make them (oh I do) I will have to increase my Max EP.

 

Now crafting

If I use manufacturing skills I get a ring with a stone inbedded - not a magical ring. For the magic to be activated you have to put something of yourself into it. This is you ethereal property. You therefore need a little food to construct the ring physically and then activate the magic. (hence people say crafting and magic xp).

 

Rings and Medallions are not physically as large as swords so require a smaller amount of EP and a small amount of food for the manu side.

 

If you want to make bulk jobs of items then you are going to need a lot of EP and not just a ton of Feastings in your storage. You therefore will have a need for a COM an item that only summoners tend to use. So how do you refill it? 1. Eat food and wait - ouch. 2. Drink SRs - ouch 3. Make Extra Mana Pots from SRs 4. Use bones to Mana from summon god. 5. The sleeping quarters when/if it arrives (another thread)

 

Does this make crafting harder to lvl - yes but that can be compensated by increasing the XP obtained. Does it make sense - I think so. Will I hate it and kick myself afterwards if it gets implemented - I expect so (but I won't be able to bitch and will need a name change so everybody else doesn't lynch me). Will it add to the game - I think so.

 

OK now to answer you alchemy part - lets look at FE - I see this like today where we have a match (well the head) all primed and ready to go - but I don't see it as anything particularly magic; just a well packaged parcel of energy of a certain type. Making Bars are chemical processes (coal plus fire to melt the ore to produce metal)

 

As for your argument for costing more I don't agree. Why would I want to buy SRs for 15gc when I can make them for about 2gc? If you can't make them get the ingredients and find someone that will mix them for you for the experience - they will then cost you 2gc each.

 

Anyway this whole topic is for suggestions and not all ideas are thought of when the game was initially conceived. If you don't like the idea that is great - if you like it that is great too. In the end it is Ent's decision what he does and we are just giving him ideas so that he can form them into the game as and when he sees appropriate. This idea may never come to anything (like most) but that is also ok because we are here to help and it is better to provide suggestions freely than to expect the development team to think of everything and for us to moan when we don't like something. If this gets implemented and everyone hates it I will come and stand in KF and let each and everyone of you, that want's to, beat the hell out of me because it will all be my fault; but hey so what its a game and you have to try things

 

Flinto

 

PS cyprom I also don't have the funds to buy a COM, but I would soon realise that I need one and it wouldn't take long to get one. Maybe your guild could have one that could be passed around for non-pk purposes

[Ruibinha]

Anyway this whole topic is for suggestions and not all ideas are thought of when the game was initially conceived. If you don't like the idea that is great - if you like it that is great too. In the end it is Ent's decision what he does and we are just giving him ideas so that he can form them into the game as and when he sees appropriate. This idea may never come to anything (like most) but that is also ok because we are here to help and it is better to provide suggestions freely than to expect the development team to think of everything and for us to moan when we don't like something.

 

I agree with u on this

 

 

If this gets implemented and everyone hates it I will come and stand in KF and let each and everyone of you, that want's to, beat the hell out of me because it will all be my fault

 

lol

 

 

OK now to answer you alchemy part - lets look at FE - I see this like today where we have a match (well the head) all primed and ready to go - but I don't see it as anything particularly magic; just a well packaged parcel of energy of a certain type. Making Bars are chemical processes (coal plus fire to melt the ore to produce metal)

 

U make "magic items" from manufacturing and crafting.. right? medallions, rings with "magic propreties". Alchemy is the same thing.. for what u use the essences? except crafting, manufacturing, u use it on magic. so they are magical anyways.

 

In my point of view u are talking to all skills (even if it isnt ur objective) (except magic, attack, defense and summoning) that should require EP. The reasons you point go to alchemy too then.. (except the fact that alchemy is a easy skill to lvl).

[ville-v]

Do you understand how long it will take make single item? Iirc, cooldown of SR is 20 seconds. Most of c2 rings need 2-3. So you need 40-60 seconds for one ring. Magic swords will take even 10. So you can make that sword once in ~3 minutes!

[Cyprom]

Now crafting

If I use manufacturing skills I get a ring with a stone inbedded - not a magical ring. For the magic to be activated you have to put something of yourself into it. This is you ethereal property. You therefore need a little food to construct the ring physically and then activate the magic. (hence people say crafting and magic xp).

 

Why not use a magic essence in all rings then... like the c2 rings. But not EP plz.

 

 

PS cyprom I also don't have the funds to buy a COM, but I would soon realise that I need one and it wouldn't take long to get one. Maybe your guild could have one that could be passed around for non-pk purposes

 

Little note:

I'm in a pk guild, I'm like the only one who crafts/manus

I have to repair CoLs all the time (they get damaged fast by my guildies) and as Tankel likes to mess it up, I might have to get a few new CoLs eventually... leaving no money for CoM

 

 

Anywayz I know it could be done, but I just don't like it for reasons I explained before.

Good luck lol

Edited May 18, 2006 by Cyprom

[MagpieLee]

On the whole I agree with this idea but I think the food/mana points need some tweaking. Yes also SRs need to have a faster cooldown too and if things get tweaked so that C2 rings have a lot less mana, slightly more food etc.

I like the reasoning behind infusing modable swords with magic (i.e. enchanting), and also for the teleport rings. It makes much more sense then making say a ring that mysteriously depletes your food lvl instantly.

[Terena]

Overall I rather like this idea. I think maybe some of the values are a little too high, considering that SRs don't stack, but I like the idea of needing a COM for the very top items. Usually its only used for summoning, it would be nice to give it another function. If we also get magic exp, this gets a big thumbs up from me.

 

Also, I don't know if anyone's considered this, but the cooldown for feasting potions and SRs is separate. So instead of sitting like a numpty waiting for the feasting potion cooldown, I can craft a bit quicker because the cost is spread out over two different types of potions.

[skodarap]

It's not that i don't like the idea, but, what's the point of magic nexus than?

[flinto]

It's not that i don't like the idea, but, what's the point of magic nexus than?

 

Funny, because I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it can be withdrawn and our pp returned or lets make the spells require a magic nexus as well.

[CelticLady]

Let me address the manufacture first - I know how difficult it is to level (I have reached lvl 45) but I am only talking about the <b>magic</b> swords.

 

To make a sword required food - most of that was done when producing the modable weapon. So we now have to force the magic into it so that it radiates with the appropriate magical properties.

 

Why such a high ethereal requirement - well they are large objects and require a huge amount of energy from your personal "Will" to force these energies into the instrument of your desire.

 

So this be available with someone who has a low ethereal level - why? If you want to make the swords spend the Pick Points - you cant have everything and expect to do everything without some sacrifice. By the way I dont have the EP to make all the swords with a COM but then when I want to make them (oh I do) I will have to increase my Max EP.

 

 

Uhh...Aren't you "forcing the energies into the instrument of your desire" using binding stones? You are "binding" the EFE/EME etc. into the sword giving it the Enchanted property of that enriched ess.

 

And secondly, I did spend the pick points needed by getting my Magic Nex to 5 in order to make these swords. Had I not already been into crafting and had my Magic Nex at 3 I would have had to add 5 pick points to be able to make these swords. Why should I also have to add them to Will?

 

I see where you are coming from with your idea. I just don't agree with it is all. I won't even touch on the crafting part of this because I only craft for personal/guild/friends and still feel it is a pain to lvl, so anything that makes crafting harder is just not a good idea to me.

[Arnieman]

Maybe you need the magic nexus to funnel your EP in?

 

I don't like the idea, personally. It just strains another resource, and leaves people dependant on the clock almost completely for one skill.

 

Maybe if the SR cooldowns could be negated/reduced for manufacture, but I don't see that happening. Besides, how does the SR get it's magic properties then? Or any of the essences - those are essentially prepackaged bottle of magic...