Saving Stones

[Tico]

O.o

 

what you think about this formula to saving stones?

 

1 power mix

1 veg mix

2 EME

 

 

some expected a thing cheaper, some didnt expected anything and someone else didnt even know what the heck is a saving stone...

 

Lets discuss a bit about this matter

 

IMO: I tought it a bit to high in level requirement, but life keep going on...

[Joshyboy]

I think the lvl requirment and nexus is right, it shouldn't be able to be made by many people.

 

I was expecting the saving stone to use possibly a serp stone or enrichment stone and a couple of eme. At first look i think the overall cost of these are a bit high, and not sure where the price is going to land.

 

IMO: I think the use to 2 eme is a bit excessive

[Ghrae]

I was expecting artifical 7 and was *hoping* for higher level to make and more xp to make.

 

At the same time, the EMEs (though a surprise) will limit over production (especially with their use in manufacturing). So overall, I like this item.

 

At the same time, I doubt I will make many since getting EMEs is difficult. Will probably buy a couple for when I make CoLs.

 

Conclusion: not what I expected, but is probably more balanced than I expected.

[agis29]

I cant say anything about the formula but artificial 7 is needed as ghrae said.

[bkc56]

I cant say anything about the formula but artificial 7 is needed as ghrae said.

So are you saying the formula page is wrong (yea, I know, wouldn't be the first time)?

 

Saving Stone

Items needed: 1 Refined Vegetal Mixture, 1 Mixture of Power, 2 Enriched Magic Essences

Knowledge needed: Saving Stone

Required Nexuses: Artificial: 5, Magic: 5

Recommended Skills: Crafting: 65

Experience given: Crafting exp: 1000

Food substracted: 60

[Entropy]

The price is not high at all, considering the fact that it can save ingredients worth twice as much..

About nexus 7, I guess that's not a bad idea at all, I'll do it.

[agis29]

I cant say anything about the formula but artificial 7 is needed as ghrae said.

So are you saying the formula page is wrong (yea, I know, wouldn't be the first time)?

 

Saving Stone

Items needed: 1 Refined Vegetal Mixture, 1 Mixture of Power, 2 Enriched Magic Essences

Knowledge needed: Saving Stone

Required Nexuses: Artificial: 5, Magic: 5

Recommended Skills: Crafting: 65

Experience given: Crafting exp: 1000

Food substracted: 60

 

 

No i mean that i cant talk about those matters(formulas) simply cause my knowledge is not enough.

I am keeping my mouth shut about things that i don't know.

The common logic says that what Ghrae said is right cause ghrae is one of the best crafters in game.

Edited August 17, 2007 by agis29

[flinto]

I would have liked it to have not had the eme but require the high nexus and also have a little twist in that you use one on every mix whether you crit fail or not. Far more would then get used and the market would potentially be larger.

 

I like the use of the high lvl pots to make them Now i will have to go and suck up for a for more pot lvls

[Scorpius]

yeh i would say same as agis.

 

im still waiting for the first "You failed to Create and Saving Stone and lost the ingreds" Message in someones

siggy

 

but allover i think the requirements are fair. its not supposed to be and mass production item. maybe i have

overseen something but thats my 2 cents

[Joshyboy]

It will be required for the saving stone.

 

 

You said that in a post about Artificial 7 nexus. So you already came up with the idea to make it 7 o.O or did u forget

 

 

That's a very interesting idea, however the cost associated with those potions is pretty high, and the final product will be around 10K in cost.

 

You also said that about the saving stones, but i guess you changed your mind about them.

 

 

Btw just in case someone takes this the wrong way, i'm not bitching about it at all.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Joshyboy

[SleepyDragon]

I don't have a problem with any part of the forumula even if it will take an extra 2 arti nexus. What I do have a problem with is the low xp considering the investment in nexus and level to be able to make it.

 

To illustrate this, you can make a vial mold at level 31 manu with only arti 3 and get a base xp of 1500. So why does an item required an extra 34 levels and an extra 9 nexus give so much less xp?

[eagleprince]

I don't have a problem with any part of the forumula even if it will take an extra 2 arti nexus. What I do have a problem with is the low xp considering the investment in nexus and level to be able to make it.

 

To illustrate this, you can make a vial mold at level 31 manu with only arti 3 and get a base xp of 1500. So why does an item required an extra 34 levels and an extra 9 nexus give so much less xp?

I'm with Freya on that point

[pepperspray]

I don't have a problem with any part of the forumula even if it will take an extra 2 arti nexus. What I do have a problem with is the low xp considering the investment in nexus and level to be able to make it.

 

To illustrate this, you can make a vial mold at level 31 manu with only arti 3 and get a base xp of 1500. So why does an item required an extra 34 levels and an extra 9 nexus give so much less xp?

 

i concur

[Jarld]

To illustrate this, you can make a vial mold at level 31 manu with only arti 3 and get a base xp of 1500. So why does an item required an extra 34 levels and an extra 9 nexus give so much less xp?

Be careful when you say something like that, it can lead to 2 very different adjustments (higher xp for saving stone - as you expect - or lower xp for vial mold...)

[SleepyDragon]

I don't expect anything from that post, I am just asking the question.

[Entropy]

I don't have a problem with any part of the forumula even if it will take an extra 2 arti nexus. What I do have a problem with is the low xp considering the investment in nexus and level to be able to make it.

 

To illustrate this, you can make a vial mold at level 31 manu with only arti 3 and get a base xp of 1500. So why does an item required an extra 34 levels and an extra 9 nexus give so much less xp?

 

Because the vial mold, pretty much anyone can make it, and there is not much mula in it.

The saving stone, on the other hand, only about 25 people can reliably make it (at a 50% fail rate), so those who can will make a lot of money, because this will be a highly demanded item.

 

 

It will be required for the saving stone.

 

 

You said that in a post about Artificial 7 nexus. So you already came up with the idea to make it 7 o.O or did u forget

 

 

That's a very interesting idea, however the cost associated with those potions is pretty high, and the final product will be around 10K in cost.

 

You also said that about the saving stones, but i guess you changed your mind about them.

 

 

Btw just in case someone takes this the wrong way, i'm not bitching about it at all.

 

Yes, sorry, I forgot about the nexus 7, I will do it this coming update.

As for the 10K total cost, I think it is not much more expensive than 10K now. What's the market price for the potions?

[jamincollins]

As for the 10K total cost, I think it is not much more expensive than 10K now. What's the market price for the potions?

Since there was no use for the potions prior to this, there really isn't a "market price" for them as of yet.

 

EDIT: and since they give so much experience to make, I'm sure there will be those willing to dump them at a lowish price.

Edited August 17, 2007 by jamincollins

[Entropy]

That's my point too. Especially that some people had tons of their ingredients in the storage.

[bkc56]

Yes, sorry, I forgot about the nexus 7, I will do it this coming update.

Why?

 

They're already expensive to make (more so due to losses) and require a VERY high crafting skill level. Why should they also require such a high nexus?

 

Bottom line: please don't. Leave it at 5 and 5 as it is now.

 

 

Edit: Any reduced ingredient cost due to inventory dumping is only a short-term effect. The price of EMEs is already going up. The extract prices will go up too. It's going to take several weeks before the true cost of making these stones settles out. It's to early to say if there will be any profit for the makers of them.

Edited August 17, 2007 by bkc56

[jamincollins]

Any reduced ingredient cost due to inventory dumping is only a short-term effect.

I don't believe the reduced price on the potions is/will only be due to inventory dumping. I believe you're going to see the same thing happen with these potions that happened with SRs. People are going to start making them only for the experience they give and dumping them at or below cost just so they can keep getting the experience.

[greymage]

To answer your question about prices, Entropy, those are market prices now

- refined vegetal and mixture of power about 3.5Kgc

- eme about 6Kgc

total ingredients = 19Kgc

 

saving stone 25-30Kgc.

 

I know there is speculation on emes, and on the stones too, but on a product made in few exemplaries, you have to include the loss factor in price.

 

If we, potters lower our price, it doubt it will go under 3K each, and for eme i never saw it under 4K, which makes 14K ingredients.

 

For the crafter part, if he gets the risk of loosing 14K ingredients, he will not sell for less than 20-25K

 

All this is a little far from your original goal of a 10K product.

 

Maybe whith only one eme?

 

Or, as i suggested in your original post on that product : 1 mixture of power + 2 refined vegetal?

 

I really hope you take this in consideration, because it would make some interesting work for good potters and crafters

 

greymage

[rmiles]

Please pardon my ignorance. Is this stone a one time use thing that you have in your inventory or will it have many usages?

[Ghrae]

Yes, sorry, I forgot about the nexus 7, I will do it this coming update.

Why?

 

They're already expensive to make (more so due to losses) and require a VERY high crafting skill level. Why should they also require such a high nexus?

 

Bottom line: please don't. Leave it at 5 and 5 as it is now.

 

I actually like the higher nexus requirement. Why? Because it separates the serious mixers from those trying to do everything and not willing to put the pick points into the skill.

 

Plus, to a small extent, it reduces how many people can make the item. So instead of everyone selling Portland rings under the cost to make them b/c they train on the item... this allows people to make 'em as they need 'em and not worry about the too many flooding the market.

 

Perfect solution? No. But I think it's better than leaving the nexus at 5

 

Please pardon my ignorance. Is this stone a one time use thing that you have in your inventory or will it have many usages?

 

The stone is good for ONE critical failure (where you would normally lose ingredients). However, if you mix 10 times and never fail, the stone stays in inventory.

[Stricken]

sorry for being the n00b but what exactly does a saving stone do?? o.O i haven't been on in ages

[shallara]

Basically a rosto for mixers.

With a Saving stone in inventory, mixing a high cost item, if you get a crit fail (ingreds lost), instead of losing ingredients, the saving stone gets used, and you get to keep the ingredients.