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LilBear

Empty Vials manuable and Mercury from Cinnabar

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well i have made 200 vials, and still on my first vial mold, my crafting is way low, lots of failures and still going for now.

 

my alch is about a 45 and i have made 450 mercury so far and still going!! so far i have had good results.

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I was able to make 77 vials before the mold broke I would say more but as a potioner I'm used to this I used to play this game because I like the game now I play because I like the people in the game. I do appreciate the opportunity for that. Selestious

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I'm afraid i didnt make any vial mold or alembic yet.

I bought the books and read them but more because i am a "book addict" than for immediate interest.

Knowing now the fail rate, i think that i'll wait some time before using these tools for my vials or mercury.

I love reading books - about 190 read now - and they take me a lot of gc.

I must be carefull on my economic balance to buy more books ;)

The idea is very nice, 4 new books including cinnabar :P

 

grey

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I think this is a great "backup" option for potioners. It's nice to have a tool in storage you can pull out and whip up some vials with quickly when you find yourself short of them. So far, I've made 250 vials with no problems, carrot still going strong and gained a crafting level from it too. :D Thanks, Ent, for giving potioners another alternative for vials! Heck, I'm still thrilled with the empty vial seller that was put in a while ago. When I started playing back in August, it was a real challenge to get my hands on empty vials without an incredible amount of work. Now it's easier and a lot more fun. I love potioning!!! :wacko:

 

Thanks again,

Llyn;)

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Reduced the food required for vials to 5.

Zantos sells and buys in higher quantities.

Considerably decreased the chance of the alembic and vial mold to break (from 10 in 10K to 6 vor the vial mold, and 7 for the alembic).

 

Thank you once again. ;)

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Just adding my "results" from 2 vial molds I made and used (before break rate decrease with last update)

322

629

didn't count failures+critical it should be around 400+800 tries

I agree with Llynara with the way she/he thinks about it

It's good to be able to make vials instead of being "forced" to buy them only

 

Ofcourse I would like molds lasted more

but I pushed my luck actualy trying to see when they will break making vials all the time while I had molds

instead of making when I needed or was in the mood for crafting exp (like using other "cheaper" tools for manu or potions)

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Thread has been quiet for a while, but I just finished my effort to make my own mercury for 1k spirit essences (leveling up magic skill...):

 

Cost for this project:

2 PP's for nexus (mining Cinnabar)

20,000 for Cinnabar Mining book. (paid for by the lilac bush)

20,000 for Mercury Extraction book (paid for by hauling coal)

30,000 pages worth of "reading".

2k Cinnabar (no gc, harvested myself.)

1k Energy Essence for Mercury (no gc, I harvested ingred and made these...)

7k for 1st Alembic. Broke after 610 mercury (305 uses)

3.5k + EFE for 2nd Alembic. Broke after 290 mercury (145 uses)

Throw in another 3k - 4k for feasting pots etc, and a weeks worth of time.

 

My opinion:

The XP from harvesting cinnabar was good, but, it's so slow that I think I could have done better going for straight XP with many other things (I'm harv 47 btw.) The ore doesn't have very much value on the market...

The XP from making mercury is very good. Unfortunately I didn't get much of it....

I could have spent the 54k on something more durable (CoL, ess for getting the magic XP, etc)....

At 7k I doubt I'll buy another alembic unless they become more reliable, so the 20k invested in that book is probably wasted.

Unless a market forms for cinnabar ore (doubtful, it's 1.5 - 2 gc right now ) that 20k is also now lost.

 

Overall, I'm dissapointed. DIY stuff should be rewarding...

 

P.S. To those of you who say I was just "unlucky" with those two, your probably a traveling alembic salesman....

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Yes, unlucky.

The chance for it to break now is something like 1.5K uses (on average) or abour 3K mercury-failures.

How many failures did you have anyway?

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7k for 1st Alembic. Broke after 610 mercury (305 uses)

3.5k + EFE for 2nd Alembic. Broke after 290 mercury (145 uses)

Wow, not very cheap! :icon13:

I don't know who sell you the alembics but he did a VERY good deal...

I'm sure you can find them for cheaper than that without any problem. Anyway if you ask me, I'll sell them to you for much cheaper...

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I think the vial mold is a great concept and am delighted to see that it is in the game. But the breakability of the item is a real concern.

 

I recently bought a vial mold and made about 50 vials before it broke. I didn't count failures but they were less than the successes, maybe 25 or so.

 

For an item like a mortar and pestle or a ring mold, it would be no big deal. But for an item that uses EFE there is an expectation of higher quality. Which makes me wonder why the Vial Mold is so expensive to make in the first place. An item that is used to make something worth 5gc should either be much cheaper or very hard to break.

 

Consider that the vial mold is still essentially a low level item, in terms of use - the recommended level for making vials is CRA 14. Other tools that are used to make items at this level cost at least one order of magnitude less, such as a mortar & pestle or a ring mold. Furthermore, use of the Vial Mold still produces a net loss in cash when used.

 

The use of an Alembic, on the other hand, involves a very high level harvest item (cinnabar) and a higher level skill (ALC 25). It also grants 5 times the experience. Furthermore, with the use of an Alembic it is possible to make a profit. It does make sense that the Alembic would be an expensive item of use to high level players, so the need for an EFE is perfectly justified.

 

But the cost of the Vial Mold in comparison to its lifespan is a real issue. What are the implications of it?

 

It really means one of two things:

A: Crafting is meant to be extremely difficult to do, so players must effectively throw away money to get good at it. This seems a bit mean-spirited.

B: The Vial Mold needs to be adjusted to reflect it's actual use and value.

 

I like the suggestion of allowing the Vial Mold to have a "damaged" version; this makes sense for an EFE item. If so it shouldn't be too hard to fix.

 

If the issue is a matter of getting gold out of the game, remember that the Vial Mold itself won't accomplish that, since it will be sold amongst players. I totally approve of getting gold out of the game, but I think this might be better accomplished py pulling gold out at the top of the scale rather than at the low end. New players need to buy all kinds of things... tools, books, cloaks, etc. This gold will usually find it's way into the hands of the big players, who will sell their moster drops and manufactured items to players who are newer and cannot get them on their own. So the gold coins in the game will tend to gravitate to the top.

 

So means need to be made for high level players to spend their gold. Gold already disappears fast if you are a low level player.

 

Peet

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Entropy:

Not sure what the failure rate was. I didn't keep track. I did get some full runs per feasting pot, but got some full run failures too (i.e. all failure/success for 1 feasting pot.) Based on what I have left for cinnabar and energy ess, the lost ingred amount was pretty low. I'm alc 37...

 

If I was just unlucky, then maybe it's worth another shot, but even at 5k ea + all of the harvesting time for the cinnabar, + the harvesting/alch'ing for the energy ess + feasting pots....Ouchie. I can pretty reliably make 3k FE to buy 1k mercury in an afternoon, so I can't see how this would reward a DIY effort without huge harv/alc levels.

 

The really weird part is that I was doing this just because I like making my own consumables. I was making 1k spirit ess.... LOL I just went to the magic shop and they are only 9gc each. That's 1gc less than the mercury alone!?! Guess I'll be buying those from now on ;-)

 

Maybe raise the alch level for mercury to keep us humble n00b's out of trouble? I saw the alc 25 requirement and thought \o/ I can make mercury!

 

Alternatively, how about setting a basic ROI on tools so that the break counter doesn't start until a set usage amount? Say 1k, or 500, or whatever, for an Alembic? Just an idea...

 

I haven't used the "I Eat Dead Ppl" perk or tried turning green (red ;-) from mushrooms yet, so maybe I'm missing some savings that would make it more cost effective. Toying with the idea of spending the PP's on IEDP, but just spent 2 and they are starting to come pretty slowly at OA 56.

 

Don't want to sound whiny, just observations/suggestions/ideas. If you leave it as is, I'll wait til alc 50 or 60 to try it again. I enjoy EL a great deal. Kudo's and a big thanks to you, Roja, and all of the developers for the best free game out there.

 

Schmurk:

Thanks, I appreciate the offer. I may take you up on the offer and try a couple more in the future, but I'm out of gc for the time being (....um, actually for a while....). I fished around on market and did get a couple of quotes for 5k (where were they last week?!... ;-)

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broke one after 514 vials.. :P

 

well i for one won't be making vials again :P

They are designed to break about 1 in 1K, but of course it can break with the first vial, or with the 5Kth, depending on your luck. The chances might be adjusted in the future, as with everything else.

Wondering meanwhile, are any data known about this, like how many broken vial molds in game with how many vials made?

 

Especially with the current EFE prices, I think the general concensus is that making vials is a pretty expensive hobby. The last break rate I've seen in an update post was 1/2000, I don't think I am that lucky on average, but I'm wondering how things are in general. With the ingredients needed making vials is imo quite costly compared to buying them from NPC. Are there any more plans for adjustments based on game-wide data?

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so from ur #'s its what 1/3k?

 

since vials are 5gc per from npc thats decent profit, if you sold them you could prob get 7gc per which puts you @ 21kgc from a 6-7kgc tool

Edited by Stricken

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Guest ohmygod

I have broke 3 vial molds in 10267 vials

 

Nice.

 

I broke 1 yesterday after 300 or so. Though it was not a good decsion to start crafting during high break day thing. Think i will stick with cotton for a bit longer which is free xp imo.

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I think when EFEs cost less, the high break rates (1/2k or 1/1k) wasn't so bad. But with EFEs at 6500, those rates are no longer viable.

 

I bought 5 vial molds. Made 4070 vials before they all broke. I have other things to train on, so it's not the end of the world, but I do agree that perhaps it's time to look at the break rate again.

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I made 15219 vials, broke 4 vial molds.

And 9896 mercury, broke 1 alembic.

 

Seem that mercury give many critical fails, even with high level, maybe 1/200.

Vials less, maybe 1/500, even vith a much lower level.

Edited by Zamirah

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pfff i bought my precious vial mold for 5,5k iirc, and it broke the same day after i made 155 (!!!) vials. i just had it for an hour or 2. that made me so sad that i'm still afraid to buy a new mold.

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IMO, you should use these tools only when stars are with you. Has anyone tried using them during good astro hours and recorded stats? I would be very interested in results.

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IMO, you should use these tools only when stars are with you. Has anyone tried using them during good astro hours and recorded stats? I would be very interested in results.

I use them only in good astro hours, but one broke after less than 200 vials.

Even with that do I think I'm lucky with 15219 vials and 4 broken vial molds.

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I dont remember my whole history in breaking vials, but the last experience was really painful...

 

I wanted to make 1k vials, broke the first vial mold after ~300, the second after 1 (!!!) and the third after ~100...

 

Haven't made any vials since then... :)

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