Books and experience

[clmates]

Hi to All.

 

First of all, excuse my bad english ;-)

 

I have two ideas to expose:

 

First is about booke reading and experience.

 

I think that book reading not only have to allow you to access the use of some item or allow you to do something like harvest iron, etc.

 

 

I think that when you read a book, you gain knowledge and this knowledge should act as an experience boost on the book topic. ie:

 

When you read Combat Tactics you should have more knowledge of combat (attack and defense), than before, thus you should gain more experience in your next combats at least until you reach a certain attack and defense level that need more knowledge. (for example, Combat Tactics boost attack and defense experience by 50 % until Attack and defense reach 20 respectively), then to gain again a new boost, you should read a high level combat book.

 

This could be applied to all kind of books. ie, Iron Mining should boost your harvest experience, Iron Molding should boost your Manufacturing Experience, etc, etc.

 

 

you could scale up the boost % and level to make it progressive.

 

Also, you could begin to note the boost as you begin the new read, but not get the complete boost until you doesn't finish the reading. ie, if you have readed a 10 % of the book, you get the 10% of the boost...

 

 

Second is about Teaching:

 

Teaching could be implemented as an hability.

 

To teach something you need rationality, charm and the knowledge you will teach.

 

The objetive of teaching is to boost the gained experience of the alumn, this boost will only be gained durin the teaching.

 

To make the teaching, the teacher and the alumn must be close (like trading), and must begin a teach (we need a button :-)

 

the teacher must have more experience than the alumn.

 

To teach both players must do the same action, for example, if i want to learn manufacturing, both my master and i have to manufactur the same items. But observing a few rules:

 

1. The alumn can manufacture 5 items for each Master Item.

2. The if the master fails the manufacturing, the alumn wont get any boost until the Master success.

3. The % of success of the alumn get a bonus if the master success.

4. The boost the alumn gets is a % related to the diference it has with his master, affected by rationality and charm of the master.

 

The % of success bonus = ( Level of the Master - Level of The alumn ) * 1 %

 

The % of Experience boost = ( Level of the Master - Level of The alumn ) * Master Charm * (Master Rationality / 10 ) * 10 %

 

For example.

 

My Master has:

- Manufacturing of 50

- Charm 4

- Rationality 5

 

I Have:

- Manufacturing 7

- Charm 5

- Rationality 6

 

% of success bonus (if my master suceed) = 50 -7 = 43 %

 

% of experience boost = ( 50 -7 ) * 4 * ( 5 / 10 ) * 10 = 43 * 4 * 0,5 = 86 %

 

That is if i suceed manufacturing (i have 43 % more posibilities that manufacturing alone), and i get the normal experience plus a 86% more (for example i i will get 70 exp manufacturing alone, i will get 70 * 1,86 = 130 exp)

 

My Charm and Rationality doesn't modify anithing (my rationality already influence the experience i get )

 

This will take a use for Charm, make another element of RP in the game, and anbother way to get cash for .....

 

 

I hope all of you like this ideas.

 

Greetings

[clmates]

Hi again.

 

i'm hearing something about a dweling system. this will fit perfectly with the Teaching Button perhaps 2 modes, teaching or Training in training no bonuses no one is master and in teaching there are a Master and an alumn.

 

 

 

Hi to All.

 

First of all, excuse my bad english ;-)

 

I have two ideas to expose:

 

First is about booke reading and experience.

 

I think that book reading not only have to allow you to access the use of some item or allow you to do something like harvest iron, etc.

 

 

I think that when you read a book, you gain knowledge and this knowledge should act as an experience boost on the book topic. ie:

 

When you read Combat Tactics you should have more knowledge of combat (attack and defense), than before, thus you should gain more experience in your next combats at least until you reach a certain attack and defense level that need more knowledge. (for example, Combat Tactics boost attack and defense experience by 50 % until Attack and defense reach 20 respectively), then to gain again a new boost, you should read a high level combat book.

 

This could be applied to all kind of books. ie, Iron Mining should boost your harvest experience, Iron Molding should boost your Manufacturing Experience, etc, etc.

 

 

you could scale up the boost % and level to make it progressive.

 

Also, you could begin to note the boost as you begin the new read, but not get the complete boost until you doesn't finish the reading. ie, if you have readed a 10 % of the book, you get the 10% of the boost...

 

 

Second is about Teaching:

 

Teaching could be implemented as an hability.

 

To teach something you need rationality, charm and the knowledge you will teach.

 

The objetive of teaching is to boost the gained experience of the alumn, this boost will only be gained durin the teaching.

 

To make the teaching, the teacher and the alumn must be close (like trading), and must begin a teach (we need a button :-)

 

the teacher must have more experience than the alumn.

 

To teach both players must do the same action, for example, if i want to learn manufacturing, both my master and i have to manufactur the same items. But observing a few rules:

 

1. The alumn can manufacture 5 items for each Master Item.

2. The if the master fails the manufacturing, the alumn wont get any boost until the Master success.

3. The % of success of the alumn get a bonus if the master success.

4. The boost the alumn gets is a % related to the diference it has with his master, affected by rationality and charm of the master.

 

The % of success bonus = ( Level of the Master - Level of The alumn ) * 1 %

 

The % of Experience boost = ( Level of the Master - Level of The alumn ) * Master Charm * (Master Rationality / 10 ) * 10 %

 

For example.

 

My Master has:

- Manufacturing of 50

- Charm 4

- Rationality 5

 

I Have:

- Manufacturing 7

- Charm 5

- Rationality 6

 

% of success bonus (if my master suceed) = 50 -7 = 43 %

 

% of experience boost = ( 50 -7 ) * 4 * ( 5 / 10 ) * 10 = 43 * 4 * 0,5 = 86 %

 

That is if i suceed manufacturing (i have 43 % more posibilities that manufacturing alone), and i get the normal experience plus a 86% more (for example i i will get 70 exp manufacturing alone, i will get 70 * 1,86 = 130 exp)

 

My Charm and Rationality doesn't modify anithing (my rationality already influence the experience i get )

 

This will take a use for Charm, make another element of RP in the game, and anbother way to get cash for .....

 

 

I hope all of you like this ideas.

 

Greetings

[LemonStar]

Hmm, the idea of teaching sounds like a descent one, giving a boost to the % sucsess seems a good idea, though the experiance boost that you have there is HUGE! God's only give a 20% boost, and with that calculation giving you anothe 86% that is over 100% extra exp, which seems to high. It takes time to lvl up.

[clmates]

Hi.

 

Hmm, the idea of teaching sounds like a descent one, giving a boost to the % sucsess seems a good idea, though the experiance boost that you have there is HUGE! God's only give a 20% boost, and with that calculation giving you anothe 86% that is over 100% extra exp, which seems to high. It takes time to lvl up.

 

You gain the normal exp plus a 86% in this case, the master much better than the alumn.

 

Well, the values could be adjusted, i used this values to explain the idea, ofcourse it has to be balanced.

 

But, the Gods bonus is free, and the training must give you benefits, because it will be not free for sure.

 

The Alumn must pay for training in most of the cases, and both the alumn and the master spend time, and materials to make the training efective. and also, the % diminish as you level up..

 

Perhaps the values should be adjusted like :

The % of Experience boost = ( Level of the Master - Level of The alumn ) * Master Charm * (Master Rationality / 10 ) * 5 %

 

or

 

The % of Experience boost = ( Level of the Master - Level of The alumn ) * Master Charm * (Master Rationality / 10 ) * 2 %

 

 

but if you low it too much, no one wil have interest in training because the time to meet the master and the cost of the trainee will not make it profitable.

 

You should think that the master get no other benefit that the money, or another kind of trade (perhaps be alumn for other skill)

 

 

but it will be spending materials and time with no profit but the cost of the training, because it must do a action wich is a low level action (low exp gained) for the alumn to could replicate.

[Vanyel]

1. No to experience from books. Experience is gaining with practice not book knowledge.

2. It can't work like this - too many ways of abusing it. Teaching is nice idea in game, however I would rather prefer it as an NPC side, or in a bit different form.

Nice idea is using charm for this skill.

[Gen_Axis]

And once again: LOOK AT THE TOP OF THIS FORUM

It says in suggestion forum rules:

1. Do a search or read previous posts BEFORE making a suggestion in this forum!

Teaching was ALREADY suggested before at least twice times :|

 

As for second: exp boosting, thats nice idea, at least for low level players in different skills. It would be nice to get extra exp UNTILL set level reached.

[Vanyel]

It might work, but the limit levels must be set carefully - no too high. You can be taught basics, but mastery is only case of practise.

[clmates]

Hi.

 

1. No to experience from books. Experience is gaining with practice not book knowledge.

2. It can't work like this - too many ways of abusing it. Teaching is nice idea in game, however I would rather prefer it as an NPC side, or in a bit different form.

Nice idea is using charm for this skill.

 

1. Well i say it should boost your experience gain, not directly experience given. Why a non reading person should gain the same experience that one that learns and gains knowledge of the basics that make the foundation of one skill?

 

 

2. Perhaps it could be limited in some ways ie: you have to reach a master knowledge in one hability to become a Master and could teach, or you have to have twice the level of your pupil for the teaching to be possible?. I discarded the NPC option because it doesn't give the game any RPG or sociability.

 

 

Hi.

 

And once again: LOOK AT THE TOP OF THIS FORUM

It says in suggestion forum rules:

1. Do a search or read previous posts BEFORE making a suggestion in this forum!

Teaching was ALREADY suggested before at least twice times :|

 

As for second: exp boosting, thats nice idea, at least for low level players in different skills. It would be nice to get extra exp UNTILL set level reached.

 

Sorry, Excuse me.

 

The main idea was experience boost reading, the teaching was a complement. ;-)

 

Hi.

 

It might work, but the limit levels must be set carefully - no too high. You can be taught basics, but mastery is only case of practise.

 

Yes, i think this should be the low levels more attractive, because you could grow faster in the low levels of each skill (powered by book reading), and get to mid level aided by your guild masters, but being a master should always be gained with practice.

 

Perhaps teaching shouldn't get any effect when you reach a certain level. (ie 50)

[Vanyel]

50?! you're crazy. I was thinking about something closer to 20 :/

Level 50 in any skill beside a/d is really high.

 

Books in game aren't something that gains your knowledge, but rather let you do some things.

Once again, combat books are exception.

Without reading book of 'Health Essence' you can't do this. There is no need to give additional bonus to it.

[clmates]

Hi.

 

50?! you're crazy. I was thinking about something closer to 20 :/

Level 50 in any skill beside a/d is really high.

 

Books in game aren't something that gains your knowledge, but rather let you do some things.

Once again, combat books are exception.

Without reading book of 'Health Essence' you can't do this. There is no need to give additional bonus to it.

 

 

I'm refering to the teaching, not to the experience boost, for teaching 20 seems to low, perhaps 50 is too high, what about 30?

 

And for the exp boost, yes the book Health essence should not give you any boost, but what about anathomy, or the low level books you need to read before?, i'm refering to these books that give you not special knowledge.

 

Perhaps this could lead to the aparition of other books that only give you some "master" in a already known skill. What about of a Mastering Heal Essence book, that after reading it gives you a bonus making HE? or a Iron Secrets, that gives you a bonus over all iron manufacturing?. The exp boost or % of success bonus have a lot of potential.

[Derin]

And for the exp boost, yes the book Health essence should not give you any boost, but what about anathomy, or the low level books you need to read before?, i'm refering to these books that give you not special knowledge.

But they do give you special knowledge, it is just not that obvious. The Anatomy book is a prerequisite for reading more books down that particular knowledge path. This means that you lack the basic knowledge of a more "advanced" book until you have read the basics, or starter books.

[gurgeh]

I like the idea of "Reading books should give experience" but i think should be like this... exactly like this.

 

An experience based on the value of the book in gc and in the area of knowledge:

 

Reading again "Book of Gold Smelting" (250gc at NPC) = +250 exp in alchemy when finished.

Reading again "Moon Medallion Building" (10k at NPC) = +10k exp in crafting when finished.

 

and so on...

 

In fact this is no more than a variation of Ent's manu idea, and i think this will solve the problem of the dropable books price.

[Derin]

I like the idea of "Reading books should give experience" but i think should be like this... exactly like this.

 

An experience based on the value of the book in gc and in the area of knowledge:

 

Reading again "Book of Gold Smelting" (250gc at NPC) = +250 exp in alchemy when finished.

Reading again "Moon Medallion Building" (10k at NPC) = +10k exp in crafting when finished.

 

and so on...

 

In fact this is no more than a variation of Ent's manu idea, and i think this will solve the problem of the dropable books price.

Ok, that could work with some tweaking. I am leaning towards liking it

[clmates]

Hi

 

And for the exp boost, yes the book Health essence should not give you any boost, but what about anathomy, or the low level books you need to read before?, i'm refering to these books that give you not special knowledge.

But they do give you special knowledge, it is just not that obvious. The Anatomy book is a prerequisite for reading more books down that particular knowledge path. This means that you lack the basic knowledge of a more "advanced" book until you have read the basics, or starter books.

 

Exactly!!. You have more base knowledge that others that hasn't read any book, but, does this new knowledge not give you any advantage from your practices? Because you have more knowledge of the basics, the related habilities should deliver more experience form their practice. ie, when you have the theorem of pitagoras knowledge, you don't already know structural mechanichs, but when you practice a related hability such as static, the theorems helps you understanding the composition of forces. => the basic of phishics (geometry)

 

This example could be applicable to anathomy, is a requisite for Health essence, but it should help you to understand better the basics of alchemy, thus givin an experience boost (up to a base level) tho the lower alchemy uses.

 

Other application is combat tactics, could give a exp boost up to a basic attack and defense level to the combats you have with low level enemies (because you know base tactics you learn better from your practice)

 

This could be applicabe to almost all base knowledges.

 

 

 

Hi.

 

I like the idea of "Reading books should give experience" but i think should be like this... exactly like this.

 

An experience based on the value of the book in gc and in the area of knowledge:

 

Reading again "Book of Gold Smelting" (250gc at NPC) = +250 exp in alchemy when finished.

Reading again "Moon Medallion Building" (10k at NPC) = +10k exp in crafting when finished.

 

and so on...

 

In fact this is no more than a variation of Ent's manu idea, and i think this will solve the problem of the dropable books price.

Ok, that could work with some tweaking. I am leaning towards liking it

 

 

Well, this is not exactly the same, this not relate the experience to the practice, i think this is a worst option people with no interest in the ability will read the book because is trading gc for exp with no practice nor waste of materials.

[gurgeh]

 

Well, this is not exactly the same, this not relate the experience to the practice, i think this is a worst option people with no interest in the ability will read the book because is trading gc for exp with no practice nor waste of materials.

 

i don't think so, reading a book it's not automatic, usually take a lot of time, so i hope people will trade their non interesting area books for the ones of the skill they want to improve.

 

and about relating experience to the practice... how many books (and not only once each book) do you think an engineer should read to improve?

[clmates]

Hi

 

 

Well, this is not exactly the same, this not relate the experience to the practice, i think this is a worst option people with no interest in the ability will read the book because is trading gc for exp with no practice nor waste of materials.

 

i don't think so, reading a book it's not automatic, usually take a lot of time, so i hope people will trade their non interesting area books for the ones of the skill they want to improve.

 

and about relating experience to the practice... how many books (and not only once each book) do you think an engineer should read to improve?

 

The improvement is gained when the engineer put in practice the knowledge learned from the books.

 

Read book => more knowledge

Practice => more experience

 

if you only do practice without reading the book, you get experience, but in a minor rate, because you lack the knowledge of the basics that give you the vision of the foundations of that experience.

 

when an engineer read a book of fluid mechanichs it gaings knowledge about fluids, but it also gaing knowledge of oscillations and harmonics. gain knowledge, but no experience.

 

when this engineer do a task based on oscillations he get more experience after he knows fluids mechanics, because he got more foundation of the use and it's related knowledges.

 

 

IMHO.

 

PS: i'm engineer ;-)

[gurgeh]

Hi

 

The improvement is gained when the engineer put in practice the knowledge learned from the books.

 

Read book => more knowledge

Practice => more experience

 

if you only do practice without reading the book, you get experience, but in a minor rate, because you lack the knowledge of the basics that give you the vision of the foundations of that experience.

 

when an engineer read a book of fluid mechanichs it gaings knowledge about fluids, but it also gaing knowledge of oscillations and harmonics. gain knowledge, but no experience.

 

when this engineer do a task based on oscillations he get more experience after he knows fluids mechanics, because he got more foundation of the use and it's related knowledges.

 

 

IMHO.

 

PS: i'm engineer ;-)

 

Hi again :-)

 

Where the experience and the knowledge are storaged? it's the same one thing and the other? in which part of the cognition procedure do you need to invest more time?.

 

Well there are a lot of questions and polemic in this topics. It's a very interesting theme.

 

Sadly English isn't my strong point so its a pity we can't have a longest chat about this very nice topic.

 

It's good that science isn't something unknown to you so i can freely remind you the spirit of Occam's Razor. The simplest solution it's always the best one.

 

Anyway after reading your first post again, i realized that our systems are not dealing with the same issue, they can be implemented together, I was only providing an idea to solve the market books price problem.

 

PS: if you mind this things, i'm physicist and a scinece teacher.

[clmates]

 

Hi again :-)

 

Where the experience and the knowledge are storaged? it's the same one thing and the other? in which part of the cognition procedure do you need to invest more time?.

 

Well there are a lot of questions and polemic in this topics. It's a very interesting theme.

 

Sadly English isn't my strong point so its a pity we can't have a longest chat about this very nice topic.

 

It's good that science isn't something unknown to you so i can freely remind you the spirit of Occam's Razor. The simplest solution it's always the best one.

 

Anyway after reading your first post again, i realized that our systems are not dealing with the same issue, they can be implemented together, I was only providing an idea to solve the market books price problem.

 

PS: if you mind this things, i'm physicist and a scinece teacher.

 

 

Yes, this is a very polemic and interesting theme, but i'm sure that there is not easy to implement a realisthic and balanced solution. Thus a compromise solution could be implemented. Is up to the developers to evaluate the idoneity of this ideas and the best implementation approach.

 

In terms of balancing market prices, is there another topic and i think the ideas appoint in the good direction. In fact the price of each NPC should be based in the stock they have, the total game stock for this item and the production cost, but well, better post in the topic post.

 

PS: I don't put the title in front of the person :-D