Musings About The Future Of El

[Lyanna]

First, read this article: Gamebunny Interview (June 2004)

and this thread: Making Money from the Game

 

Over the last few days, I've been wondering... what will EL turn out to be like in a few years time? What sort of game will it be? What will be its strengths? What will be its weaknesses? What sort of players will it attract, and how many of them?

 

Right now, we have Roja working on more artwork for the game, Moonshadow working on the maps of Tarsengaard and the 2nd continent, Cicero and Learner (plus a whole host of programmers) developing the client, Ent working on the server and writing quests, and various other people helping out. There are also T-shirts being printed and the possibility of hats. There are half a dozen fan sites, and a bunch of modified clients, plus various people playing with bots. One thing that EL doesn't seem to lack is programmers.

 

EL.net is practically dead, role-playing is nearly so, storylines likewise. There are a few map-makers, VERY few sound people, and even lesser writers and webmasters. Most of the guilds in the game are based on friendships and levelling up together. In a sense, they're more like what I call 'clans' than actual 'guilds' - which are organisations united by a common purpose and function in the game. (ie. they perform a service, like Runners Guild, Healers Guild, etc.) Does this give any indication of the community we have?

 

Most of the community is in the 13-30 age bracket. The question which intrigues me is...which way will it swing? Will it go towards the younger generation, or more towards the older generations? The question is an important one, I think, for several reasons. The younger generations are largely interested in playing the game for gameplay reasons - working out ways to level up faster, becoming the most powerful ..., and generally would like more fun and exciting things to do - more WIDTH to the game. So, they would largely be interested in the game developing more skills, more monsters, more things to do. Whereas the older generation (and here I'm assuming age = maturity) would be interested in the community aspects of the game more - the quests/stories, economic control, and political power structures. So older players would prefer the developing of more quests, more maps, more guilds and organisations... more ways to get involved in the game, beyond just relentless training - more DEPTH to the game.

 

How will the game develop? Because it is free, it is natural that a lot of the younger generation would be attracted to it. Will this affect which modifications the developers will implement first? Or, conversely, will the modifications that the developers implement serve to shift the player demographics in the direction they want? I know a game (Threshold) that has maintained a steadily-growing, heavily role-playing community for close to 10 years now because of the strict rules it enforces - in fact, they won't even let you join unless you've read through all the help files, submitted a proposal for the character you want to role-play, and the admins have looked it over. Everything in that game rewards good role-playing and punishes bad role-playing, instead of player levels. While I'm not suggesting that EL follow that system, I'm using it as an example of how the developers can control the game so as to slowly 'develop' the player community, so to speak.

 

In three years' time, how many of the people here will still be in EL? What would make them stay? The universal answer seems to be "the community". But does that mean that the community will stay the same for 3 years? If and when it starts to grow, what sort of players will come in, and how will they affect the community? What would serve to keep the oldbies from leaving? Is it because of the levelling up grind? In that, most of EL is focused on getting levels up to do more things, and chatting with friends. With the server crashes, the work on levels is gone, and chatting can be done over IM's, so there was no reason to stay. What could such a reason be? There could either be a massive overhaul of the system, to make it less based on levelling up (but so far as I know, the only game system that seems to be able to be independent of levels is Guild Wars), or getting players more involved. Maybe developing something related to the game, like what Tumaros is doing. If the players were more involved in the game-world, they would be less likely to quit. I know I do not quit because of the Storylines.

 

What seems to be missing is world-changing events that all players can take part in, and that would have rewards. A good example of this is Neopets, ridiculous as it might sound. Every development and add-on in the game is tied to a world-wide event, like a war in which players can take part. The players that distinguish themselves have a record of achievements to look back to, and successfully completing the event would result in new items/maps for all, so there is motivation. There needs to be a higher cause that players can work for. In FFXI, for example, players fight for themselves, but they are also claiming territory for their kingdom, so each player's contribution is important and valued. In EL, there doesn't seem to be a way to contribute to the game, beyond posting in the Suggestions Forum. Only the players with the right skills can serve in the Mapmaking/Programming/Visual Art/Music/Storylines forums. Events have been organised, but they're largely uncoordinated and do not have significant consequences in the game - like manhunts, contests, etc. There is no benefit besides some already-existing items and bragging rights.

 

So which way will EL develop? I honestly don't know. It depends on the community as a whole - whether they are willing to contribute to making this game great, or just wanting to get all the fun out of it that they can before moving on to another game. It depends on the developers - what sort of things they want to implement and what effects that would have on the players. Perhaps there will be two separate developmental paths, one for F2P which will focus on Width, and the other for P2P which focuses on Depth.

 

Who knows? Can anyone visualise the future with me and tell us what they think?

 

-Lyn-

[Platyna]

Duh, community exists only between "oldbies" and in few guilds. Look around the forums. Look in game

how everyone are nice to each other. Few "newcomers" became a pest in this game and are poisoning

the community all the time. Moderators are fighting with each other on public forums or channels...

If you ever will get allowed to moderators forum I advice you read topic "role playing rules"...

 

About guilds: In medieval times guild was organization which was group of people who defended their

own busines and it had no emotional meaning and wasn't based on friendship. On EL few guilds looks

like sects and sometimes I am scared when reading what particular members are talking about...

Also that guild egoism...duh...some guilds forbidds their members to do particular things or enforce

doing something, for example you can't give anything outside guild for free...

 

About contibuting to community, no idea how you are talented but I am not a C programmer, I am not

map maker, duh, me being graphic artist? Mwahaha good one! I can sing, even won some prizes so

planned to record something for EL but in this dirty hole where I am living there is not way to get

needed equipment. I am a sysadmin, people say I am good one, offered to be EL sysadmin, take care

about backups etc. for free, got refused. So what can I contribute? Seems nothing. :-P

 

About EL.net...I will host it now. Tropicano is working to remake site, well we hope to made it interesting.

I think any suggestions will be appreciated, since it is EL community site it would be nice when people

would want to participate.

 

About other games...in my life I really liked two games: Shadowlands and Eternal Lands. Shadowlands

was awesome RPG game for Amiga. Oh I loved this one. ;-D Ultima...well I like it but it not drags me

into it like Shadowlands and EL.

 

And finally...what will be the future? You have posted article it seems answer your question till Entropy

will not change his mind.

IMO we need to recreate community and role playing like stop NPC from calling people "little pieces of

shit" if we manage it (I mean Community Helpers and community itself) then I see bright future for this

game. Since I am evil person and I like "bitching" alot and I am not easy to be interested and this is one

of two games (and first of it is REALLY old) which I really like...it means something I am right? :-P

 

PS: Is it really Entropy?! Where is 31337 sp33ch and improper english? Where is Entism? ;-D

 

Regards.

[shasso]

 

y00 think too much, rather go play lol

 

 

i see it coming allready... *hides*

[simma]

plat, there IS a decent community in EL, maybe you don't see it because a lot of people in it don't like you (sorry, but there is a fair few anti plats out there....)

 

and no, it's not just a few oldbies, and friends in same guild. a lot of people out there are "almost-friends", as in, they know of each other, have mutual respect, say hello etc, but don't chill out and talk all the time, probably because they like to go and level, lol.

 

small eg. i wud consider Guizmo one of my gd friends in el, he's never been in any of my guilds, and ive neva spent a lot of time with him, but we just get on really easily, and it's kool.

 

This type of thing is very common, and this is our community

 

 

i don't think el will change much, the levels will grow, the new toys will come, and we will all still be wondering whether there is a fork or not...

 

players tht will join? i think we will always have a broad variety of ages, el is just so easy to get into. younger generation love to be at the top and UBER 1337. and the older generations, they are more relaxed with levels, and can have a laugh, there are a fair few smart opinionated people in el, and these "more mature" generations, will fit into tht type of group

 

el is a game for the whole family, even my 6yr old cousin likes to play, he's a button basher by nature, lol. but he calms down on here and likes to kill the bunnies on prima

 

as more developements come, more players WILL be attracted to el, more wepaons will interest fighters, these enriched essences are adding a whole new level to the game, the next step of 1337ness summoners finally have some dudey things to do and are gonna be menacing if they get plenty of ele's

 

you can't be totally sure of the future of el, but because it's not a totally specific game (ie conquer really is aimed at people who like fighting), we have an open game, available to anyone who wants to spend their free time here and shuning, no1 but evil nasty people, like killerlamb... lol

 

my 2 pennies (i am english see! ) ps. yes i kno these are two BIG pennies, lol

[Roja]

one thing that hinders the growth of the game is ent & me having fulltime jobs..i'm lucky if i can spend 2hrs/day working on the game now. So progress is, and will be, slow.

[Grum]

Ok, that's it, I'm gonna employ you full time!

 

*looks at his empty wallet*

 

Hmm...yeah...maybe next year...or the year after that...if my wife will let me...

[Cicero]

Yeah, I've been kinda busy with school + job + occasional eating & sleeping.

 

I really need to get off my butt and write some more EL code.

[Platyna]

Simma that few people dislike me doesn't means community exists or not, so think before posting

what is the community. It is 300 people here not 1.

 

Regards.

[simma]

you obviously misread what i wrote, i meant it as, you may not have the opportunity to see our community more clearly, because a few key people in it, don't actually like you.

 

try living in a neighbourhood where ure hated, your not exactly gonna see a lot of the local community then same goes here.

 

and it is more than 300 people... 300 active at once most of the time, but thousands of players.... (yes i kno you kno tht, so no bloody need to try and correct mee)

 

and i did think. i didn't say thet you are anything to do with whether the community exists or not (big ego u have there....), i sed you may not notice it...

 

BIG DIFFERENCE

 

 

to quote you plat "so think before posting"

 

 

~Simma~

[Platyna]

Big ego? WHAT? I am playing this game since a year so I know how community was looking like during

this time. And that, few sick people, decided to troll about me on forums not changes anything. :-P

 

Regards.

[simma]

how wud you know though? if you were being kept out of the loop, you wudn't know if anything changed

 

hehe

 

~Simma~

[Dabilahr0]

Hey, I just wanted to add my two cents.

 

I made a (much shorter) topic focusing on the development of the game after the beta ends and it truly is deemed a MMorpg. I have a pretty good feel of the game and community by only 2 or so months of playing nad here is what I have come to realize.

 

1) This game was created with small goals and therfore greater aspirations were not thought possible until just recently. By recently I mean when the game was updated from the choppier icons and items of old, and when more people came to assist with development.

 

2) From the beginning there have been a handful of players that have erected the EL society. From what I have seen these people are generally well-known to anyone that reads the forums or is on one of the more popular chat channels.

 

3) Everyone and everything from the creation of the game has a history. Guilds and people and places and personal quarrels all have some signifacance to the players previously mentioned. A mass of people would make this game become impersonal and would make these things and players and everything else with history obsolete except to the people who had started EL and those who have had it explained to them.

 

4) Guilds are the same as EL only smaller. They harbor people who have been with it since the beginning, all newcomers arn't as "important" to the guild as those who gave it its original character and personality.

 

5) Large amounts of players would need an acommodation of spawns and storage facilities etc. Thus, making the game more impersonal.

 

All this is just mindless observation influenced by teenage dramatics. It is most likely a heaping load of crap and for anyone who took the time to read it I apologize. This is just my perspective, tainted as it may be.

 

Don't mind me, I'm just Dabilahro.

 

~S

[Tumaros]

Looks like I'm gonna have to do more head boppin

 

I'm just gonna leave it all up to fate...nothing is certain in these times.

 

 

And I'm not just saying that for dramatic effect Things can change faster than you think...

[Lyanna]

Simma has a point about it being an open game, as opposed to a fighting game like Conquer, so there will always be a broad range of people playing. And Dabilahr0, I agree with every single one of your points. Tumaros! You're the only one old enough and that has the right skills (as far as I know) to write up the full history of EL. Will you do it?

 

But anyway, there are some thorny issues raised. Will the numbers of players affect the EL community soon? I mean, just think about it - some of the oldbies are beginning to see the problems, and we've barely hit 300 players online at the same time. What if, in three years' time, the server will be fully utilised with 1000 players logged in?

 

What happens to the community? It becomes too impersonal, and the flavour of EL is lost in the sea of the masses. And the admins will have a harder time keeping watch, so there would be more instances of abuse. It may end up like Runescape. What about the game mechanics? There will be hundreds of people fighting over the resources, especially spawns - even with new maps. There is simply not enough space. Eventually, people will be forced to resort to PvP and summon training to level up their combat skills. What I'm basically saying (and please don't take offence at this) is that the game's current system IS designed for a small community, not a large one. The only way to resolve this is to separate servers, of course, but that will further dilute the 'core' community.

 

If more and more people come in, players will retreat into guilds to form smaller communities. Guilds would increase over time, and eventually form branches that split into smaller guilds (case in point: GDC and FIRE). The EL world as we know it no longer becomes a unified community - it'll be a bunch of scattered guilds and groups that hardly know each others' members, but who are all playing the same game. In fact, isn't that what is happening now? I think this has been the trend for most MMORPGs, and I was wondering if EL could be the first to break out of it.

 

I posted this topic to generally provoke some thinking among the developers about which way they want to game to develop - not just in terms of what things to implement and game mechanics, but also what the distinctive 'flavour' of EL is that they want to present to the world.

 

Ent said he was aiming for a quest/story-based game. While that is good, and I completely support him in that, we also have to look at the potential audience. Most of them are not interested in the quests at all. In fact, it was only after he made quests necessary for the winery to sell wine and the blacksmith repair weapons that people started asking about how to solve them. Is this a good thing? Making quests optional and unrewarded means that more than 3/4ths will not do them, but on the other hand, does not limit the player's freedom to do whatever they want. Making quests required and essential would limit people's actions a little, but would also serve to 'breed' a better community (of course, I'm defining 'better' from my own point of view). Not many players can stand to read through massive amounts of text, and those that do are generally the ones who are more patient and mature. Making quests integral to progress in the game would promote them and discourage people who are just interested in mindless action.

 

Of course, I am of the opinion that that is GOOD for the game, since it creates a stronger 'core' community of helpers and contributors, and less fly-by-night players, but I'm a little biased. (I sound like a political scientist advising the government to practise eugenics here... but in a sense, that IS what I'm doing.)

 

Here's a question: WHY do we want more people to come into EL? Since there's always a free version, it's not like having more people will earn more money, unless P2P comes out and is proven to be successful. It's debatable whether having more people will improve the community. Is it the fame and popularity? But EL can never compete with the big-budget games like EverQuest, etc. and was not meant to. So why?

 

The next questions are:

What sort of players do we WANT in the game?

Should we control what sort of players that are coming into the game, and how can we do that?

 

(Yes, this post is pretty polemic - I meant it to be provocative)

-Lyn-

 

P.S. EDIT: I find that a lot of players ask for things to be implemented in the game, but make no effort to help out. Why is this so?

[Dabilahr0]

Lyanna,

 

To answer your question, money. Money is the reason (at least this is how it has struck me) Entropy would like to see more players in the game after all the bugs have been worked out and the game is, for lack of a better word(s) o_O?, self-sufficient. In order to make all available upgrades this game requires funding that a small group cannot supply. Even with p2p there would still be a smaller profit with JUST the amount of players now as opposed to the thousands of players that could be playing.

 

Right now I feel that everyone shares my view on the game, or at least everyone who has come to love it as much as I have. This game is made for me. I have a voice that is listened to and it has an influence in the game in one aspect or another. Every update is the creation of this quarky democracy, only with Entropy making the final decision.

 

Adding masses to this tight community and pressure-free gaming experience would rape it of its personality. That decision alone would define his character in my book. I'm sure there is an alternative to the option I just can't seem to come up with it.

 

Although I know you and alot of other people are concerned about it, myself included, I don't think that should stop you from enjoying the game while it is here and just how you like it. Exscuse me for being melodramatic.

 

This might be the most interesting post I have ever stumbled upon.

 

Looking forward to reading more thoughts,

 

~S

[Placid]

Firstly i think well done to Lyanna for writing so well. It was an interesting read.

 

 

For me, I can honestly say i dont know what the 'oldbie' community was like. I've been playing this game for about 8 months, and i have enjoyed every part of it. I suppose im similar to teh banned 0n3na, im not a C programmer, so i cant contribute to the Client/Serverside. I know a fair bit about Linux, but im not able to be an admin. Therefore i decided to contribute to the game by offering my assistance to the newcomers. Helping them out, and offering information and guidence to the game and the community as a whole.

 

Secondly, i agree that there needs to be more player involvement in the game. Players need to see 'runtime'/'realtime' results of their actions, like fighting in wars, or something similar. But at the same time i disagree with the fact that the more mature players want to see more. I think if the 'oldbies' are to stay, they need to be distanced from the newcomers, allowing them to be 'in a league of their own'. Offering them ways to contribute to the game if they cant program, make art or sound.

 

I think that the future for EL is very bright, and i myself, do not intend to leave this game just yet. There is still more for me to do within the game. But i think that one thing is clear:

 

There needs to be more control on the game, players need to have respect for Mods/Admin's. Player's need to know what they can say/do and what they cant.

The game needs to have more in the way of 'rules' and/or regulations.

 

 

But then again, this is only my opinion.

[Edit Typo]

[Lyanna]

Hmm...I agree with you, Placid, that it would be nice to let the oldbies have some special 'league of their own'. (I'm not an oldbie myself, so I'm not sure though). And yes, I am DEFINITELY supporting anything that allows more players to contribute to the game. Whenever I look through the Development Forums, I always see the cry for more people to help out (in a positive way, that is). I don't think we need more rules, exactly, but rather that the rules be more clearly-defined and strictly-enforced.

 

Do you think it would help if there was a thread opened in the General Forum that stated the requirements for helping out in the various departments, maybe posting up some links to training sites, and then asking for volunteers? More people would see it that way, and maybe we could get more people involved, or help them come up with their own EL-related projects.

 

On the subject of worldwide events... I was discussing it with teh banned 0n3na the other day, asking her if it was possible to somehow get the majority of the guilds to host a combined event together. I'm thinking along the lines of maybe like a huge Fair, or a story-scripted war. The thing is, I doubt many of the guilds would get involved, especially if there were no material rewards, and the guild leaders cannot agree with one another. It really needs to be a top-down thing, but Ent and Roja are the only non-partisan admins, and they don't have time.

 

Any thoughts? Would this work? Will we be able to create a player-based storyline, despite the numerous difficulties involved?

 

-Lyn-

[Placid]

I agree, rules more clearly defined.

 

Secondly, its a good idea to add a thread listing what needs to be down and how to get invloved. Maybe it would be better to add it to the website, with a list of what help is needed, and who to get in touch with if you think you can help.

 

 

I love the idea of wars, fair's or anything communal. However, the current scope of the system would not allow this? would it? (correct me if im wrong).

I personally dont see too much trouble in the way of guilds getting together and holding events, most guilds have alliances with others, and if those guilds were able to volunteer time and things to get invloved with, it would definately bennefit the community. How about a whole new map dedicated to worldwide events? (that maybe a bit far-fetched, but u get the idea).

 

But as you said, these sort of events heavily rely on admins that can control the game (i.e. Ent, Roja etc), but i think that these suggestions are great however.

[duran]

the last half year or so i have spent my time reading the programming forum. and some of the stuff i see there is very interesting for the future of the game. there is code being worked on to support dynamic changes to maps. this may well lead to special quest maps so that a person or a group of persons travel into a map of some sort that is partialy generated at gametime and will not exist when the quest is over. it may allso be used to change the existing maps while the game plays. basicly stuff is happening but as roja said, they dont have mutch time...

 

as for community, we cant enforce one. what can be done is to put the right kinds of tools and stuff into the game to help community growth direction and so on. there will allways be people that play for power and infamy, just like there are people that spend ages building up networks of zombie computers to ddos servers they dont like or that offend them or just to show that they can do so. its like when schoolyard kid compare father, penis length or whatever, basicly its just one big pissing contest to them. this is nothing new, i have seen so many do silly stuff like this on irc for ages just to become the dictator of as many channels as they can.

 

allso, i think that we may see a new wave in social interaction in the game in some time. on the programming forum there is talk of a new modeling system. this system may well allow for more animations to be put into the models and allso blending of diffrent animations happening at the same time (so you may well see someone attack and react to pain at the same time, strange image i know but it can happen). this may well lead to more social animations like blowing kisses, waveing and other similar animation. again this is only a tool for the community to use or abuse, and im sure both will happen.

 

personaly i have seen this game grow form just some people sitting on a dock and talk to a fully grown world where people fight monsters (or eachother), harvest and make stuff, cast spells and explore.

 

allso you dont need to code or make maps to help the game. if you can make audio effects like say metal, wood and leather impacting eachother then it would help the game. if you can make models it would help the game. basicly there are a ton of small stuff that needs to be done. if you think you can help, post some sample of what you can do in the right forum

 

well, im going to harvest some stuff. see you people in the game