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robindell

Completing the crafting and manu tutorials

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The introduction of the achivements system has brought lots of new fun into the game. However on the PK server we have a problem in that the crafting and maunfacturing tutorials are almost, if not definitely, impossible due to the shortage of binding stones that are at present in the game. The find rate for bindings is pretty low, on main no big deal as they can be bought in the shop and thus ensuring a steady supply - on the PK server it was decided by players (practically all of whom no longer play) that to even out the PK-ing there would be few great swords and almost none of the higher armors and no bindings from the shop - no big deal, if you really want a great sword then it is possible to find one or two bindings in a year which is enough for the normal game.

 

In order to complete the two tutorials and gain the achivments you need (at a quick count) 5 bindings for the crafting and 23 for the manufacturing - that is flat out impossible here. The price is at present somewhere around 90K - if you can find anyone selling them at all, and there is no one who will sell 28 bindings, even for 2.5 million gc!! (If you even had it)

 

I spoke to radu about this and he said I should post here and see what everyone thinks, he suggested just as an idea, maybe a limited number of bindings for each player, just to get the market going again at a price which would enable us to try and finish these two tutorials and get the achivments. (And yes I realise that you can of course use the bindings in any way you want - great swords etc. etc.)

 

So what do you all think, should we reintroduce the sale of bindings from the shop? And if so under what conditions - if any?

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I'd hate to see them TOO available, but you are right, we do need more. I've only found two since the server started and one of those was a fail.

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Current rate of bindings is more that fine now, not worse that year ago (link). It is possible to do that quests on server for them who wants to show off, in fact bindings not problem here, harder to get levels, nexuses and saving stones.

 

So, in my opinion there no need to sell bindings from shop. Who wants to get nice armor - could get it now, some achievements should be really Achievements.

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Personally I don't see getting an achievement as justification for making bindings only available to a sub-set of player (those willing/able to pay for them). If we want more bindings on the PK server then I think the finding rate should be adjusted so it's fair to EVERYONE, not just a select few.

 

I would support a rate adjustment. I would not support making them available from the shop.

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I have seen 2-3 bindings, found 1 or 2 but lost more due to great swords breaks. Also have not had a great sword for a very long time as they are not affordable when you actually use them.

 

I as pker find binding stones to be not affordable and do not use them for PvP or PvE, draw your own conclusions.

 

The limited population is unable to sustain a market for binding stones without a reliable source.

So sales of unlimited bindings is required, i'm not playing recently but I will be back!

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HOw limited is this limit? A number per month, year, or forever? Per character, or per person?

 

I think an increase in find rate would be nice.

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I would prefer 2 per player, but I understand how it's very hard to prevent using alts to buy multiple sets of 2. Perhaps some minimum OA level (say 100) to take delivery which would prevent the use of low-level alts. I suspect any character with an OA under 100 isn't going to be doing any of the tutorials to the end anyway (won't have the levels needed to finish it).

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I feel that more than 2 would be preferable as the crafting tutorial takes 5 and as for the manu..... (but I am a long way from the manu atm, can't speak for anyone else though)- so why not 3 or 4? I could live with an OA mimimum level but to be honest 100 is far too high - why not make it 130! The high level players some of whom already have 20/25+ bindings hoarded don't need anymore. OA 50 for example would at least mean that every character had to be a real player - it wouldn't be possible just to log on a new char and buy the stones.

I mean either we have only the high level players able to buy (which I personally find very unfair - restricting it to just a select few), then 2 is too few, or all characters can buy in which case 2 would be acceptable - but restricting it to high level players AND a limit of only 2 rather defeats the purpose.

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And what if we reset? Would be better if it was sold to player with level 50 of a skill (besides harvesting).

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I had a higher level character here, but no longer. I've just recently started playing here actively again on my newb character, but the time will soon come where i need some good armor/weapon. when that happens, sure there IS good equipment available.. i see 1 orc slayer on a bot for 150k. Binding stone 90k?

I think a lot off people who come over here are disheartened when they see they'll be using augs for the first 6 months they play, OR will be forced to have an alt harvest constantly for gc while they try and train with the second window open. not everyone has a computer that runs smoothly while doing so. And that's just the first point as to why that style of play isn't quite attractive. It's a pay to play server, i feel like good items should be decently available here. Dropping the binding price through whatever means, be it temporary shop availability or some increased finding frequency, would be healthy for the server.

I don't know why anyone is against it tbh. They must have bindings/good stuff already :/

 

Edit: plus people that wanted to could use theirs for the manu tutorial achievements

Edited by Goot

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I could live with an OA mimimum level but to be honest 100 is far too high ... OA 50 for example would at least mean that every character had to be a real player.

My alt Kaldoon is used for contests and some harvesting of higher nexus items. His OA is 88 but he's clearly not a "real character" and should not be allowed to buy bindings from the shop. I'd wager that most harvesting alts or alts used for support skills (manu, crafting, potions, etc) have a higher OA than 50.

 

 

I think a lot off people who come over here are disheartened when they see they'll be using augs for the first 6 months they play, OR will be forced to have an alt harvest constantly for gc while they try and train with the second window open.

Hehe, I've been playing three years and have a high a/d and I still play in steal-chain and aug pants. You don't NEED high-level gear. Even as a PKer you don't need fancy toys unless it's an arrange battle where everyone dresses up.

 

And you already HAVE to have one or more alts to support a pure fighter. The only way to play as a single character is if you are an all-rounder or very focused (like a mage build: harvest, alch, magic).

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yeah i know you don't absolutely need the good stuff, but it definitely comes in handy, and most importantly in a GAME setting it is FUN. That's what many people who go to the pk server are looking for, that and free spawns heh

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Well I agree that I would like better armor/swords available and that newer people would love to get it faster, I did do the harv on an alt thing (lag like hell tho) but not everyone can do that as you mentioned. I still dont own a great sword purely because of no binding stones and Ive played on this server for a long time. :(( Also I did just reset my prospective ranger alt, so resets have to be considered.

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yeah i know you don't absolutely need the good stuff, but it definitely comes in handy, and most importantly in a GAME setting it is FUN.

Yes, but there's a big difference between the entitlement mindset of "I want it, and I want it NOW [stomps foot]" and the "I want it so I'm going to work for a few months to level the skills and collect the ingredients so I can make one".

 

It's that same different that has some people buy pre-leveled characters and others who are proud of the accomplishment of leveling their own character.

 

EL is about having fun. But for some people the fun is in the accomplishment of the journey, not just about an easy path to some goal.

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I have always taken pride in the fact that I level my own chars, here and main, but waiting 2,3, even 4 or 5 years for what you want to acomplish is hardly "wanting it now" For people who work irl its even more difficult.

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Yes, but there's a big difference between the entitlement mindset of "I want it, and I want it NOW [stomps foot]" and the "I want it so I'm going to work for a few months to level the skills and collect the ingredients so I can make one".

 

I feel that that seriously underestimates the difficulties in some areas caused by the lack of bindings, I have been playing for nearly 2 years now with 2 characters and have found a total of 4 bindings so I still can't finish the crafting tutorial.(In addition to being condescending)

 

I've been playing three years and have a high a/d and I still play in steal-chain and aug pants. You don't NEED high-level gear

I disagree, instances are an integral part of the game and there is no way a tank can finish the instance in steel-chain and aug pants with a tit long! You don't NEED ANYTHING in this game but some things are more desirable than others depending on the direction you take, I don't NEED 60 APs but some people have bought them, why? Because in order to be a high level ranger they are desirable

I don't know why anyone is against it tbh. They must have bindings/good stuff already :/

 

I completely agree, I cannot understand why anyone would be so against them being more available, if you don't want them then just don't buy them, just like rostos, vial molds, etc. It is quite obvious that the majority of players would like to see more bindings in the game by whatever method Entropy might approve. I have not as yet seen one valid argument against the reintroduction.

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I feel that that seriously underestimates the difficulties in some areas caused by the lack of bindings, I have been playing for nearly 2 years now with 2 characters and have found a total of 4 bindings so I still can't finish the crafting tutorial.(In addition to being condescending)

Maybe you doing something wrong? I found much more bindings in that two years. In last week, while you cry here on forums bring this topic, I found 4-5 bindings (yes, lately rates are very good - usually all stones much rare). I hear some people found a bit bindings too.

 

I disagree, instances are an integral part of the game and there is no way a tank can finish the instance in steel-chain and aug pants with a tit long! You don't NEED ANYTHING in this game but some things are more desirable than others depending on the direction you take, I don't NEED 60 APs but some people have bought them, why? Because in order to be a high level ranger they are desirable

You don't really need bindings for instances. Bronze set (or steel/tit parts with bronze plate) + col + halberd + tit serpent should work too.

 

I completely agree, I cannot understand why anyone would be so against them being more available, if you don't want them then just don't buy them, just like rostos, vial molds, etc. It is quite obvious that the majority of players would like to see more bindings in the game by whatever method Entropy might approve. I have not as yet seen one valid argument against the reintroduction.

Maybe some people like server like it is now? Rostos and vial molds can't be compared with bindings.

 

I am sure everybody could live with bindings available from shop, but server will lose another unique thing which differ it from main.

 

By the way, what advantages will be reached with binding sales? I mean for more that one player.

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"Maybe you doing something wrong? I found much more bindings in that two years. In last week, while you cry here on forums bring this topic, I found 4-5 bindings (yes, lately rates are very good - usually all stones much rare). I hear some people found a bit bindings too."

 

@ Sergey .. :) Maybe your just luckier than most, I have found plenty of enrichment stones...wanna swap ??? :P

Edited by Starlite

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I have never bought a character and accomplishments in game is the largest part of the fun. Another part is making friends, chatting in game etc. Another part is getting cool stuff.

The I WANT IT NOW attitude is not mine. The i want to work for a few months and gather the ingredients and get the nice stuff made for me IS my attitude (since i'm not going to train 3 characters at once, and neither of the ones i have are manuers). The problem with that is you can't just collect the ingredients when there are no bindings available except for ridiculous cost.

Why exactly do we NOT want people to be able to get nice equipment? Somebody explain to me why?

The impression i get is that the most powerful players have nice stuff if they want it, and they don't want other people to have nice stuff until they have reached the status of a "king" on the server.

Well what about the up and comers? They shouldn't have to a wait a year of playing (probably on their 2nd char, since most play on main first) or more just to get a suit of decent armor and nasty sword.. this is the PK server, and if newcomers could sooner get equipment they would sooner want to pk and bring more people over who want to have fun and pk each other all over the place.

I'm very curious as to the history of this server, when and why the npcs were removed, and when/why stones are so rare? send me a forum pm lest this topic be completely lost.

 

Edit: To Sergeys comment: "Maybe some people like server like it is now?" I say; Probably, it's the 3 people who have been playing the server steadily for the last 2+ years. But the fact that the number of players devoted to the server is so low, mayyybe it's time to take some other opinions suggestions seriously? Like those of newcomers, people who came and left, and People who don't play but would join if certain things changed. the PK server could be much more fun than the main server, there is tons of potential here, but with things as they are now, maybe it's time to start trying new things?

Edited by Goot

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I cannot understand why anyone would be so against them being more available...

Just to clarify, I have absolutely no problem with a higher availability of binding stones on the PK server. I just don't think they should be purchased from the shop. If we need more bindings then the rate of finding them should be adjusted so it benefits EVERYONE, not just those who can spend $$ in the shop.

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