New Manufacturing System

[Tropicano]

I like this idea alot, even tho i dont manufacture alot. As roja said, this would make amnufacturing more fun, and might get me to try it out as well someone said something about "What aboult lvling?!"... well, sincve it takes much longer to obtain the ingreds for an item, and therefor much longer to cunstruct it - the required lvls for each item would simply have to be lowerd, right? but this is all a matter of balancing, and that cant really be done untill the system itself is implented.

[Earl]

Make sure Baostas get himself the most impressive forge in that case. I do all the best manufacturing under his watchful eye. Make him a bone temple, enough people have brought him enough bones by now.

 

I think that weapons leaving the game is not really a big issue right now. I want to know how money leaves the game. Wine, leather, gem sanders, Tankel, Viktor's cloaks... Apart from those I think money is not leaving the game as most trade happens at market.

[Tropicano]

in order to get the money to leave the game the item priced in stores would have to be lowerd alot... Alot. the prices as they are right now are insane, and therefor noone ever uses the blacksmith's. By lowering them to a decent price ppl might actually overlook the possibility to buy a weapon in a store if no weapons of that kind are available at the market, rather than to wait for it to get avaiable.

[Lyanna]

I think that weapons leaving the game is not really a big issue right now. I want to know how money leaves the game. Wine, leather, gem sanders, Tankel, Viktor's cloaks... Apart from those I think money is not leaving the game as most trade happens at market.

This would actualy belong in a whole separate topic by itself, but for now, we're not going to go there since we want to keep the discussion about the proposed manufacturing system. However, I can tell you that there are already ideas being discussed about how to drain money from the game.

 

-Lyn-

[jakoblin]

omg these are runescape ideas.

 

learning something while playing game.

 

mining sumthin to make bars = learning like the game runescape

[Lyanna]

Yes, these are like Runescape ideas. Why? Because both it and Runescape's system are based on a little thing called Real Life. Now, back to topic...

 

-Lyn-

[The_Piper]

@wytter

 

I know thats the status quo, thats why i was writing "it can be done with the actual system" ;-)

 

Ok,

 

why not like this? You need an oven to melt ore. This oven can be at 2-3 locations in EL. To run the oven, you need a guy with the skill "firemaking". He knows how to run the oven and keep the heat at the needed temperature. While he is operating the oven, you can add your ore into it and, after some minutes, you can put the liquid metal into moulds. This will increase teamwork, you need two players to melt ore.

 

Same with making metal weapons, one guy operates the oven, 2nd one operates a water driven hammer and the 3rd one can make the blade.

 

Just an idea.

 

Piper

[xavier1]

I think that it is already too difficult for people to raise Manu level’s high enough to make anything worth selling for profit. I spend allot of money on leather and thread making countless numbers of gloves because it is the only real way to level Manu. I could make iron swords and other lower level weapons and armor but no one will buy things like that. I think that if you implement this system there should be a VERY significant benefit for people that already spend far too much money leveling.

[Lyanna]

I think the current problem with the system of levelling is that it rewards the number of actions (make one thing successfully, get XX exp). Since this doesn't really work with the new manufacturing system, it might be best to make exp gain on a time-based system. You gain XX exp per minute you spend 'doing' manufacturing. Since the higher items will require more time anyway, it scales it up appropriately. And it's more realistic, too... you learn as you do. The more time you spend doing, the more experienced you get at it, whether failing or succeeding. Perhaps it might also be based on the level of difficulty of your ingredients (titanium gives you more exp per minute than iron does, iron gives more exp than leather does, etc.)

 

-Lyn-

[ssjgohan]

so the longer it takes the more exp you get? then you could like for manuing spend 1 hour making 1 sword and get loads of exp, or what?

[Lyanna]

Yes, that's the point. You don't need to make massive amounts of items, because all you need to do is just to make ONE, and get the same amount of exp. (Well, it would vary a little, based on materials used, and stuff like that, but you get the idea). This cuts down on the mass-manufacturing, and if the system's complicated enough (or with enough randomization factors thrown in), it's going to be VERY difficult (not to mention useless) to macro.

 

-Lyn-

 

EDIT: Remember that if you overdo the timing, the whole thing might blow up/melt/fail. You can only spend so much time working on one item. Maybe there would be a time limit where after that, your exp gain cuts off. It can be tweaked.

Edited November 16, 2004 by Lyanna

[Guest Fanatyk]

I like some of the ideas like anvils and few other things. But i think the game would be a bit too complicated then. I would like few of the ideas to get in the game, but making all of them its... not suc ha good idea IMO.

 

I agree with LYanna, to make it very hard and instead of making 20, making 1 item worth much more gold and exp. That seems very nice and interesting

[ssjgohan]

its just cuz what you said seemed like if i would keep 1 bar at the right temurature the whole time i could keep gaining exp for just keeping it hot that was kind of interesting

but i guess the time limit is better

[Derin]

Quote (Roja)

Our purposes are not to only make it take longer, but as i've said before, to make the game more fun to play.

 

If it is the fun-factor you are after, you have to make the reward big enough to see the fun in spending 10 or so minutes to make one item.

 

Also the connection to RL, here is what i think:

This is a game, it is not RL, a fantasy settings cannot be like RL. Compare things like monsters, dying, magic etc.

So, unless this is an educational game, I suggest we keep the connection to RL at a distance.

[ssjgohan]

i guess both you and roja have a point now i don't know who's side to choose

 

but since i'll prolly get an EL T-shirt from my dad soon and roja has to send it to me i guess i'm picking her side

[Lyanna]

About the connection to RL - it would depend on what skill is involved. Metal-working and potions, for example, already have precedents in real life, so it makes the most sense to make it intuitive for players. However, things like crafting, magic, summoning and alch can go crazy. (Once we come up with appropriately wild ideas, of course...)

 

-Lyn-

[pavel]

I usually don't have much time to play, and when I do have time, I also have many interruptions. The current system is very quite good since I can achieve something even in the short time I can spend playing. I think making manufacturing harder by requiring more ingredients/equipment is fine, but requiring a lot of time to do something isn't a good option. Also, rising eq prices will make game less newbie friendly.

 

Also, concering real life... There is already one great very realistic game - it's called The Real Life. I think EL should be a bit unrealistic.

 

I don't remember if someone already proposed this, but I would like to be able to make "customized" weapons/armors - like diamond encrusted sword or emerald embedded in a shield. This would give a nice look to items and probably add some abilities.

[Roja]

Quote (Roja)

Our purposes are not to only make it take longer, but as i've said before, to make the game more fun to play.

 

If it is the fun-factor you are after, you have to make the reward big enough to see the fun in spending 10 or so minutes to make one item.

You misunderstand...the "Fun Factor" must come in DOING, not only in the reward..the reward is just a bonus. If you do something you love irl, you do it because you love DOING it, of course you love getting the end result too, but it kinda sucks to get that result if you dont' like/love the process.

Now sure I don't think we'll be able ot make it THAT fun, but i was just tryng to make my point

[Roja]

Also, concering real life... There is already one great very realistic game - it's called The Real Life. I think EL should be a bit unrealistic.

Tell me, how many people actually get to forge a sword or other weapons/armor in real life, today's time?

[Tigger]

Not sure this will make it more fun... it's hard now and takes forever to level manu.

Are we going to get a lot more exp for making stuff if you are going to make it this hard and long to make something?

[pavel]

Also, concering real life... There is already one great very realistic game - it's called The Real Life. I think EL should be a bit unrealistic.

Tell me, how many people actually get to forge a sword or other weapons/armor in real life, today's time?

That wasn't my point. Being realistic does not nesessary mean being a good game. There is no point to do something just because it is realistic. Would you remove all magic and monsters, do not allow people to kill wolves and bears barehanded etc.. just because it's unrealistic?

 

Anyway my most important point and request was: please don't make this game useless to people like me. There are many ways to improve manu system.

[Tigger]

Also, concering real life... There is already one great very realistic game - it's called The Real Life. I think EL should be a bit unrealistic.

Tell me, how many people actually get to forge a sword or other weapons/armor in real life, today's time?

I do i do... i make chain maile in real life and use to make swords and plate armor parts for ren faires and SCA.... and i do make more than one thing at a time... i find it more fun to work on 3-5 same parts at the same time as i feel i got more done and find it more rewarding... i think it is good to make it take more steps and time to make stuff , but not make it too hard for people to understand here.

[sirdan]

*only looked at first post* good idea

Edited November 16, 2004 by sirdan

[ogerawa]

Great idea. Working it on our own as for the failing rates is a great thing, rather than making them random straight from codes. Although the random thingy still needed when we are actually making stuff.

 

Oo and as for monsters drop, instead of them dropping the 'brand new' weapons and armors, make them drop a second hand stuff. Or even worse make it like it looks bad and need Tankel to repair them before it can be used or sell to Trik. Well, the monsters use them, and monsters are just eerrrmm.... rough, they can't use the stuff very eerrmm... nicely ^^

 

As for exp, maybe instead of a real exp numbers, make them like you need to make 50 of current level stuff. So if you can make iron sword, then you need to make 50 iron swords in order to move on to next level. Note: the number of items in here is just an example.

 

And as the level goes higher, when we make a lower item stuff, the random thingy should be made broader, i mean so it'll be easier to make them. For example, if it's like only given 2 secs to take out the blade out of the forge or whatever. At higher level (when u make lower level stuff), you are given like 5 secs before it breaks, since basically the character gets better in making them.

 

If it's possible, make the rare books be a quest items rather than monster drop. Basically it'll take more time to get them. Yeah, but the downside is that it'll need a lot of quests xD. Or create a mage as a monster type so they can drop the books :lol:

[MisanthropicToo]

Well since a goal is to make this game more interesting and to draw attention away from leveling up and being an uber-player run game, I think that sitting in a room and making a sword for 15 minutes isn't so bad. And isn't another goal to draw money away from people with too much of it?

Edited November 17, 2004 by MisanthropicToo