Paganism

[ttlanhil]

I needed to explain one thing, so I post again. Note that this is "a bit" offtopic and is nothing against the paganism or any other beliefs. It is sunday and I have a headache, so just bear with me...

it's not really off topic

In that sense, religions have a lack: they are hyper-ego feeders: "the only right one is me". (Statement that every religious person admit when s/he takes his/her religion consciously). Everyone should admit the posibility of errors, so, admit too the posibility that, maybe, any other person, with different beliefs is also right, and maybe, has his/her reason... "Maybe, all the beliefs are right..." I would love to see that quote written in The Holy Bibble (I know is too late for that, but to wish is for free...).

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actually, some religions don't try to claim they're the only right one. many pagan religions (since they're adapted to suit the person anyway) accept that each persons' beleifs are different, and different religions are better for different people.

 

as for all beleifs being right... well... I dunno about that, but the reason behind most religions(most, not all, because some are created as an excuse to do wrong) is right. and the intent of providing moral guidance, etc.

[m_bee]

Well, I readed again my previous post and maybe I did not explain one thing in the right way. When I talk about "the only right one is me" part, maybe I should have detailed that, that is not a religion thing... Now that I think it better, I realise that it would have been more accurate to define it like "human nature".

 

We all have, in any way or another, the tendence to think that we are right, of course, some people can admit their errors when they realise them, and there are also people that find it more difficult than another people. It is human nature to have opinions and beliefs, so there is always a chance that you are wrong in any way. The only way to prevent that is to try to be polite always, even when you don't understand other people ideas.

 

Most religions exhort you to leave any previous beliefs before going into them, but, after all, religions are made by humans and for humans, so that is not strange. I am a massive books reader (amongst other things), so I consider I have an open mind...

 

I cant believe in any of the sacred books that I have read in all my life because I have found no reason to do it, but I like being polite with all the people, regardless of the ideas they may have. I have so much religious friends, some are catholics, other believe in Ala and Mahoma, a girl that I know is buddist and an uncle of my mother believe in some kind of indian religion (I read also some books about the Baghavab Ghita that he brings me some times...). I think that the only way to open your mind about different beliefs is to read and be informed, even if you are and atheist.

 

My father, for example, is catholic, but he read books from another religions. If you are a believer, that would only reinforce your faith, and if you are not, well... then is better to realise that as soon as possible.

 

I agree with your last statement. As you say, I think that the main reson of most religions existence, is just to provide the moral support for the unwritten nature rules and also some basic social rules (that may or may not be writen). There are also religions that was created by some kind of maniatic beings just to profit from other people (like, but not limited to, the sects).

 

Most people find it easier to explain the basic social behaviour if it is linked with some methaphysical ideas: call it religion, beliefs, phylosophy, or whatever you want (I'm not saying that all these thing are the same, but, in some way, they are similar instances of the human way of doing the things...).

 

- Always a pleasure to talk with you, regards.

[ttlanhil]

Well, I readed again my previous post and maybe I did not explain one thing in the right way. When I talk about "the only right one is me" part, maybe I should have detailed that, that is not a religion thing... Now that I think it better, I realise that it would have been more accurate to define it like "human nature".

sure. though religion is a large part of what defines each of us. even if it's atheism, that's a large part of the definition.

We all have, in any way or another, the tendence to think that we are right, of course, some people can admit their errors when they realise them, and there are also people that find it more difficult than another people. It is human nature to have opinions and beliefs, so there is always a chance that you are wrong in any way. The only way to prevent that is to try to be polite always, even when you don't understand other people ideas.

it can be hard to accept other people having different opinions to something you hold dear. even harder to support them to be different. I'll go sidetrack myself into the pagan thing again. some families of witches will teach their children about a number of religions, and push them to explore more themselves. and many covens will not accept members under 18 (generally adjusted for the local adult age), having to be old enough to be sure you have decided for yourself that the religion matches you. help and guidance is given to those under 18 of course.

Most religions exhort you to leave any previous beliefs before going into them, but, after all, religions are made by humans and for humans, so that is not strange. I am a massive books reader (amongst other things), so I consider I have an open mind...

in part, this is very good and right, in that you can only have the one religion. but it's also wrong because those who insist you must forget your previous religion are usually also the ones who will tell you how to beleive what you do

I cant believe in any of the sacred books that I have read in all my life because I have found no reason to do it, but I like being polite with all the people, regardless of the ideas they may have. I have so much religious friends, some are catholics, other believe in Ala and Mahoma, a girl that I know is buddist and an uncle of my mother believe in some kind of indian religion (I read also some books about the Baghavab Ghita that he brings me some times...). I think that the only way to open your mind about different beliefs is to read and be informed, even if you are and atheist.

and talking to people calmly, sure. and going onto another sidetrack, that of religious jokes. some of these really are wrong and bad, but some are good. those who can laugh at their own religion are generally a lot better off than those who can't... lets face it, life is pretty funny, and if there is a divine being, they gotta be laughing

those who can't laugh at themselves are usually the ones giving their religion a bad name and causing trouble

Most people find it easier to explain the basic social behaviour if it is linked with some methaphysical ideas: call it religion, beliefs, phylosophy, or whatever you want (I'm not saying that all these thing are the same, but, in some way, they are similar instances of the human way of doing the things...).

they tend towards explaining similar things, so it's close enough for comparison 8^)

- Always a pleasure to talk with you, regards.

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aww shucks

debates and such are fun while all stay cool-headed

[m_bee]

One thing about the "pop culture" thing.

 

I wouldn't argue about that, what today is pop culture could be tomorrow's religion, and vice-versa. No offense intended, understand me, please. The actual religions also started at one point, and, on the moment they was born, thy could be considered also pop culture, that spreaded amongst the people, from mouth to mouth. The only difference about both things is how seriously do the people take each thing.

 

What ones consider pop culture, is for other a deep belief, a way of life... Artists, that may be considered pop people feel the same kind of devotion for the art, something that I could describe as misticall. I have no god in my life, but I can swear that I feel a religious experience when I go to watch a jazz concert. For me god called Jaco Pastorius, and died killed too, like Jesus. And I can't describe with words the joy that you feel when you are over a stage playing the guitar along with some band, and then comes the guitar solo, and then I reach heavens... . I can swear that I need the music to live, other way I would feel like being hailed.

 

For other people it can be a different thing. For me is the music, for others can be literature and cinema, for other the religion is a must, and they can't experience the same feeling with any other thing. Really, I don't think that a relatively short story like the cristianism is better than any other beliefs. Of course, all the catholic people are in their right to think that they are right, in fact, they need to think that, because any other way their faith would be gone.

 

I say, leave everyone take their own beliefs, after all, we are all humans, and need nice stories and explanation for the thing we dont know. We need to believe that this world is better, we think, and as thinking being that we are we have no option but try to explain all the things we know, everyone needs to find a way. I found mine and I am a happy and atheist man, I can swear it.

[Lyanna]

Sorry, just lightly intruding on the discussion here...

 

I'm just curious about one thing, Aerowind... why did you choose to become a Pagan?

 

How do you view the choice of your beliefs? Do you view it as a personal taste (ie. you pick whatever you like and that seems to suit you the most), or do you view it as a search for absolute truth? (ie. there exists an underlying supernatural truth/reality out there somewhere, and all religions try to describe it, but you pick the one that comes closest to the truth)

 

This seems to me to be one of the fundamental issues that would also be relevant to that big discussion going on in the previous posts, but I'll let you guys debate it out. I'm just interested in the reason behind Aerowind's choice.

 

-Lyn-

Edited July 11, 2005 by Lyanna

[Aerowind]

hmm... I chose it because I like nature (mainly what the religion is based on) and it's fundamentals. I like what it states and the freedom of it. Also the fact I've always believed I've had untapped magick and Paganism supports that.

[Entropy]

I am somewhat a pagan myself, and I did practice some magik for a while, with some moderate success. I have a few books about various magic practice, such as Chaos Magic.

[Kala]

I am somewhat a pagan myself, and I did practice some magik for a while, with some moderate success. I have a few books about various magic practice, such as Chaos Magic.

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Radu was a fluffy bunny, too!

[Aerowind]

Hmm... interesting Ent, you would of never struck me as that type (or maybe you would... VOTE NADER!!!!! lol)

 

And there was religion basically from the beginning of time (or since humans) and that was Paganism, indians are Pagans, africans tribes are pagan and they've been around the longest (or most indians and african tribes are pagan that is)

[Kala]

Paganism is everything that can't fit into Christianity. Except Agnosticism and Atheism.

[Entropy]

I am a pretty open minded person, and I like to study various occult stuff, and things like astrology. I even tried various divination techniques, but I am not good at divination.

[m_bee]

Paganism is everything that can't fit into Christianity. Except Agnosticism and Atheism.

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Agreed. If you are not with the majority, then you are pagan. It is anolog to being a barbarian="all the people that did not belong the the Roman empire".

 

BTW, I think that the difference between religion and magic are not so great. Just superficial. Since both of them relly on a superior force (may call it divinity, god, spirits or cosmic forces, or whatever you call them) to accomplish tasks that human can0't usually do for themselves. For me there is no technicall difference between adoring the Hinduist trinity, the cristian trinity, the devil, the nature or the cosmos.

 

Atheism is the negation of these. To be an atheist you just need to confide in yourself.

Agnosticism can be defined as "I dont know about that, so I cant make an opinion", wich is also a way to not go wrong, but never find a truth, that is fine if you are not looking for one.

 

I am just atheist.

[Entropy]

I agree, there is virtually no difference between religion and magic. However, some magic practicians do not belive in a god/intelligence behind everything, they just believe in the capacity of our mind to alter the current and future events in such ways that we gain some profit out of it.

[rasberrybeard]

Right if I can make a love spell that makes jessica alba love me I will convert.

 

 

:lol:

Edited August 4, 2005 by scarab2k

[Kala]

That's easy. Just close your eyes and go unconscious.

[sparhawk]

i say angelina jolie not jessica alba

[rasberrybeard]

i say angelina jolie not jessica alba

 

I agree for the most part, but Angelina is starting to get older. So I go for the fresh meat

[Mireille]

I agree for the most part, but Angelina is starting to get older. So I go for the fresh meat 

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Eek... young girls...

[sparhawk]

Is this pagan?i know alot abot the pantheon mytholagy so much i almost beliave in the stories and gods.and ive noticed that cristianity and the reast of the jewish religions(btw im a cristian) copy there writings and even myths

[Grum]

I am a pretty open minded person, and I like to study various occult stuff, and things like astrology. I even tried various divination techniques, but I am not good at divination.

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Can't blame you. I don't think anyone is.

 

You can start calling me closed-minded now.

 

PS: agnosticism holds that it is fundamentally impossible to prove whether or not there is a God. As such, it is stronger than saying "I don't know". It also doesn't exclude a belief in God, it's perfectly possible to believe in a deity while at the same time believing that it's impossible to prove he/she/it exists.

[ttlanhil]

stuff that people of some faiths may dislike follows. don't highlight is unless you're willing to acept it as my opinion and respond (or not) rationally

well... I can prove that an omnipotent god doesn't exist...

think about this... could god make a rock so heavy that he could not move it?

he's either unable to make it, or unable to move it. either way, omnipotence is impossible

[sparhawk]

you know the story of noahs ark?well its a direct copy from the myth the great flood.and the story of adam and eve is a direct copy of the creation story of protheimus and god would fit in with the greek prophicy(one day zues youll have a son that will over throw you)and doesnt gabreail sound like hermes and appolo?and eve is like pandora.i agree with you tthanhil i think its inpossible to be ommnepotent(btw folks dont talk to your preist about this)

Edited August 5, 2005 by sparhawk

[Kala]

Right if I can make a love spell that makes jessica alba love me I will convert. 

  :lol:

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I can't believe it, but while digging through a book about herbs, I found something. Not a spell, but if you gather hensbane at dawn while nude and standing on one foot, and carry the herb in a charm bag, then it will make women fall in love with you.

 

Seriously, the book said that.

 

Herbal Magick by Gerina Dunwich (page 81, first paragraph).

[Mireille]

I can't believe it, but while digging through a book about herbs, I found something. Not a spell, but if you gather hensbane at dawn while nude and standing on one foot, and carry the herb in a charm bag, then it will make women fall in love with you.

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You are being narrow-minded. :angry2:

[Kala]

You are being narrow-minded.  :angry2:

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Being yelled at by mods will make you that way.