Stronze Report post Posted January 8, 2011 cow/bull -> hide + scraper + salt = 2 leather deer fur + scraper + salt = 1 leather bear fur + scraper + salt = 4 leather ~~~ salt rocks + mortar & pastel = salt salt locations around edges of continent by ocean. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burn Report post Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) All of which would end up with leather that costs more (or wastes more time) than just buying it. Also pretty certain makeable leather has been brought up before. The only ones who'd think this is a good idea is brand new players who don't realize just how much they're going to need over time, and who will still end up buying it from NPC even if it was makeable. Edited January 8, 2011 by Burn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ignoble Report post Posted January 8, 2011 It has come up before. and then as now I think it is a good idea. Animal skin + dung (or possibly saltpetre, but this would make it too expensive) = x leather would require no new raw materials. As to the argument that people would end up still buying from the NPC, that's fine but give them the choice (exactly like making or buying thread). Also, let it be manu experience as opposed to crafting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalai Report post Posted January 8, 2011 Leather is a money sink along with thread, I don't see it becoming makeable anytime soon for this reason alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groomsh Report post Posted January 8, 2011 Sure, but would be nice to have a usage for tons of furs taking slots in storage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalai Report post Posted January 8, 2011 Sure, but would be nice to have a usage for tons of furs taking slots in storage No doubt. I'm caching all that leopard and tiger furs for a day, when they will become useful Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stronze Report post Posted January 9, 2011 the way a game economy should work is things such as leather and thread are low craftables new players can make to raise their crafting levels and sell on the market that players of higher skill who can afford to buy them easily but remain cost effect. i have always preferred games that have a pure player economy and nothing is sold by NPC's in unlimited amount. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burn Report post Posted January 9, 2011 i have always preferred games that have a pure player economy and nothing is sold by NPC's in unlimited amount. Not quite relevant to leather since quest NPC purchases can still be made, but this will never happen since there is the Antisocial perk. That would have to be removed first, meaning everyone who has it would have to return pickpoints... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizzy Report post Posted January 9, 2011 i have always preferred games that have a pure player economy and nothing is sold by NPC's in unlimited amount. Not quite relevant to leather since quest NPC purchases can still be made, but this will never happen since there is the Antisocial perk. That would have to be removed first, meaning everyone who has it would have to return pickpoints... Leather quest npc is usuable even to us anti social folks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burn Report post Posted January 9, 2011 Leather quest npc is usuable even to us anti social folks. Which is why I started with "Not quite relevant to leather since quest NPC purchases can still be made" I'm aware, spent a little time as Anti before I reset years ago. Was a response to his thinking nothing should be primarily NPC-bought, not just leather. THAT can't happen without removing the Anti perk first. But back on leather, using "just any fur" would be a disaster in the making, recipes being hard-and-fast items and all. As well, the only way any newb would be able to sell were if they were able to at 5gc or less, leather being 4.67gce from the NPC. I don't see that price point being possible. And with that price point not being possible, it won't get used as much as seems to be thought here. Even with people taking a gc hit, supply this way will never reach even 1% of the demand, considering leather helms being the primary leveling item for manu. Thread ends up mostly NPC-bought for the same reason. As is seen with the same helms. Those selling it on market even are primarily supplying antisocials by hauling it. Honestly, I see this as just too much work to implement (esp. considering even new types of items are being suggested that would be needed, keep in mind new images require a new client release) for little gain. Manu isn't that hard to get leveled up to the point of being able to "helm it" further, much simpler even than other skills like engineering and tailoring. I see much more necessity in adjusting those (and some other skills to a minor extent) than adding yet another low-level manu item. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ignoble Report post Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) I like the idea, especially if xp is for manu not crafting. You don't need new items (my suggestion skin + dung). Personally I would use it in exactly the same way I do thread now .... if I want to level then I buy from NPC, if it's just for 'normal' use I stock up by making myself. I like the parity it would bring to manu & crafting. I would also like to get rid of the thousands of skins I have taking up room in my sto. By your arguments Burn, we would never have had thread making implemented & I always see plenty of people making that. EL life is not just about power levelling. Edited January 9, 2011 by Ignoble Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burn Report post Posted January 9, 2011 Actually, difference. Crafting has less options at lower levels, and goes directly into stuff that requires bars and such, not something easy for a newer player to deal with. So thread gets made for that reason. Manu already has a bunch of low-level options, with inexpensive ingredients (or free). Very easy to level in comparison. Leather "mixing" wouldn't come close to thread mixing for that reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ateh Report post Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) actually the entry level items needed for manu use furs anyway, so thered be little to no difference using that fur for making leather which would actually help the manuer a little as thier levels progress , a bit like making ashes with engineering *edit* if anything it would also give new players something to do with the few thousand deer and fox furs they end up doing nothing with, they can generate some GC with it by selling to players and im not talking about walking to the WS fur NCP because thats bullshit New players need to be encouraged into the market not alienated by rip off bot pricing or NCP visits. thats hardly an MMO might as well play a single player Lastly I think the possibility of an item that gives new players a place in the economy is probably one of the things that should be focused on right now seeing as how EL has become a very elite economy of late, very offputting for new players to walk into a game and see prices close to half a million GC for a nice set of armor ( when the best way to make money for you is selling flowers at the NCP for 0.5gc ) Edited January 9, 2011 by Ateh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted January 10, 2011 Saltpeter could be used if the amount of furs added to the mix window was high enough to make the cost of the made leather somewhere between 4.5 and 10gc. Of course, it would not really be market item if it is over 5gc, but it would help get all of those fur out of storage. As for waste of time.....if you can make the saltpeter or sea salt and get xp from it and you can make the leather and get xp from that and you would be killing animals to raise your a/d xp anyways...it is no waste of time. Although the formula is still something that needs pinned down, his formula was no worse than any others. It would just require a few new game items. I am in favour of making leather. Leave the npc's and the quest as is, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites