Patch: nicer rain, perspective view

[Lachesis]

What bugs? :>

[ttlanhil]

new screenie from the latest update: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/ttlanhil/new_rain2.jpg

looking even better. but if you look up top you can see where the edge of the world is

perhaps if there was a kinda blend instead of a hard edge it'd be harder to notice? things like this are more noticable from being able to see further with perspective

[Lachesis]

Can you make that screenie without rain so that I can see what you mean? :>

Btw, the screenshots are not very meaningful with the new highly-transparent rain drops. You hardly see them in screenshots, their full effect is only visible in animation I wish I could take screen films

 

P.S. I walked there and saw what you mean. It's not really the end of the world, just the map author did not add enough water tiles. Did I maybe accidentally increase the max zoom? Since it's the same in isometric view. I hope we'll be able to fix the map issues soon

Edited July 26, 2005 by Lachesis

[Placid]

When using perspective view, one thing I noticed, when zooming full into the character, 'spotlights' dissapear.

If you zoom out, bit-by-bit, they appear rather strangely...Here's some screenies:

One

Two

Three

Four

 

To see what I mean properly, you'll need to click the last and go back through each image one by one.

 

Not sure if its a problem, but it doesn't look the best. I'd assume this is a map problem moreso than a client (or a collaboration of both).

 

This is using a CVS shot of 26 July ~2000 hours.

[Vegar]

When using perspective view, one thing I noticed, when zooming full into the character, 'spotlights' dissapear.

If you zoom out, bit-by-bit, they appear rather strangely...Here's some screenies:

One

Two

Three

Four

 

To see what I mean properly, you'll need to click the last and go back through each image one by one.

 

Not sure if its a problem, but it doesn't look the best. I'd assume this is a map problem moreso than a client (or a collaboration of both).

 

This is using a CVS shot of 26 July ~2000 hours.

183329[/snapback]

It's a client bug, and it works with isometric view too.

Looks like that light is following the camera.

[ttlanhil]

hey! why didn't anyone tell me EL could be 1st person?

 

http://photobucket.com/albums/b62/ttlanhil...perspective.jpg

 

http://photobucket.com/albums/b62/ttlanhil...erspective2.jpg

 

(okay, so that's just putting the char to the side and cranking the perspective waaay up... but still)

 

 

edit: I think this one is even cooler! http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/ttla...erspective3.jpg

 

(though for this to really work we need to start having a real sky/ceiling, which would make reflections work properly as well)

 

 

 

 

you can see wya too far with this though... one possible solution, something like the fog of war from strategy games... at around the distance stuff dissapears at, have a ring of blurriness that stuff appears out of. with that and a real sky rendering (and have the water reflect the sky render instead of clouds on surface)... we would be almost 1st person view ready!

okay, so that's not so exciting. but 3rd person over the shoulder looks cooler than birdseye view

Edited July 27, 2005 by ttlanhil

[pennifuin]

Loving this new view, something for the more 'creative' persons in el.

 

effects of persp on name tags.

 

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8650/perspnames2jf.png

 

the fog and rain:)

 

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4262/perspfog6zq.png

 

what an ugly mug you have ttl:P

 

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6749/ttlface8ps.png

 

lost in mm...EEP!

 

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/11/lostinfog3mv.png

 

more to come kiddos.

Edited July 27, 2005 by pennifuin

[Placid]

O M G

 

That looks absolutely amazing?!!!!! Could we get this in ELConfig so it can be configurable for people?

[Learner]

I think we need to be able to disable the fog from raining effect. It at times makes the game almost unplayable, plus slower machine could bog down with it. If we don't I expect that it will be one of the first hacks going in.

[Placid]

Bug: When its raining heavy and there is fog, enter a house, then walk back out. Sometimes the rain doesn't start again for a short delay, sometimes it just doesn't start at all.

[Wytter]

Disable fog in house insides (map_io.c - if it's a cave or not).

[Vegar]

O M G

 

That looks absolutely amazing?!!!!! Could we get this in ELConfig so it can be configurable for people?

183527[/snapback]

It is.

Advanced video -> Perspective

[Placid]

It is.

Advanced video -> Perspective

183558[/snapback]

Forget this, updated CVS.

[Lachesis]

I think we need to be able to disable the fog from raining effect. It at times makes the game almost unplayable, plus slower machine could bog down with it. If we don't I expect that it will be one of the first hacks going in.

183529[/snapback]

With the same argumentation I remember banging my head against a brick wall ... But you're right IMO, especially on slow machines it might be an issue. On the other hand, I don't like the image of players disabling fog just so that they can see more. That's the reason why I haven't put such an option yet. Additional note: You can zoom in to see more, too, and on the new server only very few rainfalls will be as heavy as those on the main server now.

 

Bug: When its raining heavy and there is fog, enter a house, then walk back out. Sometimes the rain doesn't start again for a short delay, sometimes it just doesn't start at all.

183542[/snapback]

This is a server issue, the rain display depends on what the server sends to the client.

 

Disable fog in house insides (map_io.c - if it's a cave or not).

183557[/snapback]

There are big caves. Dungeons and night maps have darker fog. Maybe it's not dark enough yet, I will try to tweak that. Since there are big dungeons, I'm not sure if disabling is such a good idea.

 

It is.

Advanced video -> Perspective

183558[/snapback]

You have "isometric" in Video, which lets you enable or disable orthographic projection. If you disable it, you will have perspective. The settings in advanced video are for users that are not satisfied with the perspective angle (perspective setting) or the clipping (near plane setting). These are advanced settings, please read the hints in the config window and in el.ini.

Edited July 27, 2005 by Lachesis

[Learner]

They already put in super zoom so they can see more, some people have admitted they turn off the darkness in caves. So, expect they will disble the fog. Wonder if anyone has disabled the rain?

[crusadingknight]

I have 30-50% performance drop when fog is enabled.

182654[/snapback]

Then why isn't there a variable to disable fog, and one to reduce rain (I mean, make the rain percentage from el.ini, and the fog enable/disable)... the client becomes useless if only people with 400$ video cards and 2.6 GHz+ processors can use it.

[kl4Uz]

Then why isn't there a variable to disable fog, and one to reduce rain (I mean, make the rain percentage from el.ini, and the fog enable/disable)... the client becomes useless if only people with 400$ video cards and 2.6 GHz+ processors can use it.

183756[/snapback]

 

I don't think it's okay to get a gameplay advantage by disabling graphical features. And I think it's time to let people know, that it's maybe not a good idea to run elc in windowed mode together with a music player and a bunch of browser windows. The fullscreen mode is usually the better choice - performance-wise.

 

I can accept disabling the fog IF objects that would be covered in fog otherwise and therefor invisible would not be rendered by the client when disabling fog. I think that'd be a good compromise.

[Learner]

I don't think it's okay to get a gameplay advantage by disabling graphical features. And I think it's time to let people know, that it's maybe not a good idea to run elc in windowed mode together with a music player and a bunch of browser windows. The fullscreen mode is usually the better choice - performance-wise.

 

I can accept disabling the fog IF objects that would be covered in fog otherwise and therefor invisible would not be rendered by the client when disabling fog. I think that'd be a good compromise.

183871[/snapback]

Remember that the source to the client is avialable, people will make changes they want, whether the rules allow it or not.

 

Plus, we need to allow for slower systems as well.

[ttlanhil]

I think it's time to let people know, that it's maybe not a good idea to run elc in windowed mode together with a music player and a bunch of browser windows. The fullscreen mode is usually the better choice - performance-wise.

183871[/snapback]

bleh. I'm usually on two EL servers (main and testing) as well as the forums, and sometimes other stuff too. full screen isn't gonna work (unless I can somehow hook up two extra monitors )

[Lachesis]

It should be possible to use the multitexture mechanism we use for shadows for fog, too. This will be a much worse looking but also much faster alternative for people with performance issues.

 

P.S. I bought my card for 70 € about three months ago. I don't have $ 400 for a graphics card either.

P.P.S The rain is rendered in one large GL_LINES block using glVertexPointer() and should not have any performance issues on any system. It consumes about 0,6 MB memory.

Edited July 29, 2005 by Lachesis

[Mr_Maniac]

Hmm.. On my AMD Athlon Thunderbird with 1,33 GHz and a nVidia GeForce 3 EL runs very nice..

Okay... I disabled the shadows...

[kl4Uz]

Sapphire 22M310035

Sapphire Radeon 9600 256MB DDR

256MB, AGP8x, DVI, TVO, 128-Bit, 325MHz, 400MHz, 4 Pipelines, LITE-RETAIL

price: 83,21€ (in austria)

 

I use this card - nice price, nice features. More than enough for a game like EL. If people wanna play on their 486 PC, they'd better stick to text games.

 

And actually optional textures based fog is a good idea - you could make the texture resolution changeable, so people can optimize their performance.

[Entropy]

I don't think it's okay to get a gameplay advantage by disabling graphical features. And I think it's time to let people know, that it's maybe not a good idea to run elc in windowed mode together with a music player and a bunch of browser windows. The fullscreen mode is usually the better choice - performance-wise.

 

I can accept disabling the fog IF objects that would be covered in fog otherwise and therefor invisible would not be rendered by the client when disabling fog. I think that'd be a good compromise.

183871[/snapback]

 

Unfortunately, we do not live in a world where everyone has a modern computer, so we have to provide ways for those with older computers to enjoy the game.

[Learner]

Unfortunately, we do not live in a world where everyone has a modern computer, so we have to provide ways for those with older computers to enjoy the game.

184267[/snapback]

I think the highest level we should design the low end is GF2 MX, but keep in mind lots of people still use TNT2.

[kl4Uz]

I think the highest level we should design the low end is GF2 MX, but keep in mind lots of people still use TNT2.

184610[/snapback]

 

I used to play Half-Life and UT back in the days with my TNT2 - worked just fine and I can't think of any OpenGL features that these games didn't have, but EL has. All I want to say by that is that even low end hardware should be able to work with EL, of course with some losses regarding the quality of graphics (and some optimzation of the el code). But people shouldn't get gameplay advantages by lowering the gfx quality, but of course everyone should (within a certain range of computer hardware of course) be able to play EL at acceptable speed. I think the real task is to find a middle-way.