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TirunCollimdus

Is my character locked?

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Aislinn you used the labels given to make a personal attack against me. That is a fact. You passed judgment against me for something that has nothing to do with this ban. Yes I took the character but as I pointed out in the post you once again deleted I gained nothing by breaking the rule in question. Things are exactly the same as they would be if I had waited and given the character to LaNora before any of the stuff was traded between the characters. I find it just another bit of standard practice here in EL. Doesn't matter if someone benefited from what they did because you have a chance to settle a personal score. Did I get anything I could not have had by taking the storage out of the character? NO. Not one thing. Did I benefit from breaking the rule. No not at all. The fact of the matter is that I broke a rule and gained nothing by doing so.

 

My intent was not to gain any advantage over any other player illegally. That is what the rule is there for in the first place isn't it? To keep people from getting unfair advantage? How does it apply to me since I didn't get any advantage? As I have stated in both deleted posts 'I gained nothing I would not already have had legally from what I did.'. I fail to see the point of keeping characters locked when the end result of unlocking them would be exactly the same as if I had simply waited and given the character storage and all to LaNora before we traded any items. Radu's post here backs up the fact I should be getting attacked for taking the character. All that should be looked at here is if I gained an advantage by breaking the rule. I didn't. The storage was available to me in full as soon as LaNora took over the character just as mine is to her. We play the game together. There is no rule breaking involved.

 

You are using my unintentional breaking of rule 5 to punish me to serve your personal beliefs. That is what is going on here. You told me to name one positive effect on the game I have had and you would unlock the character. I did just that and you left the character locked. When I reply to defend myself against your baseless accusations you delete my posts. When I show that I did not gain anything I wouldn't have anyway by breaking the rule and no unfair advantage was had, you delete my post. Tell me how can I have provided you with what you requested to unlock the characters and still be here defending myself for taking the character in the first place instead of for taking the storage before LaNora could get here to give it to me if I wanted it anyway?

 

Tirun

Edited by TirunCollimdus

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Things are exactly the same as they would be if I had waited and given the character to LaNora before any of the stuff was traded between the characters. I find it just another bit of standard practice here in EL.

From my understanding of rules, even if you have waited, you would break rules.

Isn't it considered as middleman trading ?

Your char will get something from your "another char" by giving it to "third person" which will trade it back to you ...

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I am posting this to let you all know that there will be a slight modification in how the moderating team will be handling locks and bans. Entropy (Radu) and I together have worked out what we both believe to be a very good working model for consistent and effective moderation.

Locks and IP bans will now be an automatic 1 month. No negotiations, no running to Ent to get around big bad Aisy/Asgnny/Ghrae/Thyralax. Also the standard inventory wipe/stats reductions will be kept if appropriate for the crime. It will be on the locked/banned player's head to come back 1 month later to be reinstated. If they do something else normally lock worthy, another 1 month ban will be given. If they violate the ban or start complaining/whining during this period, their clock starts over. If a player has a lock on his main character and creates more trouble on an alt, the original locked main character will have an extended lock, in addition to a potential lock of the alt depending on the crime. (Obviously if you earned an IP ban, you better not have any alts) If this keeps repeating, they will get a more serious punishment, some examples could be a 2 month ban, or possibly on a case by case basis, a perma-ban. This will apply to ALL players, no exceptions.

This does not replace our kicks, warnings, mod pm's, boots, mutes, etc. Those as always will be on an as needed case-by-case basis.

Note: Illegal multiplay cases will not be allowed to have the illegal mules/alts unlocked and back ingame, ONLY the main character.

 

If you have any questions please feel free to forum pm me. It is much easier to concentrate on you via forum communication rather than ingame, where there are too many distractions and people pulling me in multiple directions.

Please note the highlighted part in bold red.

 

Now:

1. You did benefit by the trade. You got the "satisfaction" of knowing that even if Icy managed to get her character back (which you did seem to think was a possibility, at least according to your story), she would still come away empty handed. At least partial revenge for you. How do you see that you are not trying to gain advantage over Icy with these actions?

 

2. From the rule 5 section about legitimate multiple people on one IP: "Abusing same IP trading and/or lying will result in severe consequences." I would absolutely call this abuse of same IP trading.

 

3. Once you log onto a character and use it for any purpose, it is considered your alt from that point on and ANY trading between those characters by any means is illegal, along with the other forms of illegal multiplay laid out quite clearly in rule 5.

 

4. I have no personal grudge against you. I don't even know Icy other than a hello or two. People are saying I am mean because I have already told her she cannot get her character back. You can't have it both ways. I am for the rules and what is right. I am for the spirit of the rules. I am against breaking them, especially when it is blatantly and intentionally done, and when it is depending on loopholes.

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Things are exactly the same as they would be if I had waited and given the character to LaNora before any of the stuff was traded between the characters. I find it just another bit of standard practice here in EL.

From my understanding of rules, even if you have waited, you would break rules.

Isn't it considered as middleman trading ?

Your char will get something from your "another char" by giving it to "third person" which will trade it back to you ...

no....i/me/myself/etc IS lanora, i had a character NAMED lanora for a long time, which was sold long ago and name was changed, so "lanora" the character no longer exists.

he was talking about giving me (lanora) the icy/isiltari character and me giving him (tirun) stuff off said character. no third person involved.

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no....i/me/myself/etc IS lanora, i had a character NAMED lanora for a long time, which was sold long ago and name was changed, so "lanora" the character no longer exists.

he was talking about giving me (lanora) the icy/isiltari character and me giving him (tirun) stuff off said character. no third person involved.

 

If he would have NEVER logged in on it, then, technically, rule 5 wouldn't have been broken.

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i was just clarifying that there is no character named LaNora anymore, just before someone starts yelling about middleman trading.

 

:wub::P:pinch:

Edited by LaNora

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I am posting this to let you all know that there will be a slight modification in how the moderating team will be handling locks and bans. Entropy (Radu) and I together have worked out what we both believe to be a very good working model for consistent and effective moderation.

Locks and IP bans will now be an automatic 1 month. No negotiations, no running to Ent to get around big bad Aisy/Asgnny/Ghrae/Thyralax. Also the standard inventory wipe/stats reductions will be kept if appropriate for the crime. It will be on the locked/banned player's head to come back 1 month later to be reinstated. If they do something else normally lock worthy, another 1 month ban will be given. If they violate the ban or start complaining/whining during this period, their clock starts over. If a player has a lock on his main character and creates more trouble on an alt, the original locked main character will have an extended lock, in addition to a potential lock of the alt depending on the crime. (Obviously if you earned an IP ban, you better not have any alts) If this keeps repeating, they will get a more serious punishment, some examples could be a 2 month ban, or possibly on a case by case basis, a perma-ban. This will apply to ALL players, no exceptions.

This does not replace our kicks, warnings, mod pm's, boots, mutes, etc. Those as always will be on an as needed case-by-case basis.

Note: Illegal multiplay cases will not be allowed to have the illegal mules/alts unlocked and back ingame, ONLY the main character.

 

If you have any questions please feel free to forum pm me. It is much easier to concentrate on you via forum communication rather than ingame, where there are too many distractions and people pulling me in multiple directions.

Please note the highlighted part in bold red.

 

Now:

1. You did benefit by the trade. You got the "satisfaction" of knowing that even if Icy managed to get her character back (which you did seem to think was a possibility, at least according to your story), she would still come away empty handed. At least partial revenge for you. How do you see that you are not trying to gain advantage over Icy with these actions?

 

2. From the rule 5 section about legitimate multiple people on one IP: "Abusing same IP trading and/or lying will result in severe consequences." I would absolutely call this abuse of same IP trading.

 

3. Once you log onto a character and use it for any purpose, it is considered your alt from that point on and ANY trading between those characters by any means is illegal, along with the other forms of illegal multiplay laid out quite clearly in rule 5.

 

4. I have no personal grudge against you. I don't even know Icy other than a hello or two. People are saying I am mean because I have already told her she cannot get her character back. You can't have it both ways. I am for the rules and what is right. I am for the spirit of the rules. I am against breaking them, especially when it is blatantly and intentionally done, and when it is depending on loopholes.

 

1. I was trying to keep Icy from getting an advantage over me. Once I changed the character's password it was mine. My intent was to give it to LaNora which I did. I was trying to protect what had become my character to give to LaNora. The advantage over Icy was done perfectly legally because she let me know her password. Satisfaction is not an in game advantage which is what I understand the rules are meant to prevent. I was not aware my feelings were covered by the rules. I apologize for the oversight. I had never heard of anyone getting in trouble for how they felt about something.

 

2. It was not abuse of same IP trading because I could have just told LaNora to log onto the character as it was meant to be hers and have done exactly the same thing without breaking the rules just as Entropy posted. Yes it did break the rules because I did without getting LaNora to log on to her character but my life and LaNora's lives were drastically changing. I am sorry I let my personal troubles make me get impatient but as I and Radu pointed out the abuse would not have been one if I had just let LaNora log in instead of doing it myself.

 

3. If a character is your alt forever than no one can sell accounts or give them to other persons. This has not seemed to be the case in the past. I have seen lots of people sell and give away characters. I had not heard they could not then interact with those characters if someone else was running them. It isn't against the rules to give away characters or sell them to my knowledge. There isn't a rule section I have seen that states you cannot interact with a character that you have sold or given away if someone else can be proven to be playing them. I could have as easily told LaNora to log on to the character and change the password so that I would never have logged on to it. I would have done so if I had known giving the character to her was going to be problem. If there is a rule that says you cannot interact with characters run by other person when you have logged onto it in the past I am not aware of it. I apologize for not reading the rules well enough to understand this if there is such a rule. I thought as long as there were different persons running characters it was okay.

 

4. I did not break the rules to get any advantages. I could have inconvenienced LaNora by having her log on to the Icy character and made the trade then as Radu said without breaking the rules. LaNora was in the middle of trying to get ready to move down here to be with me. I am sorry I put her convenience and our real life futures ahead of the game rules. That was not my intent. I was just trying to take care of the game and my real life at the same time. It took longer to do the way I did it then it would have taken to do it without breaking the rules.

 

TirunCollimdus is my main character and Isiltari is LaNora's main character. I would appreciate it if we could have them unlocked after the month wait. I am very sorry I made this mess. I don't feel I violated the intent of the rules because I made it harder on myself to do what I did than it would have been if I had LaNora log onto the character and do it without breaking them. I was just trying to take care of LaNora and give her as much time as we could to get organized for her move. That is the only reason I did it the way that I did.

 

I apologize for letting my impatience keep me from doing what I did in a way that would not have broken the rules. I could as Radu has pointed out done the trade without breaking the rules. I didn't get any advantages that I could not have gotten by taking time from LaNora to have her help instead of letting her get ready for the move. If you feel that my putting what I felt were her needs before the game rules requires treating us as cheaters then please let the characters be locked for a month. We will not be causing any trouble for anyone going forward. We just want to be able to play EL together with our main characters.

 

I am hoping that the real life circumstances involved will mitigate my mistake and allow us to simply be put on probation since I didn't do anything that I could not have done legally in the first place. Taking the character from Icy should not in any way be considered here as I did that without breaking any rules. The character was meant for LaNora and she has been playing it as her main. We just want to play as a family like everyone else.

 

Tirun

Edited by TirunCollimdus

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1. Any possible "month" won't even start until all this stops. The longer you attempt to debate this, the longer the time will be, assuming that in one month I agree to unlock you in the first place. (See above post and conditions for 1 month unlock).

Note: any 1 month unlock is also subject to my satisfaction in knowing you understand what you did wrong and my conviction you understand the rules and the spirit of the rules and will not break them again.

Note 2: I am pretty sure here you do not. So the one month is iffy for you anyway.

 

2. Isiltari is considered your alt in this case. At the time the rules were broken blatantly, it was still your alt. So-called intentions about it being a gift have absolutely no bearing on this at all. LaNora will not be inconvenienced in any way since she did not earn this character, level this character, purchase this character, or in any way contribute to anything about it. Using her as the pity card will not work here.

 

3. Your interpretation of the rules and of the spirit of the rules and about the validity of breaking the spirit of them by finding any perceived loophole you can has been seriously flawed from the start of your EL career, not just in this case although this one is a doozy. I am certainly not going to enforce the rules for you or anyone else based on your thoughts on them or what you imagine you have noticed about other players and their punishments (or lack of). You are free to follow these rules and abide by the spirit of them, and you are free to not agree with them or their intent. However if you choose option 2, you will need to do that elsewhere.

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Abuse of power is the most abominable of all human failings. Having the ability to help others and instead hurting them is the lowest form of behavior.

Whether that power comes from authority granted or trust given makes no difference; betraying the trust implied by either relationship makes you nothing more than scum. When Lanora was trying to get things ready to move here to be with me I could have told her to get online to help me move the stuff in game. She would have done it because I told her too and had to deal with anyone who was asking why Icy's original owner was not running the character. She would also have taken time out of what little she had before the move to get ready.

 

If I had done this we would not be having this discussion right now as no rules would have been broken. The exact same results would have come to pass without a rule being broken of any kind. You are right Aislinn about this not being about intentions. I did give the character to Lanora and she is the only one who played it after the name and color change were put in place. This is about what actually happened. Nothing was gained that could not have been gained more easily by following the rules. I simply chose to place more importance on Lanora's feelings and convenience as I knew what I was doing did not gain me anything that I did not already have without breaking the rules. The trade in question would have been easier not harder if I had let Lanora help me.

 

How is it that you are locking up both characters when all I got from the trade in question was more of my own time used than was necessary since Lanora could have and would have helped me. The rule against multiplay is to prevent abuse and unfair advantage. Why are you locking my character for multiplay when I did not get this? I could have had Lanora help me do exactly the same thing you are banning me for and saved myself some time and trouble. Yet here you are punishing me and Lanora when in fact Lanora did have control of the character when you banned it? This is not about intentions. It is about realities. The fact is that I could have done this with Lanora's help and no rule would be broken. The fact is that doing it the way I did inconvenienced me more than asking Lanora would have done. The only thing I got out of breaking this rule was some peace of mind for Lanora and extra time on her hands to get ready for the move. This was not an in game benefit. The 'peace of mind' you claim I got as a benefit was not an in game benefit either.

 

You are going to bring real life into the game and say my state of mind in real life is what I am getting banned for Aislinn? The fact is that in game I got nothing out of this trade other than less time to actually play the game. No benefit and no intention of breaking any rule. I do apologize for breaking the rule. I cared more about Lanora than the game and if that makes me a bad guy then don't unban me. I have contributed to this game in a positive way both in game and monetarily as well. If you choose to keep both characters locked I won't bother to ask again for them to be unlocked. I want to play the game with Lanora because she has lots of friends here and so do I. There are some very nasty and abusive players in game who are in fact currently harassing us while I am locked. We can ignore them if their actions are not allowed to stand. I should be able to do something if I am unlocked but I can't do anything if I am not. Please let me know as soon as you can what your decision will be on this ban.

 

TirunCollimdus

 

PS As for my acceptance and appreciation of the rules I happen to be one up on a lot of your mods. The EVTR cave was used by a lot of them while the coal was still there. I talked to a mod who hadn't been there and figured out that the coal should not be there and helped bring it to Radu's attention. This won't help me make any friends but it shows that I put the game before my own personal gain. When I was GM of RICH we made a great deal of use of the cave until I found out it was not supposed to have the coal there. When I did find out I did something about it instead of continuing to use it to my and RICH's advantage.

Edited by TirunCollimdus

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I didn't read the whole thing, but did you just say: "I am sorry I illegally transferd the items and not followed rule 5, can I please be unbanned, I will not do this again?" ?

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Yes I did apologize for breaking rule number 5 and ask if I could be unbanned. It would be greatly appreciated. I will definitely never do it again for any reason.

 

TirunCollimdus

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The Icy/Isiltari character will not be unlocked. What you choose to do with that information is entirely up to you.

 

Also let me make something crystal clear:

If you choose to come back on your Tiruncollimdus character, in NO way will the mods put up with you harassing us to handle your garbage. You reap what you sow. If you will insist on wasting mod time with this, you can expect to find yourself relocked and a ban added faster than you can type #abuse.

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If unbanned I fully intend to deal with the problems myself. I would not have it any other way. Some people need to be educated and I am ready to start classes. I don't let lies and slander stand and I never quit. No one is going to get away with harassing me or mine especially when it is done unjustly. I don't need the mods to help me deal with attacks against me as I have proven more than once in the past. This just might be the last time I need to prove that attacking my character is not worth the results after all is said and done. I blew the RICH guild out on the forum. I blew Ateh and his entire bunch of buddies out on the unofficial forums. I will not have any troubles dealing with this new problem. The truth will out. It shall set you free. The people who have chosen to side against me are the ones who have a problem. They wanted it to get ugly so it will. That is not my doing. I didn't start this fight but I will finish it and I will do that without the help of any mods or anyone else for that matter. I don't want help and I don't need it, so you don't have to worry about me asking for it.

 

TirunCollimdus

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Ok, and you understand that you will get only TirunCollimdus back, yes? And you must also not irritate people and stuff like that.

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Yes I understand that only TirunCollimdus will be returned to me. The people who don't like me can put me on ignore. If someone does not like me and decides to let me know that they don't then I will put them on ignore. What I say to my friends is my own business however and I won't censor myself in conversations with them. The #ignore command is our friend. :) I will spend a lot less time arguing and a lot more time playing that way and that suits me just fine. Trying not to irritate anyone is not possible. You can't please all the people all the time. You agree with that don't you Entropy? I will just avoid any and all direct confrontations. That is enough isn't it?

 

TirunColldimdus

Edited by TirunCollimdus

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I always do my best at everything I do. I will do my best to try to please everyone all of the time. Perfection is unfortunately not a mortal concept so I can't promise I will succeed. Hope that is good enough. ;)

 

TirunCollimdus

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