vitez Report post Posted March 9, 2006 I think many people totally missunderstood my post... I did not mean developers should give us info about secrets, cheats (...). But they SHOULD give us information about new ITEMS and creatures. How they look like, and what are their stats. If it is an item, how much is it's base cost, and where (if possible) to buy it. And guys, I speak for myself - I do not feel it interesting to ask on #1 about these new stuff - I think it is developer's responsibility to give is one small paragraph of text about each new item/creature. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pyewacket Report post Posted March 9, 2006 On the other han I really think the enzyclopedia should be updated more often. We have a few items in the game that are really old nowadays and still not mentioned in the enzyclopedia. Yes, we are working on that, if you see something that's missing, please...post it in the encyc thread! (We need to keep Torg busy *giggles*) Like..."bears"....for instance? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vitez Report post Posted March 9, 2006 I am professional software engineer since 1992. and trust me, writing about new Item is one simple paragraph, approximately 250 characters. Developer who added new feature will need 1min to write that paragraph. "Precious" time? Come on, give me a break! For me it would be just a waist of their precious time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted March 9, 2006 I think many people totally missunderstood my post... I did not mean developers should give us info about secrets, cheats (...). But they SHOULD give us information about new ITEMS and creatures. How they look like, and what are their stats. If it is an item, how much is it's base cost, and where (if possible) to buy it. And guys, I speak for myself - I do not feel it interesting to ask on #1 about these new stuff - I think it is developer's responsibility to give is one small paragraph of text about each new item/creature. Channel 1 is not the appropriate place for that anyway. It's newbie help there. I disagree with you totally on this. It is not our responsibility to play for you and hand you everything on a silver platter. If we want some things to be surprises, that's our right. If we want you to work for some things, that's our right too. *shrugs* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vitez Report post Posted March 9, 2006 Let me shorten my text from the begining of this thread, and write it in some other "language": // aNewItems is an array which holds newly added Items & Creatures foreach (Item oItem; aNewItems) { addItemToEncyclopedia(oItem); } I hope now some people will understand what I am talking about... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted March 9, 2006 The simplicity of adding the info isn't the issue at all here. It isn't that we can't do it, we do not want to all of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vitez Report post Posted March 9, 2006 OK, i understand that EL team does not want to give us information I think they should do. Can You give me one reason for that which makes sense? Please do not try with "precious time" like someone said here... The simplicity of adding the info isn't the issue at all here. It isn't that we can't do it, we do not want to all of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted March 9, 2006 I'll try again. As I said in another post in another topic, EL isn't a race to the finish line. The idea here is that there are things to discover and yes, some are intentional secrets. Some will find them, some will not. We don't want EL to be only about leveling. About the internal fixes: again, as I've already posted here, we don't want to let out every bug that comes along, for obvious reasons. Nor do we want to spend more time trying to explain the behind-the-scenes things we changed/fixed to a majority of people who have no clue what we are talking about. There is no need for that. If we feel something is important for the players to know, we tell them. If we don't want to, we won't. We don't have to. We are trying to set a tone for the game...we want people to explore, to try new things, and not just "click click click" because all information is spoon fed. This is why giving out coords in official channels is not legal, why we don't tell players creature stats (or have them posted on the EL site), why we say "we have 2 new items out"...we want you to go look for them! If you don't want to, fine, that's your prerogative. But because you can't be bothered, doesn't mean we are going to change the direction we want EL to go for you. Kinda like pk maps...just because some people don't like them, doesn't mean we will remove them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vitez Report post Posted March 9, 2006 Aislinn, You either do not want to understand my post, or deliberatly try to outsmart me, or just to "show off". Sorry to say this - but I do not understand how can you write such text above after I explained what I think... This is why giving out coords in official channels is not legal I did not talk about this at all. Please re-read my post. In short, to clarify things, so You might understand what I am talking about: 1) I do not want developers to reveal secret places 2) I do not want developers to reveal new NPCs (their positions) All I said is this: I want information about new ITEMS and/or CREATURES: 1) their name(s) 2) (optionally) their stats why we don't tell players creature stats ... we want you to go look for them Please explain to me how can one player with 1kgc in storage "go look" for, for an instance, staff of protection? It is IMPOSSIBLE to "look for"!!! But this is not the main question, the main question is - HOW that person would even go looking for something (s)he does not even KNOW it exists? I have heard about staff of protection month after the update! And how could I know it's stats? How could I know whether I would need that item or not? - I need to KNOW what it does in order to be interested in "looking for it"!!! If Radu says "there are two rare items", at least he could say their names, and what those items DO. It is IMHO stupid to buy an item which cost 100kgc just to "look into" and get information about, don't You agree? And again question is how to know about its existence... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted March 9, 2006 The information is not given away because we believe a lot of players like to discover it themselves. A little bit of mistery is good. Would you like the movie "The 6th sense" to begin with the ending scene? If you don't have the patience to find out what the new items are, well, that's too bad. But anyway, dare to start a poll asking people whether they would like all the new items/monsters/maps/etc. to be given away each update? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vitez Report post Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) Sure, but make it clear, and ... I can just hope that poll would not finish like that one about cooldown - misteriously gone after, even more mysterious crash... ;P And please do not make it "sound" like "if the result is ... i would ..." because that will make poll unfair and useless. And YES, I do NOT want information about new maps to be reveiled as well. I also think it would be cool to find/discover new maps by myself. Again, I was talking about new items/creatures ONLY! Edited March 9, 2006 by Vitez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted March 9, 2006 You make the poll. And it's not like it will impact the way we address releases, but I am just curious about what the players think. As for the other poll that dissapeared under misterious circumstances, it was 50% for each option, for like 3 days, so it is unlikely that any side would have won. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkc56 Report post Posted March 9, 2006 Things seem to be heating up in this thread just a bit... So picking a few example items, here's what I think. New animals/monsters - I think it's fun to find these on your own (NOT in release notes). Personally, I'd like to know what their stats are rather than attacking and finding out it's a 100/100 a/d, but you can't do that and keep the thing secret so I'd rely on word-of-mouth for that info. New items you can purchase - I think these should be listed (IN the release notes) along with stats. As Vitez pointed out above a 100K+ new weapon is not something the average player can purchase just to see what it does. But release notes wouldn't need to say where you buy it or how much (those could be left to discover) just that the item(s) are new and here's what they do. New items you can make - I think these should be listed (IN the release note) along with stats. But the formulas could be kept secret for some period of time (say a month). People don't know to try something unless they're told it exists, but some will have fun playing with different combinations to try and be the first to make one. After a month or so, then the forumulas can also be released so everyone has an equal opportunity. New maps and secret locations - These should not be listed (NOT in the release notes). Those that like to explore every corner of every map will find them, and over time they will become known to more and more people. Basically, things that can be found (like a place) don't need to be or shouldn't be listed in release notes. Items that you can't find (like new manu/crafting items) should be listed so interested people can experiment and try to find the right formula (you can't experiment for something you don't know exists). I believe this would be a nice balance between having things that people can find/discover/figure-out without people being frustrated with a lack of information about WHAT to find/discover/figure-out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vitez Report post Posted March 9, 2006 bkc56, i completely agree with what you said above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted March 9, 2006 Aislinn, You either do not want to understand my post, or deliberatly try to outsmart me, or just to "show off". Sorry to say this - but I do not understand how can you write such text above after I explained what I think...Yes I understood you, but I don't agree with you. I don't think you understand me, actually. Show off? About what? This is why giving out coords in official channels is not legal I did not talk about this at all. Please re-read my post. It was an example, along with some other examples, to show that we enforce this policy in other things as well as the ones you specifically mentioned. All I said is this: I want information about new ITEMS and/or CREATURES:1) their name(s) 2) (optionally) their stats I disagree on this as well. Most animal/monster stats are misleading anyway, and so many other variables affect a player's ability to kill them. Phys/coord, armour...you know the drill. We encourage players to think for themselves and to try things out...to experiment...by trial and error they learn what they can handle and how to determine that for themselves under differing circumstances. Please explain to me how can one player with 1kgc in storage "go look" for, for an instance, staff of protection? It is IMPOSSIBLE to "look for"!!! But this is not the main question, the main question is - HOW that person would even go looking for something (s)he does not even KNOW it exists? I have heard about staff of protection month after the update! And how could I know it's stats? How could I know whether I would need that item or not? - I need to KNOW what it does in order to be interested in "looking for it"!!! If Radu says "there are two rare items", at least he could say their names, and what those items DO. It is IMHO stupid to buy an item which cost 100kgc just to "look into" and get information about, don't You agree? And again question is how to know about its existence... Not at all. Just because you don't know an item exists doesn't mean you won't find it! Again, some of these things are meant to be a surprise! A surprise rare monster drop, or a surprise npc selling surprise items, or a surprise new stone while harvesting...these are things you will discover while going about your other activities. By us telling you "there are 2 new rare items", it's a teaser to encourage people to talk to each other and get out there and poke around! As far as the manu recipes for items...we only keep that secret for a short amount of time...enough to let the experimenters have their fun and play around with it...but within a week usually, we release the formula. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ornitorrinco Report post Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) I think new animals and maps should be kept secret... About new items I think their name should be given and only this. Edited March 9, 2006 by Ornitorrinco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arnieman Report post Posted March 10, 2006 If you pay attention or just have patience, you can find out about a lot of things - within the very first hour of the new "items", I knew the names of both. In fact, I was even able to joke about some players' abbreviation for one of the items, for awhile. Right now, I'm hoping before long, I can hold one or both items for myself - I got a rare harvestable today, but it was a rostogal (yeah, I'm sure some of you would kill for my "disappointment" ). Personally, as for the new formulas, I'm kinda curious - I'd kinda like to know at least what skill these "formulas" go to, but I'm patient - I'll wait. I'd rather enjoy the journey and never reach my destination, than be sadly disappointed racing for the finish line and missing key details. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
