Encouraging local chat and use of more areas

[KarenRei]

Problem: People don't use local chat very often. You can see a mob of people and know that a good portion of them are probably chatting, but rarely do they say things locally. It's strange. All of these people, but no talking. They all use private messages, chat lines, etc. What's even weirder is when one side of a conversation talks normally, but the other side uses PMs: you get half a conversation. Related to this is all of the pretty areas in EL that are essentially unused -- not an NPC to their name, and typically only ever visited by people exploring the map for the first time. You see podiums or altars with seating area around them that nobody touches. Houses, halls, etc, all left empty. Why? Because nobody ever needs a private meeting area. They all just // and talk to the last person they were speaking to, or use a chat line. There's an additional disadvantage to all of this private chat: it doesn't encourage people to just "join conversations" that interest them like people do in real life -- a way people meet new people who they normally never would have.

 

If others don't consider the lack of local chat and lack of people visiting these vacant areas to be a problem, then no need to read on to the solution.

 

Potential solution: This was used in a MUD I used to play (long ago) to encourage people to talk normally and to go off to private areas if they wanted a private chat. There was a magic cost associated with private messages and most chat lines. After all, you're communicating "magically" with others across great distances, so why shouldn't it take ethereal points? Not many -- just enough to be relevant. A PM could take one point, or even only have a random chance of taking one. The key point is that there is *some* cost, no matter how small, so people find *some* incentive to speak in local chat. Different chat lines would have different costs. The market line would be the most expensive -- perhaps two or three points. The newbie line would be free or very cheap (it's heavily moderated, so it wouldn't be abused). And so on.

 

This would be extremely easy to write -- just a few lines of serverside code. I think it would be a nice benefit. What do others think?

 

(Disclaimer: I searched to see if anyone had posted this suggestion before, and I didn't find anything. However, I'm not perfect; if there already is a thread, just let me know and I can tack a "Me, too!" onto the list.)

[WildIce]

People really do use Local chat alot...

If you think they arent, just say hi in local chat and conversation starts

 

Mana to pm ? what if you have no food and no more mana? (doesnt happen alot, but who knows...)

Sorry i think it wont work.

Chatting and the game itself should not be mixed.

[Zamirah]

I never read local chat, when I sit in a storage do I mix and have storage, inventory and manu bar open.

They cover most, so only way is to go to wiew console, it mean I have to stop mixing every time I do this.

If not will I get a lot of green spam telling what I created.

So when I mix in a storage do I not see any chat but watch tv or read.

 

And I would like the green messages to be removed, I think it would help a lot.

[2coolfool]

i always mix in console, with all the aformentioned windows opened, along with a bag window. check your options

[Zamirah]

Mixing is boring and there is a life outside EL.

 

 

Well, what I mean is, I usually don't write PMs or GMs in storages.

Edited March 21, 2007 by morto

[KarenRei]

People really do use Local chat alot...

If you think they arent, just say hi in local chat and conversation starts

 

That's part of the problem (in my opinion), though. You have to deliberately start up a local chat; conversations that most people carry on are kept private, even when there's no good reason for them to be private. You can be in the exact same place, and most people will still PM. Heck, I usually go around saying "Wark" or "Excelcior!" randomly, just trying to break the silence. Also, if there's a cost (even a tiny one), people will tend to go places to meet, making more use of the areas of the map that are normally neglected.

 

Mana to pm ? what if you have no food and no more mana? (doesnt happen alot, but who knows...)

 

Doesn't happen a lot, and such a situation wouldn't just randomly occur. Ethereal points don't disappear on their own.

Edited March 21, 2007 by KarenRei

[LaNora]

the biggest reason i talk mostly in pm or gm is because i do have a life outside of el , and same as in real life i do watch what i say in public, not necessarily that i'm talking dirty or cussing, but some things i am either not comfortable talking about in a group of strangers or some of the things i talk about are none of anyones business except who i am talking to. and on top of that if i do decide to talk adult or cuss someone out, there's always the possibility or depending on crowd size, the probability of a child being there.

 

don't get me wrong, i do talk in local sometimes, but i am usually at a storage with no one there, so....unless i'm talking to myself (hehe like THAT would ever happen, lol) it's usually by gm or pm.

 

it's not really too hard to get talk started, just walk up and say 'ello!

[KarenRei]

So in RL, you pm people? Really, though -- in RL, when was the last time you saw a crowd of people, and it was dead silence -- and not because of a special occasion? Yet, in EL, you see silent crowds all the time -- everywhere you go. Hearing people talk is the exception, not the rule.

 

(if this is an unpopular suggestion, don't worry about it -- I was just throwing it out there)

Edited March 21, 2007 by KarenRei

[WildIce]

Well it is a nice idea

But forcing everyone in EL to speak local chat, I dunno, maybe some people like pm and #gm and channels and maybe some like local, why then give advantage to ppl who like local chat?

just my idea though about it though. And i also fully agree with LaNora

[KarenRei]

Well, at an average rate of, say, half an ethereal point per pm, it's not like it's forcing anyone to do anything. Encouraging, yes. Forcing? No.

 

Thanks for all of your input.

Edited March 21, 2007 by KarenRei

[LaNora]

So in RL, you pm people?

 

no, irl if i am not comfortable talking i say nothing or talk very low.

 

i'm not saying its a bad idea, just giving you my reason for being quiet in local, its just how i am.

 

in gm or pm tho, look out! lol

[Pyewacket]

So in RL, you pm people?

 

I have done on several occasions. Using a mobile to text something to a friend I am also with in a crowded situation with, where I have sensibly kept the comment I made private to us only has proven quite useful many a time. And as far as I am aware this method is used the world over in similar situations.

[KarenRei]

And costs a few pennies, right? Sort of like spending half an ethereal point, right?

[Pyewacket]

Nope, same network, free texts.

 

Though I am sure you would feel more comfortable with teh analogy of getting detention when the teacher catches a 12 yr old passing a note onto her mates in teh classroom.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Pyewacket

[Sayre]

I can just see all the socialites running around wearing CoM's and srs so they can just keep on yapping

 

I played a MUD where you had to do a quest and get an item which allowed you to PM and do remote emotes, however the quest was fairly trivial. Only the absolute noobs in game couldn't do it. and there was no "cost" to the character after.

 

I am interested in how this idea might develop. It might be better for it to take food to pm rather than take eth points. Some people just aren't chatty though, so all those people in sto may just be sitting there mixing

[Lotheneil]

Local chat isn't used? It is, and quite a lot... In fact it's used more than I'd like it to, try sitting in MM or NC storage for a while and you'll see. I'm using pm / #gm deriberately even when a person I'm talking to sits right next to me, especially when we're talking in polish. Too much local chat spam (especially multilingual) just makes me mad, and I think it's the same for most other people.

To sum up: leave things as they are now please.

[guidera]

I usually speak a lot in local at storages but people give out to me and make me take it to pm ^^

[trollson]

Its interesting to consider how the game would change if there was only local chat:

• meeting places would become important, face-to-face gatherings.
  
• people would have to travel to find merchants
  
• devices allowing remote communication would become useful, whether palantir or post.
  

Right now, there would be value in having areas where non-local chat is disabled; its almost essential for quest maps ("#gm I'm at the McGuffin, what do I do now?").

 

With ready access to global chat, other than for combat, you can play the game mostly on console and map view (walking, mixing, harvesting, talking). While this is convenient, it does feel unsatisfactory; its quite rare for me to actually meet any guildmate in the flesh (or pixel), but that could just be me.

 

Options for discouraging global chat?

• Charging mana means that mages can be the most talkative; food points may be more "democratic".
  
• Alteratively, put a lag on non-local chat (requiries buffering, so may be a resource hog on the server).
  
• Have NPCs listen and responding with titbits of information when key phrases are matched (this could be delegated to "NPC clients"). Part of the rumour mill (see thread in sig.).
  

I doubt the game could accomodate such a change though. Its easy to add things that make player's lives simpler, but taking stuff away to make them work harder would cause a virtual riot.

 

That said, an easy and convenient life doesn't give much opportunity to be satisfying.

Edited March 21, 2007 by trollson

[Atlantis]

i think we should just leave it as it is, qtf..

[KarenRei]

I could definitely go for a food cost. I suggested ethereal so that it wouldn't be a hit to people manufacturing, but either way would work. Note that I don't suggest outright *disabling* non-local chat -- just adding a very small incentive to the use of local chat. Small incentives can go a long way.

 

Note the people complaining about storages being too spammy. That's another *benefit* I didn't think of. The devs have long tried to keep people from clustering around the storages. This would be another incentive to not hang around right at a storage forever. Worst case, if it bugs people, the range of local chat could be decreased, and a longer range #shout could be added. Step half a screen away from sto, and you no longer hear normal chat -- only shouts. It wouldn't take much coding effort at all. If one didn't bother with that, the only coding effort would be to decrement the non-local-chatting char's food or ethereal points -- just a few lines.

 

By the way, trollson, what you said is exactly what I was thinking:

 

its quite rare for me to actually meet any guildmate in the flesh (or pixel), but that could just be me.

 

Let me be the first to agree with that.

[The_Piper]

I dont like that idea, because i just want to listen to some channels and see whats going on there and not be spammed by local chat in various langugaes i dont even understand.

 

So i really like it when ppl take conversations to PM and dont spam other ppl's screens with lines of text nobody can understand (except the speakers of that language).

 

So, from me, my personal point of view, its a "NO".

 

And just my 2 cents again

 

Piper

[Pyewacket]

Not to mention you would be a lot easier to find in your competitions if those around you who found you, all used local for chatting

[ttlanhil]

I think the big problem is... look how much '1' is in EL. I'll explain. in some games, you might have 20k health points (damage is the same scale, it's just a matter of decimals)... think back to when you were a lower level player, and consider how few ethereal points you had... or, yes, how few you still do. one EP/mana per message would be used up pretty quick... so people wouldn't chat when fighting and they may need the EP, for example (makes us less social, since for the most part you fight when you're the only one at a monster spawn)

also... how do you decide which messages are exempt? and if you don't think any should be, consider the cases of people helping others with EL... mods are an obvious example, but they're not the only ones who help people... do the rest of us, even if we have more expertise in an area then the mods (after all the code I've looked through, I've seen a few obscure things that most people haven't heard of) have to step back or lose EP (or food)?

what about the people who've found good reason to have a food level below zero (and there are some), are they then unable to have any socialisation?

what about times when it really should be on a channel, and not just a part of the message? the other languages mentioned about is an example here

what about when the chatting on a channel is quite active? (there have been times on @@20 that I've been in several convos, and even typing quickly it can be hard to keep up)

do you differentiate between long/short messages? if yes, people will try to minimise the length of their message and make it harder to read (the 1+3+3+7 = 14 year old people make it bad enough already). if no, people will stack several replies into one post

Right now, there would be value in having areas where non-local chat is disabled; its almost essential for quest maps ("#gm I'm at the McGuffin, what do I do now?").

"#gm okay, I'm about to go do the quest, turn on teamspeak/etc / my jabber/msn/yahoo/icq/aim/gadu is ..." I doubt people wouldn't find a way around it... and pushing that outside of EL probably isn't much of a benefit Edited March 22, 2007 by ttlanhil

[redsoxlovr10]

I honestly like this idea, one flaw that I see however is that if you want to pm people to meet at a public spot and your outa mana, then ur screwed.

 

But I think that every pm you send should cost half a mana point or even a full one. Pm's recieved should cost nothing, channels and guild chat should be free. or at least any private chats that you start should cost you 1 mana point.

 

Or maybe if this is to much of a negative aspect, perhaps once your attack is over 17 this takes effect, much like the free healing from the tut npc. Or perhaps once you have your will attribute at 10 or higher it will take effect. This way there it would filter out newbies that don't quite understand whats going on yet.

 

Maybe this could have effects with col/com, when wearing col u loose 1 hp for every private chat started, and with com 1 mana point for every pm started.

 

 

Very nice and creative idea, would certainly add a more challenging aspect to the game.

[KarenRei]

1) Newbies: My test char is a noob, and has 32 EP. At "half" an EP per message, even if I could PM once every five seconds, that's be three minutes of this intense conversation through pms to drain myself. If one still thinks that's a problem, then exempt noobs as redsox suggests.

 

2) "people trying to cheat the system by merging messages": I've been on a mud where this type of system was the case. It doesn't happen. And they had a longer max message length.

 

3) I already suggested what messages would be exempt. The noob line would be exempt. The market line would be extra expensive. Guild lines would be cheap or free. Generic chat lines would be very cheap. PMs would be 1/2 or 1.

 

4) How much is "1": That's not a problem. When sitting, you average 1.5 HP per turn. It's random whether you heal one or two; it's effectively fractional. Likewise, it could be random whether you spend 0 or 1. You can have "half" EP or food usage.

Edited March 22, 2007 by KarenRei