When was the last update on the bot rules?

[nathanstenzel]

The link below is the rules that are posted by Roja for bots. I was wondering...when was the last update to the rules on that link? The timestamp that is listed in it is also listed below.

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13063

Mar 17 2005, 02:43 PM

 

I am having trouble understanding the rules for the bots and what is currently allowed. Examples of rights and wrongs would be nice.

[Aislinn]

There are several very helpful pinned topics in the bots section as well.

What exactly is it you are having trouble understanding?

[nathanstenzel]

Heh. I skimmed through the bots section back to 2006.

I was thinking it would be nice to have additional details on what is/isn't muling or multi, what bot definition variations there were and such.

Just trying to get a more definite understanding of things before I go and buy a bot.

It would suck having it locked.

I don't know. Maybe I should have looked in the bans section instead. It might be more useful than the bots section.

Not sure if there are any restrictions on the prices or not. I think I heard of restrictions on bot prices a year or so ago.

 

I will cross my fingers and hope someone can answer the original question for me. Going by old or incomplete info would be bad.

Edited August 5, 2009 by nathanstenzel

[Aislinn]

That list is updated as needed. Just because the original posting date doesn't change, doesn't mean it's not.

Maybe it would help if you stated what exactly it is you want to do with your bot.

 

You mentioned muling, maybe this thread will help:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...46217&st=20

[Learner]

Keep in mind that if you think there is a risk that it might be illegal .... it probably is! Best way to think about it is that game rules apply, and the bot rules cover the exceptions and additional rules.

 

5. Bots that serve their master in a way such as muling are illegal (see the rules for multiplaying).

 

On another note ... notice that there is a rule about Horses specifically, which is a newer feature.

[Usl]

Also of note, remember that bots must be declared to Radu, which has to approve specifically their function. So, if you declare your bot as a tradebot, then that's what it is allowed to do: trade with the general public (reasonable exceptions made for enemy guilds or banned hackers etc), at prices that are essentially stable (reasonable discounts can be applied to friends/allies etc.).

 

If instead of trading the bot serves as a private storage, it must be declared (and approved) as such.

If you set impossibly high prices for the public, and 0 for your friends, then it is actually serving as storage, not as tradebot.

If you use the two trips/week which are allowed for a bot to access its storage in a way that constitute muling, that's illegal.

Any change or addition of functionality to the bot, beyond what was initially declared, must be notified to Radu and approved explicitly.

 

In short: as long as the bot serves the function that was declared at approval, respects all EL rules AND the bot rules, you should be fine. Just remember that undeclared and unapproved functions are illegal by default.

[Entropy]

The rules are always up to date, and the thread is edited each time a modification is done. However, when an admin edits a thread, there is no note about it.

[nathanstenzel]

Ah. So the answer to my original question is basically "recently".

Buy prices could not be the same as sell prices for things, I imagine. There is supposed to be some sort of markup for anyone using the bot. Right?

Of course it would not be 0gc for anyone. Not even my guildmates. Not sure if it is allowable to have it be the same price as the sell price or what sort or difference there needs to be.

 

Both the buy and sell price for some DP CC things would be below the market value. That is at least my plan. Hoping to find out if that would be too chaotic for folk.

[Learner]

Ah. So the answer to my original question is basically "recently".

Buy prices could not be the same as sell prices for things, I imagine. There is supposed to be some sort of markup for anyone using the bot. Right?

Of course it would not be 0gc for anyone. Not even my guildmates. Not sure if it is allowable to have it be the same price as the sell price or what sort or difference there needs to be.

 

Both the buy and sell price for some DP CC things would be below the market value. That is at least my plan. Hoping to find out if that would be too chaotic for folk.

Bots approved as tradebots are the only ones permitted to buy/sell items. Generally there isn't a restriction requiring Market Pricing ... but there can be additional restrictions, such as when alts are buying from the bot etc.

 

I've always suggested to my bot owners not to use the alts with the bots, but if they do they pay the same price the rest as the rest of the public that anyone else can pay. But. it's always risky using you're alts on you're own tradebot.

 

Keep in mind that the bots are approved for specific functions, so trying to decide how you want to use a bot based on your interpretation of rules will get you into trouble always. They best way is to know exactly what you want the bot to do, and to get that approved, and not add anything else to it. The 'tradebot' example is a standard template of features etc that is implied in what it's allowed to do. Not a canned set of written rules.

 

Example, there is a new Bard bot that is being brought online where most of the rules can't be applied the same way because of it's function. Everything it can fo is being approved, or that feature won't be allowed. Because of that, we don't know yet if you can tip the Bard gc when making a request or not. Currently trading is disabled to prevent issues.

 

Define EXACTLY what the bot will do and how, then work with Entropy ... don't be asking general questions. You'll just get into trouble. Don't try to exploit possible methods of getting around the rules you see ... or you'll get into trouble.

[nathanstenzel]

<CLIP>

If you set impossibly high prices for the public, and 0 for your friends, then it is actually serving as storage, not as tradebot.

<CLIP>

0gc prices would invite a person to join the guild for the purpose of clearing out the bot and would be totally foolish and would not be a reasonable guild discount that someone mentioned. They said you can have a guild discount, but it must be within reason.

 

What I was wondering is....

Would sulfur sell/buy prices for strangers at 2/1.5 and 1.5/1.5 for guild be reasonable or unreasonable? Considered a storage bot or not?

Would it need to be more like strangers at 2/1.5 and 1.55/1.45 for guild?

 

If possible, I would like to have 1.5/1.5 for guild and 2/1.5 for strangers. Allies, I would probably put halfway inbetween if that is allowed by the bots programming (dogbreath code).

 

If this question can be answered, I think it will wrap up my confusion. Other topics were already covered before and everything else boils down to the questions above.

[Aislinn]

How are you planning on stocking your bot with sulfur?

And where would it be located?

I don't see why exact prices should matter so much, or why you are "confused" by somebody not giving you an exact tenth of a gc amount that is acceptable.

As several people in this thread have said, you need to tell us EXACTLY what you want to do and how and where before anybody can tell you something is "legal" or not.

 

It sounds to me like you want to use your bot as a form of a storage hyperspace bag (same low buy/sell prices set for friends). And if you are planning to place it say near the iron and bring sulfur to it to use as a convenient storage to mix at then mule the bars back to storage so you can trade them to your own storage...

That would not be a tradebot function even if you might sell some sulfur to some strangers occasionally too.

[nathanstenzel]

The location would be a DP CC subroom.

 

Sulfur is an example of what I wish to have it buy and sell. iron ore, silver ore, various quartz, food, essences also.

 

I recently had an alt of mine essentially work for the bot called Merchant in DP CC. Bought from it, mined and mixed, sold FE back to Merchant. My bot could potentially allow people to do this too. It might include the guild. I don't know if this would require a difference in price between the by/sell for the items or not. Not sure why it would make a difference in the answer to the question above.

 

The stocking of it would not be done at storage except for periods when it would not be doing any business with the guild. I will need to remember to have it trade those items back to me at storage so they go back to my storage like they were before the stocking occurred. This precaution would avoid any muling.

[Aislinn]

So it's a storage bot for you (if you are included in "people", and if you and your alt(s) both do this, you got illegal multi going on), and if you have other people do the same thing, you are basically supplying ingredients to have other people mix for you then you haul the finished products back to your storage.

Does this sound like your plan?

1. You fill your bot with ingredients (ores, flowers, sulfur, coal, etc) to mix various things (bars, essies, etc.).

2. You or "people" buy the ingredients, mix on site at the bot.

3. You or "people" sell back the finished product to bot.

4. You haul off the finished products back to storage on the bot twice a week and trade it back to your storage.

 

That really does not sound like a trade bot to me.

[nathanstenzel]

So it's a storage bot for you (if you are included in "people", and if you and your alt(s) both do this, you got illegal multi going on), and if you have other people do the same thing, you are basically supplying ingredients to have other people mix for you then you haul the finished products back to your storage.

Does this sound like your plan?

1. You fill your bot with ingredients (ores, flowers, sulfur, coal, etc) to mix various things (bars, essies, etc.).

2. You or "people" buy the ingredients, mix on site at the bot.

3. You or "people" sell back the finished product to bot.

4. You haul off the finished products back to storage on the bot twice a week and trade it back to your storage.

 

That really does not sound like a trade bot to me.

Is Merchant a trade bot? It buys and sells the same items. I used it before to level an alt of mine by mixing for it. Would the owner letting a guildmember do the same with it be illegal?

 

With #4, you suggest that I will use it as a mule. Heck no. I said that I would manually load the bot at its trade location.

[nathanstenzel]

How much of this mess would be cleared up if the bot never moved from its trade location?

[nathanstenzel]

Tell me if anything here is wrong, please.

 

1. A bot must never sell to anyone for less than it buys from anyone.

2. A bot can't haul anything from storage to a site to be used by that person on the site. This would be muling.

3. A bot can't haul anything from his site to storage to be transferred to that person. This would be muling.

4. A person can buy items, mix them and sell the product back to a bot that they don't own.

5. Having one character sell to a bot and another character buy that same sort of item from the bot could be considered using a 3rd party for illegal multi.

6. A person can buy items, mix them and sell the product back to a bot that their guildmaster owns (assuming no violations of the above).

7. A bot owner must be careful to avoid 4th, 5th, etc party variations of what is listed in #5 and to make reasonable attempts to prevent it.

8. A person can buy items, mix them and sell the product back to a bot that they own (assuming no violations of the above).

9. Only two trips to storage for the bot per week for the bot unless special permission is granted.

10. Only the bot owner may trade with a bot at storage and only if it does not qualify as muling.

11. The lists here apply as always.

12. People might get their bots and themselves locked without any notice if they are suspected of cheating with it.

13. All items from an alt that you are planning on turning into a bot should be donated to someone or stay on the bot until it drops it in a bag to poof into thin air.

 

I have played this game for a very long time and I have seen many people get in trouble because they did not understand 100% what was expected of them and didn't know that having an alt or a bot added so many sub-rules. This is why I am trying to get to be 100% sure. Also, I have my honor to uphold and I wish to maintain that honor the best I can. You guys can also be very confusing at times. Please understand that I simply want to know what to do. It is not so I can find loopholes. It is not because I want to cheat. It is because I want to follow the rules. I already plan on restricting myself more than other bot owners do in order to safeguard my $ investment that I plan on making in the bot-hood of one of my alts.

[Learner]

One reason we avoid giving cut & dried rules is that some bots are VERY different from others, and that when specific rules are given players try to find ways around the intent and then claim it's allowed by the rules.

 

Thats one reason that all bot features must be approved by Entroipy along with location.

[nathanstenzel]

One reason we avoid giving cut & dried rules is that some bots are VERY different from others, and that when specific rules are given players try to find ways around the intent and then claim it's allowed by the rules.

 

Thats one reason that all bot features must be approved by Entroipy along with location.

In other words, I might as well forward that into a forum pm to Radu along with step by step and moment by moment examples of the bots daily life. This may take an epic sized forum pm.

 

It would be nice if you mods could give a dry cut answer and then append "but other restrictions may apply and so you need to give detailed examples to Radu during registration" to the end. Oh well.

[Learner]

One reason we avoid giving cut & dried rules is that some bots are VERY different from others, and that when specific rules are given players try to find ways around the intent and then claim it's allowed by the rules.

 

Thats one reason that all bot features must be approved by Entroipy along with location.

In other words, I might as well forward that into a forum pm to Radu along with step by step and moment by moment examples of the bots daily life. This may take an epic sized forum pm.

 

It would be nice if you mods could give a dry cut answer and then append "but other restrictions may apply and so you need to give detailed examples to Radu during registration" to the end. Oh well.

It's not the mods making the rules, it's Ent. We just have to enforce fair & proper usage.